Moderator: Capos
Lupara wrote:The Bonanno family did not have rats for more than a century, as opposed to the other families. It was only when Massino, the boss, flipped, that everything fell apart in their organization. And this was only for a couple of years. It seems that the heydays of flipping (the 90s and 2000s) are over and the families have become more seclusive.
You're right, but it all happened shortly after another. But Massino was the guy who could damage the whole Bonanno organization the most. He was the highest authority not only as the boss but also as an informant. The feds most likely would choose the word of Massino above all others. And besides that, he was also the highest symbol. What does an oath mean if the guy who you swore that oath to breaks it himself?B. wrote:There were CIs, but you're right there were no CWs.Lupara wrote:The Bonanno family did not have rats for more than a century, as opposed to the other families. It was only when Massino, the boss, flipped, that everything fell apart in their organization. And this was only for a couple of years. It seems that the heydays of flipping (the 90s and 2000s) are over and the families have become more seclusive.
Though I wouldn't say everything fell apart when Massino flipped. Everything had already fallen apart and a number of important capos and the underboss all flipped leading up to that. Massino was just the icing on the cake.
Correct. Started with Frank Coppa and Sal Vitale then a few others...Then Massino waited all the way till he was convicted to flip. But really they had quite a few made guys flip. You can say they more then made up for the century of CW lol. I think even LE was amazed at the amount of guys trying to get deals. The race was on so to speak for deals. LE was a little taken back due to the fact there was never a CW for a century.B. wrote:There were CIs, but you're right there were no CWs.Lupara wrote:The Bonanno family did not have rats for more than a century, as opposed to the other families. It was only when Massino, the boss, flipped, that everything fell apart in their organization. And this was only for a couple of years. It seems that the heydays of flipping (the 90s and 2000s) are over and the families have become more seclusive.
Though I wouldn't say everything fell apart when Massino flipped. Everything had already fallen apart and a number of important capos and the underboss all flipped leading up to that. Massino was just the icing on the cake.
I've always assumed that was the case. Valachi came as a wake up call and the family responded accordingly.Lupara wrote:Perhaps because they had the first member to flip they were also the first to take precautions.Wiseguy wrote:It's strange. The Genovese family had the first member to publically flip but came to be considered the most secretive family with the least amount of turncoats. Meanwhile, the Bonanno family was the last to have a member flip but, once they did, many came shortly after.
Just goes to show the staying power of the NY families and why they're still around 20 years after their demise was being proclaimed.Pogo The Clown wrote:Yeah it was pretty crazy how many top guy's flipped. From late 2002-2007 you had the Boss, UnderBoss, 8 Capos/Acting Capos and at least 3 Soldiers flip. Pretty incredible how the family didn't implode from it all.
Pogo
Yep Di Maulo was always seen as the head of the Calabrian faction under Rizzuto. Isn't Arcadi Calabrian too? Hell Rizzuto trusted him to run the family for him so that tells you how well he worked with everyone when he was out.MickeyMeatballs wrote:Several ranking figures in the Rizzuto circle were/are Calabrian.
Any guesses on who the Brooklyn/Manhattan guy might be? I remember the other one sounding like Mirra.JD wrote:They also had a member in the Family's Brooklyn-Lower Manhattan faction (made 1950s or prior) informing right around the time the books were opened, and another one I've posted about before who the FBI described around Spring 1977 as 'recently made under Carmine Galante'.
I learned more about Canada then I bargained for on the "Flunky iron worker with out a family " thread , Then the war started to heat up , the longest on going thread I seen on the Mafia with tons of great info and day to day updates on a ongoing Mafia war Classic .... (Props to all posters involved )B. wrote:There were a few of us that were open to the idea that Montagna would get involved in Montreal, but it was all just guesswork on everyone's part. Especially JoeyChucky wrote:I don't know too much about NY other than what I read here, but I remember this theory out there that Montagna was just some flunky and would be a non-factor once he was deported. I think the only guy on RD attempting to get behind a Montagna takeover theory was JoeyCigars and everybody laughed at him saying he was an asshole and that no one in Canada gave a fuck about Montagna, not saying he had any inside knowledge though. I remember thinking at the time that this Montagna couldn't have become a major player at such a young age if he wasn't a serious guy himself, but I think a lot of people really bought into the "Sixth Family" shit and looked at Montagna, or any other Bonannos guy, as a doofus in comparison to the all-powerful & all-knowing Montreal guys.B. wrote:There was misinformation about Montagna early on that said he was just a Basciano crony whose promotion was symbolic of how far down the Bonannos had gone. People on the Real Deal jumped on this bandwagon and it was in other places too. Now it's clear that Montagna was an aggressive and resourceful leader in his own right. We have seen what he was capable of in Montreal where his mob ties were loose at best, so I hope we learn more about what he was like in NYC where he had more resources and support. The book isn't closed on him.
