General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Villain]

From the 1960s until his imprisonment in 92, Alex's second "home" was Florida also

[SolarSolano]

One more thing to note -- unless I'm missing something, these apparent meetings between NY/NJ and Chicago in this period seem to have only involved Cicero and MP guys? No mention that I see of Andriacchi, or anyone from Grand Ave. This could be due to longstanding personal links that we've already identified (and I know also that Carlisi had longtime ties to other LCN families), but also could signal that by this time Cicero/MP had already established itself as the dominant faction within the Outfit.

I think this is because of the time period - Cicero was the dominant crew. Phil Alderisio and a lot of guys from other crews had plenty of connections on the East Coast - I just think during the late 80s through the 90s, Cicero was representing Chicago and those guys were in the key spots.

[Villain]

Cicero/South Side (Chinatown)...dont forget Monteleone

[Pete]

Mike mags claimed the chin came to chicago which I find highly improbable. Everything you read about the chin says he barely left Greenwich village I doubt he would make the trip.

[Pete]

I believe Sam Carlisi also met with John Gotti in Florida in the late 80s. Outfit also attended a few Commission meetings in Florida throughout the 70s and 80s.

I know Mike Mags met Gotti too supposedly. Where did you get that Carlisi met with Gotti? I bet Carlisi who was old school wasn't too fond of that guy.

Villain can you elaborate on the connection between Jimmy "Jimmy Lap" LaPietra and the Luccheses?

I believe the story mags told as he was with carlisi in Florida and met gotti while with carlisi. Mags didn’t have the standing to meet with gotti on his own

[Pete]

Really interesting information here with this informant. It reinforces a lot of what we have suspected about the leadership structure.

One thing I would add. While there is no doubt that Ricca was the Official chairman or top boss until 1971/72, if you review as many FBI documents as you can get from 40s-60s There is no doubt that Tony Accardo held a significant sway over the organization during a lot of that time as well. It is my belief that while his title might not have been officially on the same level as Ricca, I believe certainly by 67 or 68 he had achieved a status that was about equal with Ricca in terms of their influence over the organization.

I know Villian has a theory that JB and Ricca had a falling out in the early 60s. This may be true, and perhaps his power waned during that time. However, I always revisit the Mary Farrell document from 57 or 58 where JB is chatting with Giancana. They are discussing commission matters, and while Accardos role may have been an “advisor” at that point, the tone of that conversation is clearly that of a superior talking to a subordinate. It is less Accardo giving him advice, and more Accardo out right telling him what to do. His power may have been reduced after that in the early 60s, but surely by the late 60s he was nearly on an equal footing with Paul Ricca. The FBI documents that villain posted previously from the early 70s that discusses the transition of power in the new leader ship, clearly states that Ricca and Accardo had been pretty much sharing power, and that Riccas position as a “co top boss” would not be replaced.

I agree on what you said. Besides all of the Cosa Nostra, organizational or operational things that went down, we must not forget that most of these guys were friends. Ricca and Accardo probably knew each other since the late 1920s, and besides their beef during the period of 1953-1955 (not early 60s), they still remained friends until the end.

But we also must not forget that Ricca was older than Accardo and was looked upon as a rising star in the underworld since 1926 or when Capone became his best man at his wedding, while Accardo was "nobody" at the time. So i think that Accardo probably looked at Ricca as some type of mentor and friend and as a matter of fact, from 1970 until Riccas death, we can see Accardo constantly driving Ricca around since their "lackey" Cerone was in prison at the time. Some say that Accardo cried at Riccas funeral which again was a sign for their long time friendship.

So my point is that their long time friendship and mutual respect was probably the key for sharing their power in Chicagos underworld at the time, and as they got older, i think that their official spots slowly stopped making difference between the two. But when Ricca died, Accardo obviously didnt share his spot with anyone and created an organization similar to the Third Reich. Members were killed for dealing dope, capos took the fall for him and went to jail, people were killed for breaking into his home, etc. Theres no question that the old man became supreme boss of the Outfit since there was no1 like Ricca next to him anymore

Thanks, this is a great summary.

