General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Villain]

Should be noted that the consiglio/council in Milwaukee referred to as the "seggia" translates to "chair", which would suggest Milwaukee saw the council members as "chairmen". Whether or not that translates to Chicago I have no idea, only pointing out that there is some precedent for that kind of language with the consiglio.

In the following one we can see Philly boss Angelo Bruno discussing the Outfits core and that besides becoming Sicilian again, according to Bruno himself, still bosses like Giancana didnt care if the guys who brought him money were Sicilian at all....

Just to add some context, when Bruno says Giancana is "like us" (Philadelphia) in not caring if someone is Sicilian or not, he is referring to the fact that the Philadelphia family had a huge number of mainlanders, particularly Calabresi and Abruzzesi, many of them in leading positions. In fact, at one point in the 1950s, the administration was made up entirely of men from Calabria, Abruzzo, and Potenza backgrounds, with no Sicilians on the admin.

The Calabrian faction was almost entirely autonomous under the family's consigliere Rugnetta, who acted like the boss of that faction (Angelo Bruno even calls him "rappresentante" of the Calabrians on one tape). Of course, there was still a Sicilian faction in Philadelphia through this time that cared about their heritage, but Bruno is simply saying the organization was no longer defined by ethnic background.

Also, the 500 Club was in Atlantic City. Big hangout for Frank Sinatra, so not surprising Giancana would also visit.

Good find and interesting that Bruno sees a parallel between Philadelphia and Chicago in terms of their loose approach to Italian ethnicity.

I don't see where Bruno says anything about money, though. Is there more to the excerpt that mentions money being a factor?

Thanks for the additional info on Philly and their mainlander faction and yeah, it seems that Bruno might be talking about the Calabrians. At first i thought the term "he treats people as he finds them" was about making cash or business deals with anyone he finds...ill see if theres any additional stuff

[Villain]

Do not confuse Chicago's "chairman of the board" and the Commission's chairman of the board, since in Chicago that position was almost equivalent to "boss of all bosses" (four groups aka "crime families" under one top admin - chairman and commission rep (Ricca), senior advisor or boss emeritus (Accardo), boss and commission rep (Giancana), underboss (Ferraro))

Later we have Accardo as the chairman, Alex as the boss emeritus and connections guy, Aiuppa as the boss, Nicoletti as the underboss and so on...

We’ve discussed this previously and I know I’m in the minority but I always thought the outfit was run more in tandem or committee. For instance when it was aiuppa accardo and cerone people say well accardo has final say, which could be true but has there been a time where it was proven the other Guys disagreed with him and he trumped them? To me they always made decisions together just like Ricca and Accardo did. I get for instance one guy has the most clout I just never saw an instance where accardo needed to flex and say no were doing this etc. it’s possible to aiuppa was just the liaison for instance when a hit went down in the 70’s or 80’s it was always this comes from the old man(aiuppa) which may or may not mean he discussed it with accardo before putting out a hit. Same thing more recent times I never saw anything that said marcello was a front boss and someone else gave him orders like people say. I think he did his own thing. What people forgot difronzo wanted out of day to day and didn’t wanna be involved for the most part which was confirmed by many people. I’ll forever believe after difronzo son died while he was in prison he was not the boss again could be semantics cuz he had enough juice to do anything but it’s been proven as apes was the boss till 01 then tornabene kept the seat warm until marcello got out and on and on.

Theres no question they always operated as a team and as a matter of fact, old man Humphreys once said the same thing. The problem is that there are dozens and dozens of evidences that in certain and important situations, Ricca had the last word followed by Accardo and we simply cannot ignore that. I already showed just one example regarding my claim...the 73 North Side meeting...these guys rarely voted but instead they were only called upon and were simply informed about their new leader who was handpicked by Accardo who in turn previously discussed it with Aiuppa and Alex

[Villain]

There are many evidences that the Outfit was always controlled by board of directors (usually 6 or 7 guys) which corresponds with what B and CC already mentioned to an extent. Im saying "to an extent" because we have top level guys on that same "consiglio" or "ruling body" who still had the last word and usually two of them were commission reps (top boss and boss). On top of that, from 1930s until the early 90s they also had non-Italians on that same table, a proof that Capones Americanized influence was still present, again to an extent.

It would be interesting to find out if the old Chicago Mafia had the same or similar type of hierarchy and territorial bosses, so we can see if it was simply inherited by the Capone/Mainlander organization, or it was brought by them as a "new" style for controlling the second largest city at the time. We must not forget that the main job for Chicagos top admin was to keep the organization in one piece and to prevent it from breaking into two or more factions. This is also very well documented

[Villain]

Should be noted that the consiglio/council in Milwaukee referred to as the "seggia" translates to "chair", which would suggest Milwaukee saw the council members as "chairmen". Whether or not that translates to Chicago I have no idea, only pointing out that there is some precedent for that kind of language with the consiglio.

