Current Philadelphia Members

[chin_gigante]

Because I focused so much just on Philly for a long time it took a while for me to realise how remarkable it is that they so far have had 16 members flip. Especially now that two of those members appear to have worn wires to induction ceremonies. 16 member sources (plus Riccobene and Scafidi when they were active CIs) leads to a lot of information, especially for a family that size.

[chin_gigante]

Especially when that group of 16 includes a boss, an underboss, five captains and two former captains

[B.]

They had a well-placed CI in the early 1980s as well. I've posted my suspicions before, but whoever it was, they were providing up-to-date info from within the Ciancaglini crew.

[HoagieNose]

It’s time to for Philly to vent members better, or check
Everyone for wires constantly. Can’t be having this all
The time.

[jmack]

They had a well-placed CI in the early 1980s as well. I've posted my suspicions before, but whoever it was, they were providing up-to-date info from within the Ciancaglini crew.

I truly appreciate your work B, can you point me to this thread? Your suspicions are usually on the mark.

[TallGuy19]

It’s time to for Philly to vent members better, or check
Everyone for wires constantly. Can’t be having this all
The time.

It's not like they have a huge pool of candidates to choose from. They apparently have enough people to keep the family fully staffed, but, as Pogo pointed out, the average age of their associates gets progressively higher with each indictment. As the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.

[Ivan]

They had a well-placed CI in the early 1980s as well. I've posted my suspicions before, but whoever it was, they were providing up-to-date info from within the Ciancaglini crew.

I truly appreciate your work B, can you point me to this thread? Your suspicions are usually on the mark.

Seconded. I want to see this thread too!

[Pogo The Clown]

Here you guys go. The informant was most likely Pat "The Cat" Spirito. Also wasn't there a third member informant in the 1960s besides Riccobene and Rocco Scsfidi? I don't think he was ever identified.


viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6713&p=170924&hili ... to#p170924

[B.]

They had a well-placed CI in the early 1980s as well. I've posted my suspicions before, but whoever it was, they were providing up-to-date info from within the Ciancaglini crew.

I truly appreciate your work B, can you point me to this thread? Your suspicions are usually on the mark.

Thanks for the kind word. It's come up a couple times, but here is the most recent:

- These accounts show there were FBI informants close to Ciancaglini in the early 1980s receiving information that would later be corroborated by witnesses like Caramandi and Delgiorno.

- We shouldn't assume all three informants are separate people. The FBI was known to pretend one informant was actually multiple informants in order to further mask the identity of the CI. It seems unlikely there were multiple FBI informants close to Ciancaglini during this short period.

- Informant 1 stands out. It says he knew Nick Scarfo, Joe Ciancaglini, and Pat Spirito, but then mentions hearing info on the hierarchy specifically from Ciancaglini and Scarfo without referring to Spirito. It suggests the informant could be a made member given that the boss and a captain told him who held official titles in the family. Informant reports will often refer to the informant himself as someone the informant is close to. This informant was close to Spirito and Ciancaglini, knew the formal hierarchy from the boss himself, and appears to have had firsthand knowledge of the family's "shakedown" operations which were being supervised by Ciancaglini using Spirito and a small crew of associates. I'm sure many people on the street knew this information at the time, but Spirito already has some red flags.

- I've previously suspected Spirito was an informant for several reasons. For one, an LE agent (FBI?) gave an account in which he said a made member of the Philly family was informing in the early 1980s but the informant was murdered. Despite being a willing participant in the Calabrese murder in 1981, Nick Caramandi described how Pat Spirito became unwilling to help with later murder contracts during the Riccobene war and would spend most of his time drinking and disparaging the leadership. Spirito had also been convicted on RICO charges in 1982.

- Spirito fits the profile of someone who would be susceptible to cooperation. With the agent's info about a member informant being killed around the time of Spirito's murder and the above excerpts from an informant close to Ciancaglini and Spirito who knew about their activities, it lends itself to the possibility that Spirito was an informant. If the FBI did split one informant into multiple informants for this report, that would make sense as informant two had knowledge of murder contracts during the Riccobene war. We know from Caramandi that Spirito was aware of many murder plots during the war and was given some of these contracts by Ciancaglini himself.