I know it's been done before, but what factors precipitated the Ricca/Accardo split in the '50's? I'd imagine Accardo had been too brash and flashy (funny enough, a bit like Giancana later), and had brought too much heat and attention down with stuff like his narcotics involvement (can't have helped his relationship with Ricca much that Chicago media were referring to JB as the "kingpin" of narcotics in the Midwest), the horsemeat scandal, his ostentatious mansion etc. Following this, how was the split resolved?

Interesting I never heard of an accardo Ricca beef, didnt accardo say something about Ricca like he was the best friend a person could ever have? And I have trouble believing Ricca had a problem with where accardo lived as it was literally a 2 minute drive from one house to the other. Accardo was on Franklin Ricca lives on lathrop. Granted accardo house was way more ostentatious but still they lived 2 blocks from each other

[Villain]

Really interesting information here with this informant. It reinforces a lot of what we have suspected about the leadership structure.

One thing I would add. While there is no doubt that Ricca was the Official chairman or top boss until 1971/72, if you review as many FBI documents as you can get from 40s-60s There is no doubt that Tony Accardo held a significant sway over the organization during a lot of that time as well. It is my belief that while his title might not have been officially on the same level as Ricca, I believe certainly by 67 or 68 he had achieved a status that was about equal with Ricca in terms of their influence over the organization.

I know Villian has a theory that JB and Ricca had a falling out in the early 60s. This may be true, and perhaps his power waned during that time. However, I always revisit the Mary Farrell document from 57 or 58 where JB is chatting with Giancana. They are discussing commission matters, and while Accardos role may have been an “advisor” at that point, the tone of that conversation is clearly that of a superior talking to a subordinate. It is less Accardo giving him advice, and more Accardo out right telling him what to do. His power may have been reduced after that in the early 60s, but surely by the late 60s he was nearly on an equal footing with Paul Ricca. The FBI documents that villain posted previously from the early 70s that discusses the transition of power in the new leader ship, clearly states that Ricca and Accardo had been pretty much sharing power, and that Riccas position as a “co top boss” would not be replaced.

I agree on what you said. Besides all of the Cosa Nostra, organizational or operational things that went down, we must not forget that most of these guys were friends. Ricca and Accardo probably knew each other since the late 1920s, and besides their beef during the period of 1953-1955 (not early 60s), they still remained friends until the end.

But we also must not forget that Ricca was older than Accardo and was looked upon as a rising star in the underworld since 1926 or when Capone became his best man at his wedding, while Accardo was "nobody" at the time. So i think that Accardo probably looked at Ricca as some type of mentor and friend and as a matter of fact, from 1970 until Riccas death, we can see Accardo constantly driving Ricca around since their "lackey" Cerone was in prison at the time. Some say that Accardo cried at Riccas funeral which again was a sign for their long time friendship.

So my point is that their long time friendship and mutual respect was probably the key for sharing their power in Chicagos underworld at the time, and as they got older, i think that their official spots slowly stopped making difference between the two. But when Ricca died, Accardo obviously didnt share his spot with anyone and created an organization similar to the Third Reich. Members were killed for dealing dope, capos took the fall for him and went to jail, people were killed for breaking into his home, etc. Theres no question that the old man became supreme boss of the Outfit since there was no1 like Ricca next to him anymore

Thanks, this is a great summary.

I know it's been done before, but what factors precipitated the Ricca/Accardo split in the '50's? I'd imagine Accardo had been too brash and flashy (funny enough, a bit like Giancana later), and had brought too much heat and attention down with stuff like his narcotics involvement (can't have helped his relationship with Ricca much that Chicago media were referring to JB as the "kingpin" of narcotics in the Midwest), the horsemeat scandal, his ostentatious mansion etc. Following this, how was the split resolved?

Interesting I never heard of an accardo Ricca beef, didnt accardo say something about Ricca like he was the best friend a person could ever have? And I have trouble believing Ricca had a problem with where accardo lived as it was literally a 2 minute drive from one house to the other. Accardo was on Franklin Ricca lives on lathrop. Granted accardo house was way more ostentatious but still they lived 2 blocks from each other

Read my previous post regarding the beef....

