John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by B. »

Wiseguy wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:59 am
AM434 wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:19 am Also Artilotta claimed he had approx. 12 made guys under him, any idea who they are? Guys in CT?
We'd have to see a list of crew members in the early-mid 2000s.

One thing to remember is, according to the indictment, Arilotta never technically rose above the rank of soldier. Tranghese was technically the captain after Bruno but, according to prosecutors, Nigro marginalized these guys which effectively made Arilotta the "de facto leader" in Springfield before they were all taken down.
Here is what John Bologna said about the Springfield membership:

Image

Bologna wasn't a member but as the liaison between NYC and Springfield would have had a good idea who the members were.

You mentioned these names, too, which aren't on his list:

Carlo Mastrototaro
Anthony Volpe

So that's ten names. I don't personally know how accurate Bologna's info was or what the timeline was on inductions or deaths for these guys, but it looks like ~12 Genovese members in New England around this time isn't too far-fetched.

Arilotta makes it a point to mention Connecticut each time he talks about his crew, so they may have had others there. I can believe they had a few lesser known, maybe older members around New England that Arilotta would have known about, assuming his estimate was exact, but he just kind of threw the number out there, didn't seem invested in it.

--

If I were doing a blind "taste test" of this interview and you asked me to guess who the Genovese member was, I'd go with Arilotta immediately. He doesn't seem to be trying to prove much to anyone beyond what you'd expect from a guy who flipped doing an interview. There's a confidence to what he says.

What's absurd is Luisi's claim that he was planning to start his own mafia family in Boston. I'm willing to believe that Luisi himself believed that, or more likely fantasized about it, but the reality of New York, the Patriarca family, and even his friends in Philadelphia sanctioning or tolerating that doesn't sit right. From what's available, the Genovese family didn't even approve of the inductions.

I believe that Luisi and other men were made Philly members in Boston, but were the Boston Philly guys ever introduced as "amico nostra" to anyone outside of Philly? Someone can induct whoever they want and they can call themselves a decina or even a family, they can earn money and muscle people, but without recognition they might as well be the Black Junior Mafia.

These guys want to expand their network and broaden their influence. It's like Vincenzo Morena being made by the Bonanno family in Ontario. If he hadn't made recordings and we didn't know the details, we would be skeptical. The mafia trends toward expansion when possible, though, and the existence of the US mafia itself is a testament to that. It's strange to think of Philly wanting to set up a crew in Boston, but in an organization where the Bonannos had crews in Tucson and Montreal, the DeCavalcantes had Connecticut, and for that matter the Genoveses in Springfield, it's just sort of what these guys do when they have the chance.
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by Ryan98366 »

2 Bosses??? That is a stretch.
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

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B. wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:36 pm
Wiseguy wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:59 am
AM434 wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:19 am Also Artilotta claimed he had approx. 12 made guys under him, any idea who they are? Guys in CT?
We'd have to see a list of crew members in the early-mid 2000s.

One thing to remember is, according to the indictment, Arilotta never technically rose above the rank of soldier. Tranghese was technically the captain after Bruno but, according to prosecutors, Nigro marginalized these guys which effectively made Arilotta the "de facto leader" in Springfield before they were all taken down.
Here is what John Bologna said about the Springfield membership:

Image

Bologna wasn't a member but as the liaison between NYC and Springfield would have had a good idea who the members were.

You mentioned these names, too, which aren't on his list:

Carlo Mastrototaro
Anthony Volpe

So that's ten names. I don't personally know how accurate Bologna's info was or what the timeline was on inductions or deaths for these guys, but it looks like ~12 Genovese members in New England around this time isn't too far-fetched.

Arilotta makes it a point to mention Connecticut each time he talks about his crew, so they may have had others there. I can believe they had a few lesser known, maybe older members around New England that Arilotta would have known about, assuming his estimate was exact, but he just kind of threw the number out there, didn't seem invested in it.

--

If I were doing a blind "taste test" of this interview and you asked me to guess who the Genovese member was, I'd go with Arilotta immediately. He doesn't seem to be trying to prove much to anyone beyond what you'd expect from a guy who flipped doing an interview. There's a confidence to what he says.