+ I didn't mention it in that post, but the fact that they included this information in the senate reports is an indication that they were not worried about compromising the informant(s). If the informant had been alive and on the street at the time of the senate hearing, Scarfo and Ciancaglini could have deduced who it was based on the info provided. It appears the government wasn't worried about this risk.

The informant was certainly not one of the identified CIs like Rocco Scafidi or Harry Riccobene, as Rocco Scafidi was in Arizona where he would die in the early 1980s, while Riccobene was on the opposite side of the war.

[Ivan]

D'ya think it's possible that part of the reason Spirito was killed was because someone figured out he was ratting somehow?

[B.]

I don't think so. Caramandi was involved with Spirito's death every step of the way and he never mentioned any suspicions. Caramandi beefed on Spirito for deliberately avoiding hits and he was spending his time drunk disparaging the admin. I think that behavior could have been a byproduct of him ratting, but it doesn't seem to have crossed Caramandi's mind.

Along those lines, Chucky Merlino told Nick Caramandi they wanted to kill Harry Riccobene because he was an FBI informant. Caramandi said this was bullshit, but we know now Riccobene was an informant. Did Scarfo and Merlino somehow learn the truth? Or did they invent a fake reason to kill him that coincidentally ended up true? I feel like this gets glossed over when it's actually very interesting that their accusation was correct. Would be a good question for Leonetti.

[jmack]

I don't think so. Caramandi was involved with Spirito's death every step of the way and he never mentioned any suspicions. Caramandi beefed on Spirito for deliberately avoiding hits and he was spending his time drunk disparaging the admin. I think that behavior could have been a byproduct of him ratting, but it doesn't seem to have crossed Caramandi's mind.

Along those lines, Chucky Merlino told Nick Caramandi they wanted to kill Harry Riccobene because he was an FBI informant. Caramandi said this was bullshit, but we know now Riccobene was an informant. Did Scarfo and Merlino somehow learn the truth? Or did they invent a fake reason to kill him that coincidentally ended up true? I feel like this gets glossed over when it's actually very interesting that their accusation was correct. Would be a good question for Leonetti.

I agree with you B. He got lucky by killing Spirito, probably for the wrong reasons. They made up Riccobene being an informant (obviously he was, but we have no proof of that leaking to them). Even a broke clock is right twice a day I guess... if you think about it, Scarfo was lucky to last as long as he did.

[Pmac2]

Was harry r. Given information when he was on the street like Greg scrape? I seen some files were they interviewed him in jail and it read to me he was kinda shooting the shit. He was only talking in general. He could have been boss. Ange wasn't boss material ect. I don't think he was informing when he was out in the 70tys early 80tys. He was indicted on rico charges with ange. And a few others. If he was a cooperater or ci he would have been left out the indictment like Steve flemmi and bulger in the horse fixing indictment in Boston in 1979. They were all over the indictment but left out cause they were CIs

[chin_gigante]

Was harry r. Given information when he was on the street like Greg scrape? I seen some files were they interviewed him in jail and it read to me he was kinda shooting the shit. He was only talking in general. He could have been boss. Ange wasn't boss material ect. I don't think he was informing when he was out in the 70tys early 80tys. He was indicted on rico charges with ange. And a few others. If he was a cooperater or ci he would have been left out the indictment like Steve flemmi and bulger in the horse fixing indictment in Boston in 1979. They were all over the indictment but left out cause they were CIs

He was an informant while he was in prison during the 60s

[chin_gigante]

Awesome comprehensive breakdown. Still have to give you credit on finding that Bocchino relation -- had never heard of that. Do you know the exact connection? Strange how Bocchino was murdered the same year Massimino came into the organization.

Got another free trial on newspapers.com and stumbled across the article I got this information from:

Philadelphia Inquirer. 07 Jan 1993..jpg