Andrew Scoppa

[OcSleeper]

So I just started reading these posts yesterday and just finished now. I have a few questions and hope someone could answer.

Maybe I missed these or just didn't understand but who killed Nick Sr? I got confused here because I thought in the excerpt Scoppa admitted to/having him killed himself. But then people said Desjardins and Montagna were behind it.
I also didn't see who killed Roger Valiquette. Did Desjardins kill him for retribution? Where were Valiquettes loyalties, Rocco Sollecito?

And finally what was the reason behind Magi killing Nick Jr? To my understanding he was a business man with connections to the underworld but didn't really have anyone looking out/protecting him. He had to of known taking out the Dons son wouldn't end well for him.

[Frank]

So I just started reading these posts yesterday and just finished now. I have a few questions and hope someone could answer.

Maybe I missed these or just didn't understand but who killed Nick Sr? I got confused here because I thought in the excerpt Scoppa admitted to/having him killed himself. But then people said Desjardins and Montagna were behind it.
I also didn't see who killed Roger Valiquette. Did Desjardins kill him for retribution? Where were Valiquettes loyalties, Rocco Sollecito?

And finally what was the reason behind Magi killing Nick Jr? To my understanding he was a business man with connections to the underworld but didn't really have anyone looking out/protecting him. He had to of known taking out the Dons son wouldn't end well for him.

I didnt get that impression he was involved in Nick Sr death. I thought he implied that Montagna was behind it.

[OcSleeper]

[/quote]
I didnt get that impression he was involved in Nick Sr death. I thought he implied that Montagna was behind it.
[/quote]

In the passage posted here to me it seemed like it did say Scoppa was the one behind Nick Sr murder. I'll post the quotes that made me believe it's Scoppa.

"Then it was Vito's father's turn on November 10, 2010. That one too, Kenny wasn't the one who did. The murder of old Nick was also quite a shock."

Do I know who shot? Yes. Besides, this guy is still alive.

Throughout that time, the younger kids saw that fear in the veterans and they felt it too. They were all scared. And they all called a certain person… a certain body… to come to their rescue.
They saw this certain person as a potential Savior. This was a person Kenny wanted to kill too. But at the time, that person couldn't get involved because he was on parole and had conditions to meet if he didn't want to be brought back to the penitentiary.

Much to his disappointment, by the way ... And while saying this, Scoppa points his index finger to his chest so that we understand that this" certain person "was him, even if he does not want to identify himself clearly. on our recording."


Like I said maybe I'm misunderstanding but I read that as a pretty clear confession. So if anyone can shine light on this and my other questions. Point out if I'm missing something here

[Frank]

I didnt get that impression he was involved in Nick Sr death. I thought he implied that Montagna was behind it.
[/quote]

In the passage posted here to me it seemed like it did say Scoppa was the one behind Nick Sr murder. I'll post the quotes that made me believe it's Scoppa.

"Then it was Vito's father's turn on November 10, 2010. That one too, Kenny wasn't the one who did. The murder of old Nick was also quite a shock."

Do I know who shot? Yes. Besides, this guy is still alive.

Throughout that time, the younger kids saw that fear in the veterans and they felt it too. They were all scared. And they all called a certain person… a certain body… to come to their rescue.
They saw this certain person as a potential Savior. This was a person Kenny wanted to kill too. But at the time, that person couldn't get involved because he was on parole and had conditions to meet if he didn't want to be brought back to the penitentiary.

Much to his disappointment, by the way ... And while saying this, Scoppa points his index finger to his chest so that we understand that this" certain person "was him, even if he does not want to identify himself clearly. on our recording."


Like I said maybe I'm misunderstanding but I read that as a pretty clear confession. So if anyone can shine light on this and my other questions. Point out if I'm missing something here
[/quote]

I thought he was identifying himself as the certain person that was going to be the savior. But couldnt get involved because of parole. Then pointed to himself. Also my thinking was just because he knows or thinks he knows who shot Nick sr, doesnt mean he did it or was involved. But Im going to read this over again, to me the way he explains things is confusing.

[Frank]

.He got 6 years in 2004, so I believe he was the one that didn't want to get involved because of parole. I could be reading this wrong. But I was under the impression that he turned on the Rizzutos somewhere inbetween Vito dying and Giordano being released.

[Tonyd621]

I appreciate you continuing to share these excerpts, Cabrini.

• Who are these Ontario people, if not Ndrangheta? Seriously, like did he really make all those trips to see the Violis? Or was it his fellow Castellemarese Scarcella?

- Who knows which Sicilian mafia figures might have been under the radar in Ontario along with Buffalo members and 'Ndrangheta. We don't know who the made Bonanno members were in Ontario during the 1960s/70s or how and if they maintained membership there later on. Montagna had a wide network of potential contacts when you consider the different connections he had and how many unknown unknowns there are.