People were saying Montagna was just a flunky even when he was named acting boss around 2006. Hoping we get more info on what he was up to in NY between 2006 and 2009.
that's what sal vitale said i think after the murder of sciascia (1999) i'm sure they made several others and anyway they have a huge number of associates if they are so strong in montrealLupara wrote:It is well documented that the Montreal crew consisted of aproximately 20 made members. There are probably a couple Sicilian and Calabrian mafiosi operating in Montreal who belong to other families, but even then the total numbers of fully inducted members of the Mafia in Montreal would probably not be more than a couple dozen.
that's what sal vitale said i think that after the murder of sciascia (1999) they made several others and anyway they have a huge number of associates if they are so strong in montrealLupara wrote:It is well documented that the Montreal crew consisted of aproximately 20 made members. There are probably a couple Sicilian and Calabrian mafiosi operating in Montreal who belong to other families, but even then the total numbers of fully inducted members of the Mafia in Montreal would probably not be more than a couple dozen.
It comes from various sources such as FBI files dating from the 1960s, Paolo Violi and Vito Rizzuto, who told Vitale that there were 19 members after Sciascia's death. As far as associates, it is estimated that there are as many as 500. I've composed a list of well over 200 people who are currently involved.scagghiuni wrote:that's what sal vitale said i think that after the murder of sciascia (1999) they made several others and anyway they have a huge number of associates if they are so strong in montrealLupara wrote:It is well documented that the Montreal crew consisted of aproximately 20 made members. There are probably a couple Sicilian and Calabrian mafiosi operating in Montreal who belong to other families, but even then the total numbers of fully inducted members of the Mafia in Montreal would probably not be more than a couple dozen.
Probably not everyone, but I'll ask anyway: do we know who is Sicilian and who in Calabrese in that 200? Thanks.Lupara wrote:It comes from various sources such as FBI files dating from the 1960s, Paolo Violi and Vito Rizzuto, who told Vitale that there were 19 members after Sciascia's death. As far as associates, it is estimated that there are as many as 500. I've composed a list of well over 200 people who are currently involved.scagghiuni wrote:that's what sal vitale said i think that after the murder of sciascia (1999) they made several others and anyway they have a huge number of associates if they are so strong in montrealLupara wrote:It is well documented that the Montreal crew consisted of aproximately 20 made members. There are probably a couple Sicilian and Calabrian mafiosi operating in Montreal who belong to other families, but even then the total numbers of fully inducted members of the Mafia in Montreal would probably not be more than a couple dozen.
I'd only know the background of some of the more well known guys, but I have mostly been just collecting the names. However, I seems that the Sicillians form the biggest group within the Italian community in Montreal, particulary those hailing from the province of Agrigento. That possibly also explains why Rizzuto was able to reclaim his position.Chris Christie wrote:Probably not everyone, but I'll ask anyway: do we know who is Sicilian and who in Calabrese in that 200? Thanks.Lupara wrote:It comes from various sources such as FBI files dating from the 1960s, Paolo Violi and Vito Rizzuto, who told Vitale that there were 19 members after Sciascia's death. As far as associates, it is estimated that there are as many as 500. I've composed a list of well over 200 people who are currently involved.scagghiuni wrote:that's what sal vitale said i think that after the murder of sciascia (1999) they made several others and anyway they have a huge number of associates if they are so strong in montrealLupara wrote:It is well documented that the Montreal crew consisted of aproximately 20 made members. There are probably a couple Sicilian and Calabrian mafiosi operating in Montreal who belong to other families, but even then the total numbers of fully inducted members of the Mafia in Montreal would probably not be more than a couple dozen.
