Albert Vena

[PolackTony]

Chicago is a non white city as far as crime. The majority of what you said is correct. Different neighborhoods are run by different gangs and have very tight control. Yes they do not engage necessarily in the outfits traditional moneymakers but you can’t compare power. The vice lords, God’s, 4 corner hustlers, then the kings, Spanish Disciples have manpower that the outfit never had. No doubt at one time vena was a very dangerous guy but like my other post said he goes away from violence now

I did a search and according to LE there are 117,000 gang members in 55 known gangs in the city. That averages out to over 2,000 members per gsng.


Pogo

The variance is high though, so the mean is misleading. There are gangs in Chicago with 50-100 members, and others with thousands.

[PolackTony]

I'd add also that since the 90s the black gangs, at least in the street, have largely devolved into memes rather than well organized criminal entities. In their heyday of the 70s and 80s organizations like the BGDN and Black P Stones/El Rukns were the largest and most rigorously organized and vertically structured black OC groups in US history. A confluence of factors (LE activity, isolation of top leadership in Supermax facilities, the dismantling if the massive CHA projects, and the general precipitous decline in Chicago's black population) served to shatter the chains of command in these organizations and what you have today are largely ephemeral block crews who claim allegiance to the GDs or Stones more as "brands" then as cohesive criminal syndicates. While internicine warfare between these splinter groups accounts for a great bulk of Chicago current street violence crisis, the black gangs have largely lost their ability to engage in coordinated OC activities like political corruption.

[Wiseguy]

Hispanic gangs have been the successor mafia in Chicago for years. Organizations like the LKs and MLDs have membership in the thousands, are vertically organized, have top ranking members pulling in millions from drugs and weapons sales, and have been succesful at laundering those revenues into legit business and real estate as well. They're plugged in clout heavy city and county departments -- Streets and San, Water Reclamation District -- and have long had alderman and other public officials (the longstanding ties between Dick Mell and the MLDs is a great example). In coming years Hispanics in Chicago will continue to assimilate and take on positions of power and influence, and in this way they are following the model set by the Italians before them.

That's a stretch. While there have been examples - mostly in articles rather than actual charges brought forth - of some local politicians seeking to use the gangs to their advantage (and vice versa), it's not like the more direct, more encompassing Outfit-related corruption of old that involved local alderman up the the mayor's office, police and judges, labor unions and city departments, etc. You don't have a single, unified criminal organization like the Outfit was but multiple gangs who fight with each other much of the time. You can't automatically equate Hispanics assimilating and taking on more influence to Hispanic gangs doing the same.

Furthermore, you can look at indictment after indictment involving any gang you want to bring up - Latin Kings, Maniac Latin Disciples, Spanish Cobras, Latin Counts, Spanish Gangster Disciples, Surenos, Nortenos, etc. While Chicago has the biggest gang presence, and some of them are larger and more established than elsewhere, it's basically the same thing you see with street gangs in other cities - primarily retail-level drug dealing, with lesser and more sporadic involvement in things like robberies, burglaries, prostitution, fraud, etc. The Hispanic gangs may have an advantage over the others because they share a language and culture with the cartels who supply the drugs but that's about it. They're still street-level organizations.

[PolackTony]

Hispanic gangs have been the successor mafia in Chicago for years. Organizations like the LKs and MLDs have membership in the thousands, are vertically organized, have top ranking members pulling in millions from drugs and weapons sales, and have been succesful at laundering those revenues into legit business and real estate as well. They're plugged in clout heavy city and county departments -- Streets and San, Water Reclamation District -- and have long had alderman and other public officials (the longstanding ties between Dick Mell and the MLDs is a great example). In coming years Hispanics in Chicago will continue to assimilate and take on positions of power and influence, and in this way they are following the model set by the Italians before them.

That's a stretch. While there have been examples - mostly in articles rather than actual charges brought forth - of some local politicians seeking to use the gangs to their advantage (and vice versa), it's not like the more direct, more encompassing Outfit-related corruption of old that involved local alderman up the the mayor's office, police and judges, labor unions and city departments, etc. You don't have a single, unified criminal organization like the Outfit was but multiple gangs who fight with each other much of the time. You can't automatically equate Hispanics assimilating and taking on more influence to Hispanic gangs doing the same.

Furthermore, you can look at indictment after indictment involving any gang you want to bring up - Latin Kings, Maniac Latin Disciples, Spanish Cobras, Latin Counts, Spanish Gangster Disciples, Surenos, Nortenos, etc. While Chicago has the biggest gang presence, and some of them are larger and more established than elsewhere, it's basically the same thing you see with street gangs in other cities - primarily retail-level drug dealing, with lesser and more sporadic involvement in things like robberies, burglaries, prostitution, fraud, etc. The Hispanic gangs may have an advantage over the others because they share a language and culture with the cartels who supply the drugs but that's about it. They're still street-level organizations.

To your first paragraph, I certainly wouldn't argue that the sorts of ties to political corruption that we've seen with Hispanic gangs in Chicago come anywhere close to approximate the scale or nature of Outfit political control. My last sentence was pointing to the assimilation and maturing political influence of Hispanics in Chicagoland, and while I do think historical ties between street gangs and Hispanic political leaders have had some non-zero influence on the larger arc of this rise, it wasn't my intention to conflate the two or to insuate that the the former should serve as prima facie evidence for the latter.

To the second, I largely agree of course, though the Sureño/Norteño stuff isn't really a thing in Chicago.

[TommyGambino]

The only wiseguy now from philly that would have ever made it in Chicago or with Genovese is uncle joe.

This is just stupid.