- Giovanni Inzerillo and Filippo Casamento went to Toronto in 2004 to meet Michele Modica and Michele Marrese from Casteldaccia. Salvatore Calautti was supposedly in the center of the conflict when Modica went to war with Pietro Scarcella in Ontario later that year. Calautti was then linked with Montagna / Desjardins during the Montreal war.

- Calautti was connected to Sicilians in Quebec and Ontario though he was a Calabrian with alleged 'Ndrangheta connections. Decent indication, along with what we already know, that these circles cross over. Think to what Pennisi said in his recent interview, how the mafia and 'Ndrangheta in NYC can intuitively spot each other and there is comradery even though they can't formally recognize each other. In Canada it appears to go deeper and we see how Luppinos and Violis have ties to both.

- In an area like Ontario, Sicilians and Calabrians regularly interact and despite popular portrayals, different Italian ethnicities are more prone to cooperation than conflict through mafia history. The Cotroni crew is an example of that, with Calabrian leadership over people from all kinds of backgrounds, including Sicilian mafiosi, and if you look at these conflicts they aren't strictly Sicilian vs. Calabrian by any means.

- In the modern Montreal war, you had a Sicilian (Montagna) recruiting Sicilians (LoPresti, Arcuris) to kill other Sicilians (Rizzutos), some of them from the same town and with ties to the Sicilian mafia. The 2004 Modica / Scarcella conflict appears to have been primarily between Sicilians (including the Bonanno Montreal crew) though Calautti was involved. In Hamilton it appears the Calabrians are having each other killed. While they have had conflicts, you just don't see that many straight-up conflicts between Sicilians and Calabrians along ethnic lines.

- Has Calautti's 'Ndrangheta affiliation ever been confirmed? Hard to know someone's exact affiliation until inside info comes out, i.e. all of the accounts of the Violis and Luppinos being solely an 'Ndrangheta clan then an informant and tapes come out confirming they're multi-generation Buffalo members and part of the Buffalo-Ontario mafia leadership. If Calautti was involved with the 'Ndrangheta, he had a deep ongoing interest in serious Sicilian affairs in Ontario and Quebec.

- Has Scoppa said definitively in the book yet that he was a made member of the mafia? If I glossed over it, let me know, but I didn't see that, only a vague reference to Montreal no longer following traditional inductions (which could just as well describe the Bonanno family for decades). His comment sort of struck me as a Gene Borello "Nobody uses the term caporegime in the streets," which both Mike Franzese and John Pennisi have directly responded to, saying made members do use the term.

- If Scoppa's membership is confirmed somewhere, ignore this, but some of the Montreal coverage over the years reminds me of the old Philly newspaper headline about Frankie Flowers D'Alfonso becoming the new boss after Bruno's death. D'Alfonso was heavily involved in local gambling rackets and mafia figures had been seen showing him respect on surveillance after the Bruno hit, but he was an associate. Some of these Canadian articles announcing new leaders in Montreal come across that way. Maybe some of these individuals are heavily influential over "the Book", but based on what Scoppa has said "the Book" is a street tax that appears to have no relationship to any one organization.

- "The Book" is interesting in its own right... Scoppa makes it sound like the operations are so tightly bundled together that a completely different group (i.e. bikers) can readily take control of it from the mafia. In other cities, an attempt to take over a mafia group's entire extortion/collection operation would be piecemeal and chaotic. Scoppa's account gives the impression that the mafia in Montreal really is much more like a crew (that intersects on an operational level with other criminal groups) than the "Sixth Family Syndicate" it has been made out to be.

Montagna was with brothers Domenico and Antonino Arcuri, owners of the Ital Gelati ice cream factory, whom he had known for a long time.

Montagna knowing the Arcuris for "a long time" would back up the idea that he was familiar with Montreal Bonanno figures long before he was deported to Canada. He may have known Bonanno member Giuseppe Arcuri in NYC, a relative of the Montreal Arcuris. Giuseppe Renda attended Arcuri's wake in NYC.

• What exactly is the Toronto structure inreguards to the Rizzutos? The sixth family said it was very loose, more like business interest under the Rizzuto umbrella...

If we knew more history on Montreal's Toronto faction going back to Cotroni we might know more about the relationship later. Stefano Magaddino complains on his 1960s office tapes that the Bonannos made a number of members in Ontario. An early 1970s FBI report refers to a faction of Bonanno members in Ontario in addition to Montreal, all of them reporting to the Bonanno administration. Unfortunately no names are identified.

So the Bonannos had a faction in Ontario for 40+ years, but we an barely piece together the full membership / operations of the Montreal crew in any era, so it's even more difficult to try to figure out who and what the Bonanno family had in Ontario going back decades.

