Andrew Scoppa

[SantoClaus]

I think the ones in Southern Italy will forever be the strongest in the world, the international scope is immense IMO

[antimafia]

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• In 2016 an informant claimed that the Scoppas were recognized by the Mafia in Toronto, and the Mafia in Sicily. They didnt specify who these people were. I think this needs some serious discussion...

This actually should day ITALY, not SICILY

Contrast this with the quote from Scoppa in chapter 10, «La Sauce»:

«Vito est revenu au Canada le 5 octobre 2012. Les gars qui sont allés le chercher à l’aéroport de Toronto étaient Poncho [Liborio Cuntrera], Vito Salvaggio, Leo [Rizzuto], Steve Sauce et peut-être aussi [son frère] Mario Sauce. Vito est resté à Toronto parce qu’il avait de la famille là-bas. Et il avait des gens à rencontrer là. Il y a passé une semaine. C’était important pour lui de savoir si les Calabrais à Toronto étaient impliqués dans tout ce qui est arrivé à Montréal pendant son absence, dont la mort de son fils aîné et de son père. Il a rencontré certains des plus hauts dirigeants mafieux. Et ils lui ont assuré que non, les Calabrais de Toronto n’avaient rien à voir là-dedans. Ils n’étaient pas impliqués. Et ils lui ont offert leur aide si jamais il en avait besoin. Vito avait donc leur appui. Il les a d’ailleurs appelés pour discuter juste avant ce qui est arrivé a Joe Di Maulo ....»

Surely because it is after Vito's death (2012-1016)? Guess there have been so many things in 4 years that the guys from Toronto may have changed their minds?

It is signifigant that Scoppa said, Ndrangheta said they had nothing to do with any of it.

Also significant that, in the book, Scoppa claims that the person who killed Nick Rizzuto Sr. is still alive. Scoppa does not name the killer.

If what Scoppa claims is true, Sam Calautti of the GTA Siderno Group would not appear to be the assassin.

[scagghiuni]

he said something about montagna, the bonannos'?

[Clark]

As far as the Siderno group, I am always curious about the extent of particular indivduals involvements, despite what some of the leaders may have claimed to Vito. The fact that Giuseppe DeVito was hiding out in Toronto (allegedly receiving some sort of protection) while being at the forefront of the attack on the Rizzuto family, the Toronto murders we saw after (ie. Calautti etc.), the threat that police claim still remains on Jimmy DeMaria's life, and DeMaria's Ontario-based nephew being arrested in Montreal shoplifting weapon accessories only two days after Nick Rizzuto's death is all pretty interesting.

[CabriniGreen]

he said something about montagna, the bonannos'?

I'll try to get to it, but he basically said Montagna was like, in secret alliance with Dejardins, with Dejardins really the one pulling the strings. He says, not much really about the Bonnanos actually.....

[chubby]

Jesus Christ the guy has 20 million liquid and 12 million owed on the street??? I know it’s still such a confusing puzzle up there that we will probably never solve, it judt seems so complicated and so many small groups capable of generating huge amounts of money mainly from the massive drug trade..
Like someone said... maybe the New York families are more organized and structured than the Rizzuto clan.. but it terms of money I just don’t think you can compare... up in Montreal and Toronto there is so many guys who are earning tens of millions on drugs alone. It’s insane... like didn’t they say lorenzo Giordano had a Ferrari he often drove and shit?? I mean even pat Musitano had a Ferrari and armored vehicles.. and they seemed to be small time in the grand scheme of things up that way.... like I said it’s a full on cluster fuck when it comes to alliances and structure... but sheer earnings seem to be just insane compared to ny families...

[Dr031718]

Any updates?

[CabriniGreen]

Chapter 4: Respect

Antimafia posted the excerpt detailing how Scoppa came to meet Vito and Niccolo Rizzuto. I'll continue on from there with more notes from the chapter....




• When Violi went to NY, he asked permission to kill the Rizzutos. He was told to keep quiet and not to touch the Rizzutos. Interestingly, this is attributed to Paul Castellano, as besides being an influential boss in New York, his wife is a Manno, like Niccolo Rizzutos wife.


Just as a reminder, there wernt just familial connections, there was interconnected business interest.....




The most intriguing of the dozens Cuntrera-Caruana enterprises was a cattle-breeding company on an extended ranch in the state of Barinas, close to the Colombian border. It had its own private airstrip. A special task-force of the Venezuelan intelligence-service DISIP looked at this farm called Ganaderia Rio Zapa, established in 1971. (49) The shareholders of the firm represented the creme-de-la-creme of Mafia heroin-movers in those days:

* Salvatore 'Cicchiteddu' Greco, the former head of the overall Commission of the Sicilian Cosa Nostra, and one of the pioneers in the international heroin trade (50);
* Nick Rizzuto, a lieutenant in the Montreal-based Cotroni Family, but highly independent and in fact subordinate to the Sicilian Mafia (i.e. Cuntrera-Caruana);
* Antonio Napoli, a high-ranking made member of the New York Gambino Family and 'the biggest mover of junk to the United States' (51);
* John Gambino, a relative of Carlo Gambino and boss of the Sicilian faction of the New York Gambino Family (52);
* Brothers Angelo and Francesco Mongiovì, figure-heads of the Cuntreras in Caracas and Italy's financial centre Milan. According to a DEA report, Angelo's son Nino Mongiovì married Paolo Cuntrera's daughter and was the 'super manager for drugs of all kinds passing through Miami'. (53)

The DEA spotted them investigating the Napoli brothers of the Gambino Family in New York. Antonio Napoli had moved to Venezuela and was a partner in a Cuntrera business. At the time DEA headquarters figured the trail irrelevant; nevertheless, special agent Tom Tripodi was sent to Caracas. DEA-analyst Mona Ewell told reporter Claire Sterling that Tripodi "came back with the whole thing." (54)

"We saw the Cuntreras and the Caruanas. The security around their homes was incredible... They had control in Venezuela like you wouldn't believe

Spare thoughts

My opinion, Violi was NEVER, I repeat, NEVER getting permission to hit them, unless they fucked up somehow, and he could capitalize on the stuation.. like the Rizzutos did when Violi got caught on the wire...

Chapter 4 Notes Continued:


• Nick Rizzuto grew up in Sicily with his stepfather, Antonio Manno, who was one of the most influential mafiosi. It was an integral part of his family, and it helped shape Vitos education. Even though they were a Father and Son team, Nick wanted Vito as boss. Nick was very proud of Vitos notorious reputation in Montreal.

• There is an interesting passage concerning Sciascia...
After a recounting of the events of the 3 capos murders, there is this statement..." Some ten years later, there began to be friction between Gerlando Sciascia, who represents the Rizzuto family in the United States to the Bonnano Family, and Joe Massino......

Followed by this, in the SAME paragraph.....

" When he meets Vito Rizzuto, Vitale hides from him that the murder was approved by the Bonnano Family and offers to replace him as the Bonnano Family representative in Canada."


More spare thoughts:



I really think there was real confusion here. I think the Caruanas- Cuntreras- Rizzutos- Renda- Sciascia, THOUGHT they had the same autonomy as the Gambino- Inzerillo- Mannino- Spatola people.
]



After all, they were ALL PARTNERS in the same thing. What they didnt have was relatives at the top of the Bonnanos in NY, like the Inzerillos had first with Gambino/ Castellano, then later with Cali. The Inzerillos-Gambino had Brooklyn, New Jersey, Philly, given to them almost like open territories.



And the Caruanas are like, fighting an Acting capo, really technically a soldier to set up shop in Montreal, when really, it's all already been approved at the HIGHEST levels of the mafia, on BOTH SIDES of the Atlantic. They had to find a way to accommodate the business while still respecting the rules and protocols and procedures. This was a challenge. Modernization.


Let's argue, lol..... just kidding Notes Cont.....

• After the Sciascia murder...... From Linda Fequiere, " there will be a certain distance between the Bonnano Family and the Rizzuto family".

From Scoppa, (I believe), " Yes, we remain under the thumb of the Bonnano family, but really at a distance and lip service". "The Bonnano family let Mr. Rizzuto steer his boat, as he was becoming extremely wealthy and influential in Canada and bringing in huge amounts of money, part of which went to the Bonnano family. So we really let him run the rules of Traditional Italian Organized Crime in Quebec, Montreal, Canada as he saw fit.".....


• Nick wasnt charismatic like Vito, he was a man of few words, very serious guy. Apparently did favors for the poor often, had the respect of the community...

• Vito is described as being like a leader of a political party. He had his supporters, followers, he was a unifier. But these connections didnt really go deeper than business, people sought out Vito hoping an association with him would be advantageous or profitable.


• Vito had a lot of money coming in, especially from contractors in the construction industry. But Vito is described as " a real Santa Claus"....


• Scoppa says.. " You think because of his status, his reputation, his attire and his wealthy connections, the guy was full of money?" It wasnt the reality. On the contrary. It is the Caruana who are full of cash. They are the Wayne Gretzkys of coke and heroin! It was Kings.



But what they have doesnt mean it was Vito too. Lots of people think Vitos a big shot but..... When Alfonso Caruana was going to talk to Vito, I can tell you that Vito was all ears. He listened to him like no one else.


When his father went I to exile in Venezuela, Vito blazed a fortune. Only the best cloths, food, shoes, the most famous, expensive places. He spent lavishly, the money burned his fingers. Before his father came back, he even had to borrow two million dollars from Paolo Gervasi...

[johnny_scootch]

• After the Sciascia murder...... From Linda Fequiere, " there will be a certain distance between the Bonnano Family and the Rizzuto family".

From Scoppa, (I believe), " Yes, we remain under the thumb of the Bonnano family, but really at a distance and lip service". "The Bonnano family let Mr. Rizzuto steer his boat, as he was becoming extremely wealthy and influential in Canada and bringing in huge amounts of money, part of which went to the Bonnano family. So we really let him run the rules of Traditional Italian Organized Crime in Quebec, Montreal, Canada as he saw fit.".....