In the following one we can see Philly boss Angelo Bruno discussing the Outfits core and that besides becoming Sicilian again, according to Bruno himself, still bosses like Giancana didnt care if the guys who brought him money were Sicilian at all....

Just to add some context, when Bruno says Giancana is "like us" (Philadelphia) in not caring if someone is Sicilian or not, he is referring to the fact that the Philadelphia family had a huge number of mainlanders, particularly Calabresi and Abruzzesi, many of them in leading positions. In fact, at one point in the 1950s, the administration was made up entirely of men from Calabria, Abruzzo, and Potenza backgrounds, with no Sicilians on the admin.

The Calabrian faction was almost entirely autonomous under the family's consigliere Rugnetta, who acted like the boss of that faction (Angelo Bruno even calls him "rappresentante" of the Calabrians on one tape). Of course, there was still a Sicilian faction in Philadelphia through this time that cared about their heritage, but Bruno is simply saying the organization was no longer defined by ethnic background.

Also, the 500 Club was in Atlantic City. Big hangout for Frank Sinatra, so not surprising Giancana would also visit.

Good find and interesting that Bruno sees a parallel between Philadelphia and Chicago in terms of their loose approach to Italian ethnicity.

I don't see where Bruno says anything about money, though. Is there more to the excerpt that mentions money being a factor?

Thanks for the additional info on Philly and their mainlander faction and yeah, it seems that Bruno might be talking about the Calabrians. At first i thought the term "he treats people as he finds them" was about making cash or business deals with anyone he finds...ill see if theres any additional stuff

Heres the whole convo...




And some additional info regarding Giancanas remarks on the commission...

[B.]

There are many evidences that the Outfit was always controlled by board of directors (usually 6 or 7 guys) which corresponds with what B and CC already mentioned to an extent. Im saying "to an extent" because we have top level guys on that same "consiglio" or "ruling body" who still had the last word and usually two of them were commission reps (top boss and boss). On top of that, from 1930s until the early 90s they also had non-Italians on that same table, a proof that Capones Americanized influence was still present, again to an extent.

It would be interesting to find out if the old Chicago Mafia had the same or similar type of hierarchy and territorial bosses, so we can see if it was simply inherited by the Capone/Mainlander organization, or it was brought by them as a "new" style for controlling the second largest city at the time. We must not forget that the main job for Chicagos top admin was to keep the organization in one piece and to prevent it from breaking into two or more factions. This is also very well documented

I think the info from the informant discussed earlier by Snakes sheds light on this. That informant told the FBI he had an Italian last name but was actually of Jewish ancestry, which he had to hide from the Chicago family as Jews couldn't be made. Hopefully Ed can reveal who this informant was, but it appears he was made otherwise he wouldn't have to hide his Jewish ancestry despite having an Italian last name.

Looking at what this informant told the FBI:

-Informant advised that a "Committee" (composed of the top individuals in the Chicago Outfit) run the Outfit with one member (the boss) being in charge. All of the members of the Committee were "made" (which the informant also describes as being in "the life") and Italian. The Committee was assisted by a group of influential and respected non-Italians who advised the Committee concerning certain areas of expertise. These individuals can not give orders to made members but oftentimes their suggestions are put in place by the "Committee" and their word is passed down to the rank and file via the Committee. In many cases, these non-Italians hold more power than most Outfit members, excepting those on the Committee. Paul Ricca is also described as being in an advisory position but does not take a more active role due to threats of deportation.

So he says the official members of the "Committee" were all made members of Italian ancestry. However, as the other bold parts indicate, the non-Italian powerhouses in Chicago were able to influence the organization through their relationship to the official Committee members and on a functional level had more power than many made members and indirectly participated in the Committee even though they couldn't officially participate.

Given he says the Committee is formally restricted only to made members of Italian ancestry, it could fit with the idea of the consiglio. Hard to say for sure, but if early Chicago had a consiglio like all of the other midwest families (and elsewhere), this Committee could be an evolution of the same idea.

-The informant described the Committee as consisting of Giancana, Jack Cerone, Fiore Buccieri, Sam Battaglia, and Accardo. The non-Italians are headed by Murray Humphreys and consist of Gus Alex, Ralph Pierce, Leslie Kruse, Edward Vogel, and Leonard Patrick. Buster Wortman is also consulted on Outfit matters in East St. Louis and certain parts of Kentucky.