Long time ago Snakes confirmed this to me by showing me info with a general statement like Accardo didnt want to step down for Ricca but there are more than few additional specifics....

When Ricca and Campagna got out of jail in 1947, they were the ones who removed Fischetti and placed Accardo as the new boss and also elevated Giancana as the new underboss since Campagna was one of Giancanas sponsors while Ricca was his "Godfather". Fischetti took a step back because of health issues.

So during that period Ricca wanted to keep things quiet mainly because he and Campagna were constantly under the watchful eye of both the goverment and the media and were constantly going in and out of court. Those were the days when both of them were still prosecuted for the national scandal regarding their early release.

But as you already said, Accardo had to buy that huge mansion and on top of that, by the late 40s his personal crew (EP) together with Joe Fuscos guys managed to screw up the whole cigarette business. That was strike one.

Strike two occurred, again like you already mentioned, with the horse meat scandal. During the trials both Ricca and Campagna were mentioned as being the leaders of the Outfit and this allegedly made Ricca quite made. First they lost one of their most lucrative rackets and second, they didnt need any additional heat at the time since both Ricca and Campagna were already with one foot in jail. In fact, years later few Outfit members were recorded by the feds while trash talking Accardo and that he never souldve brought that guy Siciliano into the game.

Strike three or the moment when Accardo crossed the line occurred in 1953/54, when he together with Bruno Roti (territorial boss of the South), Sam Hunt (crew boss under Rotis regime) and Ross Prio (t. boss of the North) tried to exclude the West Side faction from the whole bartenders and waiters union scheme. Accardo was quite close associate with Roti at the time and in fact they were the ones who created the new First Ward lineup during the early 50s with D'Arco and Marcy.

During those days Battaglia became the new boss of the west side mob under the jurisdiction of the underboss aka Giancana. So the enforcers who headed Accardos scheme were Paul Labriola and Jimmy Weinberg and i believe that these guys belonged to the EP crew. They were told never to mention any of the bosses' names if asked about the scheme and if they received pressure from some of the members, they were told to send them to one of Hunts guys (collateral damage).

The problem was that one of Labriolas old time associates Nick Kokenes was close friend of Alex and told him about the scheme. After that Alex went straight to Battaglia and told him everything.

Story goes Battaglia became mad and wanted a sit down with Labriola. During the sit dow, both Labriola and Weinberg made a huge mistake by threatening Battaglia with the names of Roti and Hunt.

Battaglia was Riccas guy and so in no time, contracts were given for the lives of both Labriola and Weinberg. Sources say that Roti and Hunt allegedly told everyone that they had nothing to do with the scheme and that the whole project was headed by Labriola himself. Also story goes that Weinberg begged Alex to get him off the hook and as a matter of fact, it was Alex who allegedly assured them that he can arrange another meeting which in fact was a trap for their own demise.

Shortly after their murders, a peace delegation made out of two Genovese big shots and former Capone associates, John Torrio and Tony Ricci, arrived in Chicago and held several meetings with both Ricca and Accardo in some North Side hotel (other sources say that other peace delegations also previously arrived in Chicago from NY but no names). On top of that, in 1955 both Capezio (Accardos best friend, protector and mentor) and Campagna (Riccas best friend and protector) died of natural causes, which i believe was the real moment for them to squash their beef and developed one strong alliance and new friendship that lasted until the end.

By the end of 1955 Hunt was out of Chicago and in 1956 died in NY i think, i dont remember right now. Also, by 1956 Rotis South Side mob was slowly taken over by Ferraro and Alex. In 57 Roti died and his son-in-law Caruso became a capo but wasnt able to control the whole South Side faction and thats why he was subordinate to Alex and Ferraro.

[SolarSolano]

I believe Sam Carlisi also met with John Gotti in Florida in the late 80s. Outfit also attended a few Commission meetings in Florida throughout the 70s and 80s.