It's the issue with accounts that say the Rizzutos planted a flag on Ontario. We know the Bonanno family had a presence there from the time Cotroni became capodecina in the early 1960s, which would suggest some of what the Rizzutos did in Ontario had continuity from the previous regime. Or did the Cotroni-era interests in Ontario completely die out and the Rizzuto element established their own interests via their own independent contacts? I am of the belief that none of this operates in a vacuum and there is continuity and crossover in virtually everything that goes on in Canada.

• If any of this originated with NY, it came from Basicano, right? He, Sciascia, and Montagna were like the only guys that knew Canada enough to make a move, and I dont even think Basciano could have done what Montagna did up there because of a lack of familiarity with the surroundings... my opinion...

- The Bonanno family in 2004-2005 was in such a state of disarray that beyond wanting to maintain ties to Montreal I can't imagine they had the resources or interest to do much at the time.

- Dom Cicale said Basciano continued to push Montreal for tribute with Sal Montagna's help, which they delivered, but we don't know the extent of Basciano's contact with Montreal. Cicale also said Basciano continued to be receive drugs from Montreal after Sciascia's death and along with Montagna was one of the Bonanno members personally contacted by Joe Massino after Sciascia's murder to ensure no problems.

- Anything Montagna did technically "originated with NY", as Montagna was the Bonanno family acting boss. If Montagna went to Castellammare and told Mariano Asaro that he was standing behind Francesco Domingo, that would mean the Bonanno family was supporting Domingo in his dispute with Asaro. It might not mean the entire Bonanno family agreed, as there are all kinds of divided interests (or just plain disinterest) within any mafia family, but to our knowledge at the time of Montagna's deportation he represented the highest authority in the Bonanno family. There was no official boss and Sal Montagna was acting boss.

- We need more info on Montagna's rank upon deportation, though. Gasper Valenti testified at the Asaro trial that Sal Montagna was "one of the bosses" and "a boss from NYC" when Montagna was killed in 2011, but they didn't ask for clarification and we can't be sure if this meant Montagna had been a boss previously or if he was still considered part of the Bonanno hierarchy when he was killed. Historically, when an NYC mafia member was deported back to Italy or elsewhere, he lost his rank. However, Montagna was deported to a foreign city with a large, thriving Bonanno crew. While he was no longer in a position to run the day-to-day activities of the Bonanno family and we know others became acting boss in NYC, we can't be sure what role Montagna represented in Montreal.

- Montagna couldn't have done as much as he did if he hadn't been a high-ranking Bonanno member. If being a Bonanno boss meant nothing in Montreal, it's unlikely Montagna would have made any in-roads with the Montreal group(s). We know however that certain people were willing to support him, likely for a combination of reasons, but one would have been his status as a Bonanno leader.

- Desjardins' brother-in-law Joe DiMaulo would have readily understood that he was made into the Bonanno family, not the "Rizzuto Crime Syndicate." DiMaulo drove underboss Sal Vitale around Montreal a decade earlier and visited NYC in the 1970s for the Rastelli vote, plus other interactions we likely never heard of, so DiMaulo knew mafia protocol as a member of the Bonanno family.

- The Desjardins angle plays well with the above. Despite Fernandez's strange boast about him and Desjardins being made by Rizzuto, we have Desjardins recorded saying he doesn't have a "membership card" and mocking the journalist's idea that he could be part of the leadership as a non-Italian (again, echoes of the old D'Alfonso article in Philly). This tells us that in Montreal at that time, when Montagna was there, being an Italian made member was still the requirement for formal leadership. Montagna was the highest ranking Italian made member of the Bonanno family. Desjardins aligned himself with Montagna.

- This gets into the operational vs. organizational discussion, as Desjardins had extensive knowledge and influence over operations ("the Book", as Scoppa described it) while Montagna was a relative outsider to operations but had a position in the Bonanno family that would legitimize Desjardins' actions. Obviously Montagna was not looking to be an inactive figurehead with a title, so the relationship didn't work out to say the least. Montagna may have simply used Desjardins to gain knowledge / influence over "the Book", while Desjardins appears to have used Montagna because of his mafia status.

- What's important to take from the above is that Desjardins and others wouldn't have aligned themselves with Montagna if they felt he represented nothing in Montreal. There was a significant element in Montreal (mafia and non-mafia) who didn't care what Montagna represented, or felt he was overstepping his role, hence the war. What's important is that Montagna was able to do anything at all, and Occam's Razor tells us this was because of his rank within the organization that Montreal is part of.