What's absurd is Luisi's claim that he was planning to start his own mafia family in Boston. I'm willing to believe that Luisi himself believed that, or more likely fantasized about it, but the reality of New York, the Patriarca family, and even his friends in Philadelphia sanctioning or tolerating that doesn't sit right. From what's available, the Genovese family didn't even approve of the inductions.

I believe that Luisi and other men were made Philly members in Boston, but were the Boston Philly guys ever introduced as "amico nostra" to anyone outside of Philly? Someone can induct whoever they want and they can call themselves a decina or even a family, they can earn money and muscle people, but without recognition they might as well be the Black Junior Mafia.

These guys want to expand their network and broaden their influence. It's like Vincenzo Morena being made by the Bonanno family in Ontario. If he hadn't made recordings and we didn't know the details, we would be skeptical. The mafia trends toward expansion when possible, though, and the existence of the US mafia itself is a testament to that. It's strange to think of Philly wanting to set up a crew in Boston, but in an organization where the Bonannos had crews in Tucson and Montreal, the DeCavalcantes had Connecticut, and for that matter the Genoveses in Springfield, it's just sort of what these guys do when they have the chance.
Thanks, B.

Mastrototaro was based in Worcester and Volpe in Connecticut. I don't know if that is why they weren't mentioned. Either way, all of them are now dead except for Fusco (who is in prison) and Arilotta and Tranghese (who both flipped). I wouldn't be surprised if there's only some associates up there now, like the ones who were busted a few years ago (Santaniello, etc), and that in fact they are now under the supervision of the New York-based Ianniello crew.

As far as Luisi, he talks like getting made into Philadelphia would somehow give him clout to form his own family in Boston. I'm not sure how that works when the Genovese were obviously against it and the Patriarcas no doubt would have been too. If there's a disagreement, or push comes to shove, what standing does Merlino, Borgesi or whoever have to come up and back Luisi in Boston? None. It sounds more like Luisi and the guys around him wanted to get made but it was never going to happen in New England. So some of them got Merlino, etc. to give them their buttons, no doubt Merlino seeing it as more people to kick up to him.
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by B. »

In the interview Luisi also says he was grabbing Patriarca associates he knew and putting them under him. Were the Philly Boston members confirmed to have been Patriarca associates or are there other former Patriarca associates confirmed to have been under Luisi? Given how violent the Patriarca family was not long before Luisi joined Philly and the massacre of his relatives, I'm surprised he would be tempting fate like that.

I can believe Luisi was made by Philly, promoted to captain, and allowed to induct his close associates. Where I begin to question these guys is when they are giving interviews long after they flipped saying they were going to start their own mafia family or that they were muscling an existing mafia family in Boston. If his FBI 302s or his court testimony mentions these details I'm more likely to trust it.

Also found it strange he didn't want to talk about the induction ceremony, like it was sacred. If he feels weird breaking an oath he gave to Joey Merlino or George Borgesi, all the power to him, I'm not going to judge him, but housewives know what a mafia induction ceremony is in 2020. I wonder if the ceremony involved the full ritual or if it was more informal, like Previte. If it wasn't the traditional ceremony that might explain why he didn't want to discuss it. Personally I'd find it impressive if Merlino/Borgesi did the full gun/knife, blood, and card ceremony in Boston.

I'm not trying to pile on the guy and I give witnesses the benefit of the doubt when I can. I'm glad Luisi did this interview as he has an interesting story and a lot to offer. I just have questions.
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by slimshady_007 »

B. wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:28 pm In the interview Luisi also says he was grabbing Patriarca associates he knew and putting them under him. Were the Philly Boston members confirmed to have been Patriarca associates or are there other former Patriarca associates confirmed to have been under Luisi? Given how violent the Patriarca family was not long before Luisi joined Philly and the massacre of his relatives, I'm surprised he would be tempting fate like that.

I can believe Luisi was made by Philly, promoted to captain, and allowed to induct his close associates. Where I begin to question these guys is when they are giving interviews long after they flipped saying they were going to start their own mafia family or that they were muscling an existing mafia family in Boston. If his FBI 302s or his court testimony mentions these details I'm more likely to trust it.