[Pete]

Hispanic gangs have been the successor mafia in Chicago for years. Organizations like the LKs and MLDs have membership in the thousands, are vertically organized, have top ranking members pulling in millions from drugs and weapons sales, and have been succesful at laundering those revenues into legit business and real estate as well. They're plugged in clout heavy city and county departments -- Streets and San, Water Reclamation District -- and have long had alderman and other public officials (the longstanding ties between Dick Mell and the MLDs is a great example). In coming years Hispanics in Chicago will continue to assimilate and take on positions of power and influence, and in this way they are following the model set by the Italians before them.

That's a stretch. While there have been examples - mostly in articles rather than actual charges brought forth - of some local politicians seeking to use the gangs to their advantage (and vice versa), it's not like the more direct, more encompassing Outfit-related corruption of old that involved local alderman up the the mayor's office, police and judges, labor unions and city departments, etc. You don't have a single, unified criminal organization like the Outfit was but multiple gangs who fight with each other much of the time. You can't automatically equate Hispanics assimilating and taking on more influence to Hispanic gangs doing the same.

Furthermore, you can look at indictment after indictment involving any gang you want to bring up - Latin Kings, Maniac Latin Disciples, Spanish Cobras, Latin Counts, Spanish Gangster Disciples, Surenos, Nortenos, etc. While Chicago has the biggest gang presence, and some of them are larger and more established than elsewhere, it's basically the same thing you see with street gangs in other cities - primarily retail-level drug dealing, with lesser and more sporadic involvement in things like robberies, burglaries, prostitution, fraud, etc. The Hispanic gangs may have an advantage over the others because they share a language and culture with the cartels who supply the drugs but that's about it. They're still street-level organizations.

Agreed but If you look at recent cases today the outfit is a street level organization. The guys locked up now are on state arrests the feds aren’t even doing it anymore that tells you something. And to a previous post about gambling machines and union influence that is mostly gone. They don’t run any unions. They don’t have big time influence again look at the cases. Does the occasional guy get a union job cuz he’s related to Rudy fratto? Sure that happens but it’s nothing like the old days. Now that gambling is legal the licenses are so tough to get the outfit involvement is minimal. People can believe what they want but If you want to “understand the mafia in 2020” do a little research and you’ll see what’s what

[Pete]

I may be in the minority but someone show me something that doesn’t say the outfit is going the same way as Cleveland please

[NothingNew44]

I think most people who objectively look at the evidence and sources we have recognize the irrelevance of the Outfit today. I emphasize most.

[Wiseguy]

Agreed but If you look at recent cases today the outfit is a street level organization. The guys locked up now are on state arrests the feds aren’t even doing it anymore that tells you something. And to a previous post about gambling machines and union influence that is mostly gone. They don’t run any unions. They don’t have big time influence again look at the cases. Does the occasional guy get a union job cuz he’s related to Rudy fratto? Sure that happens but it’s nothing like the old days. Now that gambling is legal the licenses are so tough to get the outfit involvement is minimal. People can believe what they want but If you want to “understand the mafia in 2020” do a little research and you’ll see what’s what

Agreed. I was referring to the Outfit of decades ago.

[Mustangsally]

Tell me what gangs in Chicago are making money from gambling machines, getting kickbacks and preferential jobs from legal companies, or loan out 20k? Wait oh ya, all they mostly do is deal dope and shoot each other

You would be surprised at the fraud and theft activities of so called street gangs. While drugs are their biggest business, they do old school mafia rackets like extortion, underground casinos etc.

There have been around 3,000 people murdered in Chicago in the 5 years. I doubt any of them involve Vena.

[Snakes]

Tell me what gangs in Chicago are making money from gambling machines, getting kickbacks and preferential jobs from legal companies, or loan out 20k? Wait oh ya, all they mostly do is deal dope and shoot each other

You would be surprised at the fraud and theft activities of so called street gangs. While drugs are their biggest business, they do old school mafia rackets like extortion, underground casinos etc.

There have been around 3,000 people murdered in Chicago in the 5 years. I doubt any of them involve Vena.

Yeah, we have more instances of him telling someone not to murder people than we do the other way around.

[Moscone65]

I have a feeling a lot of the guys here in these forums think a few gavones running around in nyc or philly is the real “mafia” or some spics and moolies are anywhere close to sophisticated.

[Frank]

Tell me what gangs in Chicago are making money from gambling machines, getting kickbacks and preferential jobs from legal companies, or loan out 20k? Wait oh ya, all they mostly do is deal dope and shoot each other

You would be surprised at the fraud and theft activities of so called street gangs. While drugs are their biggest business, they do old school mafia rackets like extortion, underground casinos etc.

There have been around 3,000 people murdered in Chicago in the 5 years. I doubt any of them involve Vena.

Vena does not call himself the most dangerous man in Chicago, you ought to know that is just newsmedia sensationalism.

[Frank]

And again I take Sallets comment that the Outfit is running on fumes as the true assessment of the Outfit.

[scagghiuni]

Chicago is a non white city as far as crime. The majority of what you said is correct. Different neighborhoods are run by different gangs and have very tight control. Yes they do not engage necessarily in the outfits traditional moneymakers but you can’t compare power. The vice lords, God’s, 4 corner hustlers, then the kings, Spanish Disciples have manpower that the outfit never had. No doubt at one time vena was a very dangerous guy but like my other post said he goes away from violence now

I did a search and according to LE there are 117,000 gang members in 55 known gangs in the city. That averages out to over 2,000 members per gsng.


Pogo

117.000 seems an exaggeration unless by member they also mean those who urinate in public