- For all we know, one of the reasons Montagna was inducted so young was to serve as a formal liaison between Montreal and Sciascia/NYC, given Sciascia's former liaison Joe LoPresti was murdered and Sciascia couldn't enter Canada. Montagna was young, had a clean record, Canadian citizenship, and his father was a Sicilian man of honor who had lived in Montreal. Gerlando Sciascia sponsored Pietro Ligammari for membership in the early 1990s so that Ligammari could be a formal messenger to his father in prison. Montagna may have been inducted to serve as a messenger to Montreal and the extent of his knowledge and contacts is unknown to us. The Scoppa book's reference to Montagna's long-time relationship to the Arcuris in Montreal would go with this.

The Casamento that owned eagle cheese? Wasn't he out of NY?

[OcSleeper]

.He got 6 years in 2004, so I believe he was the one that didn't want to get involved because of parole. I could be reading this wrong. But I was under the impression that he turned on the Rizzutos somewhere inbetween Vito dying and Giordano being released.

Maybe I should of added one part I left out.

"Much to his disappointment, by the way ... "And while saying this, Scoppa points his index finger to his chest so that we understand that this" certain person "was him, even if he does not want to identify himself clearly. on our recording.

How can Andrea Scoppa know so many details surrounding the murder of Vito Rizzuto's father? How can he have such precise information, which the police have never revealed so as not to compromise his chances of apprehending the shooter?

What she still hasn't managed to do? When we ask him the question, Scoppa perhaps realizes that he has had enough - or too much - said and only answers us with a look ... A "death look", which he could throw at you like Robert De Niro in The Godfather 2 or Goodfellas (Goodfellas). Except that Scoppa wasn't playing in a movie. It was better to change the subject and not insist"

From the parts before it still seemed like Scoppa was admitting it was him he even said "It might sound like Kenny and the other guy are working together, but not at all. Except for the murder of Nicky, which Kenny killed for Magi, the rest looks like a pattern. It's from the same person, right?If you had to guess who is behind it all, don't you think it comes from the same place? Appearances are deceptive. I always say, “Don't believe anything you hear and only believe half of what you see.” this is like he's saying everyone thought it was Montagna and Desjardins. But it wasnt. It's like he's saying he took his shot at the "Old Guard" because no one would be looking his way.

You're right about its weird how he explains things. That might just be the translation from French to English. I've seen a few parts where it says "her/she" instead of "Him/He".

[Pmac2]

i love what your doing and thank you for translating but is it me or does he come off as a dickhead who is trying to insert himself in the whole thing. i dont believe him but its interesting. i believe the street gang guy did kill nick jr to become close to that guy magi and his money making skills, anyone else dont believe this guy? when it come to him and his status. any pictures? pictures worth a 1000 words....

[motorfab]

i love what your doing and thank you for translating but is it me or does he come off as a dickhead who is trying to insert himself in the whole thing. i dont believe him but its interesting. i believe the street gang guy did kill nick jr to become close to that guy magi and his money making skills, anyone else dont believe this guy? when it come to him and his status. any pictures? pictures worth a 1000 words....

Scoppa has long been a high ranking member of the Montreal Mafia and therefore knows and was involved in a number of things. I don't know why you think the opposite. If anyone can enlighten us on certain things from the inside it's a guy like him ...

[Pmac2]

So hes the mastermind of it all. But also a informant for the media and the police. Then him and his brother get blown away. Sounds like ralph natalee

[motorfab]

No one is saying that he is the mastermind of anything or the ultimate boss of the Montreal Mafia. We have been talking about Scoppa since 1998 in drug or murder cases. Moreover, Natale only says bullshit (well I think, I don't care about Philadelphia unlike Montreal, but the little I read about Natale is to read absurd things). From what read on this thread while waiting to finally receive my book, seems credible to me. These are even things that we have known for a while with some clarification.

[Paulywallnutz]

How I understood it Desjardins was responsible for nick sr

[Paulywallnutz]

It’s been relatively quiet here in Montreal the last few months aside from street gang shootings. Guys just want to get back to business it seems and make money

[Tonyd621]

No one is saying that he is the mastermind of anything or the ultimate boss of the Montreal Mafia. We have been talking about Scoppa since 1998 in drug or murder cases. Moreover, Natale only says bullshit (well I think, I don't care about Philadelphia unlike Montreal, but the little I read about Natale is to read absurd things). From what read on this thread while waiting to finally receive my book, seems credible to me. These are even things that we have known for a while with some clarification.

Natale is probably the biggest bullshitter there is when you put all these informers, rats, dry snitches, etc in context. On that valuetainment podcast with Bet-David his answer to 90% of the questions was bullshit or self-aggrandizing to the nth degree.
I agree with you on Natale is my point. You can't even compare imo

[scagghiuni]

i'm sure that montagna ordered the murder of nick jr, even if ducarme was the shooter, scoppa is probably not even made