Also found it strange he didn't want to talk about the induction ceremony, like it was sacred. If he feels weird breaking an oath he gave to Joey Merlino or George Borgesi, all the power to him, I'm not going to judge him, but housewives know what a mafia induction ceremony is in 2020. I wonder if the ceremony involved the full ritual or if it was more informal, like Previte. If it wasn't the traditional ceremony that might explain why he didn't want to discuss it. Personally I'd find it impressive if Merlino/Borgesi did the full gun/knife, blood, and card ceremony in Boston.

I'm not trying to pile on the guy and I give witnesses the benefit of the doubt when I can. I'm glad Luisi did this interview as he has an interesting story and a lot to offer. I just have questions.
The Patriarca family was incredibly violent in the 90’s due to the war going on at the time. All of the brazen violence seemed to backfire on the family. A lot of guys got hit with RICO and by the late 90’s the family was decimated. I think that Luisi saw what was happening on the streets and capitalized on the situation.
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by chin_gigante »

B. wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:28 pm In the interview Luisi also says he was grabbing Patriarca associates he knew and putting them under him. Were the Philly Boston members confirmed to have been Patriarca associates or are there other former Patriarca associates confirmed to have been under Luisi? Given how violent the Patriarca family was not long before Luisi joined Philly and the massacre of his relatives, I'm surprised he would be tempting fate like that.
Robert "Bobby Blur" Paleo (who I have previously been referring to as "Puleo" until the past couple of days when I did some more digging) is the first one of the made guys I've seen with clear Patriarca ties. From what I've found, like Luisi, Paleo was backing Salemme during the 1990s and was targetted for death by the anti-Salemme faction.
One of Luisi's associates caught up in the Philly drug case was also Robert Carrozza Jr
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by B. »

chin_gigante wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:49 pm
B. wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:28 pm In the interview Luisi also says he was grabbing Patriarca associates he knew and putting them under him. Were the Philly Boston members confirmed to have been Patriarca associates or are there other former Patriarca associates confirmed to have been under Luisi? Given how violent the Patriarca family was not long before Luisi joined Philly and the massacre of his relatives, I'm surprised he would be tempting fate like that.
Robert "Bobby Blur" Paleo (who I have previously been referring to as "Puleo" until the past couple of days when I did some more digging) is the first one of the made guys I've seen with clear Patriarca ties. From what I've found, like Luisi, Paleo was backing Salemme during the 1990s and was targetted for death by the anti-Salemme faction.
One of Luisi's associates caught up in the Philly drug case was also Robert Carrozza Jr
Thanks for the info, Chin. Looks like he was telling the truth about recruiting Patriarca associates. He himself would also have been one. I wonder if his approach was aggressive or if they just sort of fell in with him.
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by Tonyd621 »

B. wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:56 pm
chin_gigante wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:49 pm
B. wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:28 pm In the interview Luisi also says he was grabbing Patriarca associates he knew and putting them under him. Were the Philly Boston members confirmed to have been Patriarca associates or are there other former Patriarca associates confirmed to have been under Luisi? Given how violent the Patriarca family was not long before Luisi joined Philly and the massacre of his relatives, I'm surprised he would be tempting fate like that.
Robert "Bobby Blur" Paleo (who I have previously been referring to as "Puleo" until the past couple of days when I did some more digging) is the first one of the made guys I've seen with clear Patriarca ties. From what I've found, like Luisi, Paleo was backing Salemme during the 1990s and was targetted for death by the anti-Salemme faction.
One of Luisi's associates caught up in the Philly drug case was also Robert Carrozza Jr
Thanks for the info, Chin. Looks like he was telling the truth about recruiting Patriarca associates. He himself would also have been one. I wonder if his approach was aggressive or if they just sort of fell in with him.
Isnt Carrozza Sr. locked up?
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by chin_gigante »