I know Mike Mags met Gotti too supposedly. Where did you get that Carlisi met with Gotti? I bet Carlisi who was old school wasn't too fond of that guy.

Villain can you elaborate on the connection between Jimmy "Jimmy Lap" LaPietra and the Luccheses?

I believe the story mags told as he was with carlisi in Florida and met gotti while with carlisi. Mags didn’t have the standing to meet with gotti on his own

That old commenter "Logic" on ANP got Mags to talk about that story - wonder who that was? Seemed like a smart guy!

[SolarSolano]

https://www.americannewspost.com/michae ... ohn-gotti/

[Coloboy]

Listened to the first part of the John Touhy podcast with Frank Calabrese. It was an over an hour so I have not gotten to part two yet. No crazy new revelations but some interesting things I pulled out of it ...

1.) he confirmed a lot of what we suspect about the structure. Meaning non-Italians could rise high in the ranks as long as they made money. However, at its core made members were the true power in the organization.

2.) He does not buy the John Difronzo was an informant argument. His opinion is that everybody who was convicted of being at the spilitro murders had some other type of corroborative evidence outside of just Nick Calabrese’s testimony . His theory is that in addition to that, DiFronzo had so much money that the government might have been worried he could mount a serious defense team and beat any charges.

3,) he indicated that Mob superiors told everyone not to socialize in public with other mobsters. He said they were instructed to meet with their own immediate crew about once a month for a meal, but that was it. They did not encourage hanging out at social clubs like in New York.

4.) He says there was a huge increase in extortion attempts in 85/86 right when the bosses were convicted for the Vegas scheme. He mentions Connie’s Pizza and cacciatore real estate as victims of this surge. The reason was that Aiuppa and the higher ups were trying to raise funds to mount a world-class defense team for the case.

[Coloboy]

One more interesting story. He says some time in the 80s or 90s Difronzo tried to recruit frank calabrese sr. to come over to Elmwood Park. Says his dad was interested and wanted to do it because that crew had made so much legitimate money and he wanted in that game. However, he did not make the move because even though Difronzo was Angelo La Pietra’s superior at the time, he worried that Difronzo would die first and LaPietra might become the new boss at which point he would kill Frank Calabrese sr for the desertion.

[Villain]

Thanks, good stuff. It seems Frank Sr made the wrong bet by staying with the 26th crew and its interesting that during the late 80s/early 90s we can often hear the word "legitimate" being connected to the EP crew. Also they stopped socializing in public places (to an extent) since the late 60s

[Villain]

In the past I already asked some of the prime Detroit researchers like Scott etc. several times on what was the problem between Chicago and Detriot regarding the Frontier hotel in Vegas, but it seems that they either dont have a clue or didnt have the time to answer. (no disrespect to anyone and none is taken)

SOOO it seems that the 15 points in the Frontier which were kept by the Detriot family was probably a deal between them and the St Louis fam and possibly some other family (not KC), and as i previously suspected, the whole problem arose when Roselli disrespected the new Detriot leadership for losing over 250,000 dollars the first week. That was allegedly one of the reasons for which the Detriot family refused to sell the 15 points to the Chicago Outfit and possibly having a deal with another family, but in the end it was allegedly too late for any type of deal with Chicago since the Frontier was bought by Howard Hughes in December 1967.

[SolarSolano]

I have to assume that given their MO as mob guys, Accardo/Ricca/Giancana often fucked over smaller families and always took the lion's share from Vegas. These were greedy guys after all - I just wonder how popular Chicago was with Detroit.

[Villain]

I have to assume that given their MO as mob guys, Accardo/Ricca/Giancana often fucked over smaller families and always took the lion's share from Vegas. These were greedy guys after all - I just wonder how popular Chicago was with Detroit.

I agree. You can also read a lot about it in wiretaps regarding the Vegas case in which midwest families trash talked the Outfit and thats because they had to swallow whatever was given to them by the Chicago bosses....as for Detroit, i think we can see their opinion in the upper (previous) example lol