Yeah I think it's pretty clear the Rizzuto's didn't break away from the Bonanno's after the Sciascia murder. This is off topic but remember this from Dom Cicale.....

"The word put on the street was that George was killed in a robbery or a drug deal that went bad. Vito from Canada was not buying it one bit. He refused to replace George as captain. Other stories started to trickle down to Joe Massino," Cicale said. "He did not like what he was hearing so he immediately sent for Vito to get his ass down to Maspeth where Joe informed Vito who the boss was and that Canada was still under the control of the Bonanno family."

Vito may not have agreed with what Joe Massino said but he listened. The monies still kept coming in from all the illegal activities in Canada, even after the murder of George Sciascia. Many have speculated this is when Rizzuto's "Sixth Family" broke away from the Bonanno's in New York and stopped paying tribute. This is not the case according to Cicale. "Vito had no choice. If he did not show, he could have easily gotten killed-even by someone in Canada. Keep in mind that everyone is always looking to move up the ranks."

"Rizzuto carried out other orders from New York," Cicale said. "Massino, for example, sent word to Vito to open a strip club in Canada. Massing and Vito would be 50-50 partners. Vito did as he was told." Cicale believes the strip club episode was a test to see how Rizzuto responded.

[CabriniGreen]

• After the Sciascia murder...... From Linda Fequiere, " there will be a certain distance between the Bonnano Family and the Rizzuto family".

From Scoppa, (I believe), " Yes, we remain under the thumb of the Bonnano family, but really at a distance and lip service". "The Bonnano family let Mr. Rizzuto steer his boat, as he was becoming extremely wealthy and influential in Canada and bringing in huge amounts of money, part of which went to the Bonnano family. So we really let him run the rules of Traditional Italian Organized Crime in Quebec, Montreal, Canada as he saw fit.".....

Yeah I think it's pretty clear the Rizzuto's didn't break away from the Bonanno's after the Sciascia murder. This is off topic but remember this from Dom Cicale.....

"The word put on the street was that George was killed in a robbery or a drug deal that went bad. Vito from Canada was not buying it one bit. He refused to replace George as captain. Other stories started to trickle down to Joe Massino," Cicale said. "He did not like what he was hearing so he immediately sent for Vito to get his ass down to Maspeth where Joe informed Vito who the boss was and that Canada was still under the control of the Bonanno family."

Vito may not have agreed with what Joe Massino said but he listened. The monies still kept coming in from all the illegal activities in Canada, even after the murder of George Sciascia. Many have speculated this is when Rizzuto's "Sixth Family" broke away from the Bonanno's in New York and stopped paying tribute. This is not the case according to Cicale. "Vito had no choice. If he did not show, he could have easily gotten killed-even by someone in Canada. Keep in mind that everyone is always looking to move up the ranks."

"Rizzuto carried out other orders from New York," Cicale said. "Massino, for example, sent word to Vito to open a strip club in Canada. Massing and Vito would be 50-50 partners. Vito did as he was told." Cicale believes the strip club episode was a test to see how Rizzuto responded.

I'm dying to know what strip club. I kinda dont believe that. It's stupid, like of all the things to ask for....demand even....

NOT, access to the narcotics contacts, or the Montreal ports.

NOT a piece of the venerated " Book", ( I'll get to this next chapter) either in Montreal OR Platinum in Toronto. NONE of the construction? A fuckin STRIP CLUB?!! And not even in New York? Who ran it? The Arcuris? Cotronis? Joe Renda? DiMaulo?

Did Massino testify to Rizzuto " getting his ass down" to NY?


Makes very little sense to me....

[CabriniGreen]

There's another thing I cant reconcile. Massino was keeping tabs on Canada, so he should have an idea of the scope of operations up there right?

So how is he so clueless about how a guy like Basciano makes his money, when hes a huge drug dealer and hes right there in the Bronx?

Like to me, how do you know what Sciascias specialty is, but clueless on Bascianos? When they move, probably the SAME dope?

[CabriniGreen]

AND, they were BOTH in the Bronx, weird shit to my eyes...

[SantoClaus]

What if anything does Scoppa say about Hamilton? Seems the Bonannos and NYC are appearing more and more in that city, could all be tied to what is being discussed above.

As well as Rizzuto's clandestine meeting in the USA and Canada. Very interesting!

[Etna]

I'm really wondering if Montreal was very structured like a traditional family and most aren't made - and simply followed their own ranks? Or was it kind of a loose confederation of criminals?

[Laurentian]

I'm really wondering if Montreal was very structured like a traditional family and most aren't made - and simply followed their own ranks? Or was it kind of a loose confederation of criminals?

No it is not structured like a typical LCN family is. It is rather, like you say, a loose confederation of criminals where the Italian trait has been mostly dominant and influent over the other groups for several decades.