Tonyd621 wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:43 pm
B. wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:56 pm
chin_gigante wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:49 pm
B. wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:28 pm In the interview Luisi also says he was grabbing Patriarca associates he knew and putting them under him. Were the Philly Boston members confirmed to have been Patriarca associates or are there other former Patriarca associates confirmed to have been under Luisi? Given how violent the Patriarca family was not long before Luisi joined Philly and the massacre of his relatives, I'm surprised he would be tempting fate like that.
Robert "Bobby Blur" Paleo (who I have previously been referring to as "Puleo" until the past couple of days when I did some more digging) is the first one of the made guys I've seen with clear Patriarca ties. From what I've found, like Luisi, Paleo was backing Salemme during the 1990s and was targetted for death by the anti-Salemme faction.
One of Luisi's associates caught up in the Philly drug case was also Robert Carrozza Jr
Thanks for the info, Chin. Looks like he was telling the truth about recruiting Patriarca associates. He himself would also have been one. I wonder if his approach was aggressive or if they just sort of fell in with him.
Isnt Carrozza Sr. locked up?
Think he got out in 2008
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by Stroccos »

chin_gigante wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:49 pm
B. wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:28 pm In the interview Luisi also says he was grabbing Patriarca associates he knew and putting them under him. Were the Philly Boston members confirmed to have been Patriarca associates or are there other former Patriarca associates confirmed to have been under Luisi? Given how violent the Patriarca family was not long before Luisi joined Philly and the massacre of his relatives, I'm surprised he would be tempting fate like that.
Robert "Bobby Blur" Paleo (who I have previously been referring to as "Puleo" until the past couple of days when I did some more digging) is the first one of the made guys I've seen with clear Patriarca ties. From what I've found, like Luisi, Paleo was backing Salemme during the 1990s and was targetted for death by the anti-Salemme faction.
One of Luisi's associates caught up in the Philly drug case was also Robert Carrozza Jr
he was also working with made guys in the boston Family or at least the bosses suspected he was and warned Fred Simone not to work withbhim
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by dack2001 »

I think alot of Philly/Luisi had to do with mafia politics. Luisi who was a man without a country after his Dad got hit. Once he knew he wasn't getting made in Boston he knew he wasn't protected and was legitimately afraid of getting hit himself. He was not the leader of that crew before the blood bath in that restaurant, imagine trying to put things together while looking over your shoulder all day...he was reaching out for protection and got hooked up with Merlino, maybe through Borgesi, I forget how they hooked up. I read something that led me to believe Merlino was a life-line for Luisi, who was desperate for one.

Merlino knew that if he made Luisi and his guys Boston would have to come to him if they wanted to whack Luisi's crew. He knew he could essentially charge Luisi a $10,000 monthly portion of his profits for the privilege of putting him on record. He put Luisi on record, whose going to object? Boston, who were fighting each other and just rebuffed Luisi and killed his brother and father for being independent? Merlino knows the rules front and back and has legit hitters with him. Seems like Luisi has a strong survival instinct, even when ratting or giving an interview.
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by Boston+matt14 »

dack2001 wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:34 pm I think alot of Philly/Luisi had to do with mafia politics. Luisi who was a man without a country after his Dad got hit. Once he knew he wasn't getting made in Boston he knew he wasn't protected and was legitimately afraid of getting hit himself. He was not the leader of that crew before the blood bath in that restaurant, imagine trying to put things together while looking over your shoulder all day...he was reaching out for protection and got hooked up with Merlino, maybe through Borgesi, I forget how they hooked up. I read something that led me to believe Merlino was a life-line for Luisi, who was desperate for one.

Merlino knew that if he made Luisi and his guys Boston would have to come to him if they wanted to whack Luisi's crew. He knew he could essentially charge Luisi a $10,000 monthly portion of his profits for the privilege of putting him on record. He put Luisi on record, whose going to object? Boston, who were fighting each other and just rebuffed Luisi and killed his brother and father for being independent? Merlino knows the rules front and back and has legit hitters with him. Seems like Luisi has a strong survival instinct, even when ratting or giving an interview.
The Patriarca family wasn't behind Luisi's father and brother getting whacked. That was a personal beef.
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by dack2001 »

True. After the hit Luisi went to someone with Patriarcas looking for protection, looking to get with them and get made which would be his protection, and got turned down.
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by mr white »

Its not even a hit its a showdown at high noon at the ok corral and Luisis lost...
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Re: John & Gene Show / "2 Mob Bosses Sitdown" -- Paul Tanso

Post by Amershire_Ed »

dack2001 wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:22 pm True. After the hit Luisi went to someone with Patriarcas looking for protection, looking to get with them and get made which would be his protection, and got turned down.
Yeah he made a point to say “the prosecutors and judge said I had my foot of the neck of the Patriarcas” several times in this interview. You can definitely pick up some type of animus there.
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