So here he breaks it down, listing the official Committee as the Italian made members. He lists the influential non-Italians separately, but clearly he is listing them because of their power and influence. The fact that he mentions these non-Italians in context with the Committee makes it clear they were powerful.

-Informant described the non-Italian element as being particularly influential in gambling, legal matters, and the unions. The informant said that although these non-Italians can become "bosses" they cannot become made members. When new members are initiated into the Outfit the non-Italians are not allowed to be present during the ceremony but may be called in after its conclusion.

This sort of plays into the discussion you, CC, and I had a while back about organizational vs. functional set-up. The non-Italians were "bosses" over "gambling, legal matters, and unions", so their positions were largely related to functional matters. This is also where things can get very confusing, as he says the non-Italians are "bosses" yet aren't "made members". In a purely organizational mafia sense this would not make sense, as someone must be a made member to be a boss, but he is saying that they are "bosses" over certain operations, not "bosses" within the mafia organization.

The last sentence is also important, as he makes it clear the non-Italians cannot attend formal mafia inductions despite being "bosses" over certain operations. The fact that they are invited in after the formalities are concluded nonetheless shows that they were respected, powerful individuals -- it just shows that Chicago continued to restrict formalities to Italians. This is supported by the breakdown of the 1956 Ferriola induction, where only Italians are listed as attending.

-Informant stated that "caporegime" and "soldier" are not commonly used by the Outfit but he equated caporegimes with "district bosses" in Chicago while "soldiers" could be defined as those members working under said bosses. Informant estimated that there were approximately 150 made members of the Outfit but "thousands" in New York.

This is a good explanation, too, as we have a Chicago member(?) who understands that while the same language is not used, the position of caporegime/capodecina is synonymous with "district boss" and "soldiers" are synonymous with the made members under them (what Chicago may have called "crew bosses"). This fits with what non-Chicago member informants told the FBI, like Bompensiero and Fratianno calling Frank LaPorte a capo/caporegime.

Villain -- I think this informant is particularly valuable, as his info is the perfect balance between your views and mine, and it shows that we really don't see things that differently at the end of the day. Everything he says lends itself to the discussion we've been having in recent months.

I am very curious to hear what Ed finds out about this informant so that we can better judge his status in Chicago!

[B.]

Heres the whole convo...

Thanks for the added info. It's funny they bring up Pittsburgh, as I was going to mention them in my earlier post. Magaddino was recorded saying how at some point he was surprised to travel to Pittsburgh and find a Sicilian reporting to a Calabrian capodecina. Magaddino had Calabrian members, but maybe he kept them among their own like Philadelphia more or less did. Chicago of course didn't, as someone pointed out how Frank LaPorte had Sicilians reporting to him.

Cities like Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Chicago were much more open in terms of Italian ethnicity than some of the other cities, though of course Americanization would end up impacting most families one way or another. No question Chicago took it the furthest.

Very curious about Pat Massi's comment, re: 1947/"Charlie". He is almost certainly referring to Charlie Luciano, who Pat Massi is known to have visited during one of his many trips to Italy (Massi had a home there).

Also interesting Joe Profaci asked Massi what province he came from. Profaci was known to be pro-Sicilian and Massi was from Abruzzo on the mainland. We can see though that the Philadelphia leadership felt that pro-Sicilian attitude was out of touch by this time, as it says they were making fun of that old Sicilian attitude.

[Villain]

Heres the whole convo...

Thanks for the added info. It's funny they bring up Pittsburgh, as I was going to mention them in my earlier post. Magaddino was recorded saying how at some point he was surprised to travel to Pittsburgh and find a Sicilian reporting to a Calabrian capodecina. Magaddino had Calabrian members, but maybe he kept them among their own like Philadelphia more or less did. Chicago of course didn't, as someone pointed out how Frank LaPorte had Sicilians reporting to him.

Cities like Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Chicago were much more open in terms of Italian ethnicity than some of the other cities, though of course Americanization would end up impacting most families one way or another. No question Chicago took it the furthest.

Very curious about Pat Massi's comment, re: 1947/"Charlie". He is almost certainly referring to Charlie Luciano, who Pat Massi is known to have visited during one of his many trips to Italy (Massi had a home there).

Also interesting Joe Profaci asked Massi what province he came from. Profaci was known to be pro-Sicilian and Massi was from Abruzzo on the mainland. We can see though that the Philadelphia leadership felt that pro-Sicilian attitude was out of touch by this time, as it says they were making fun of that old Sicilian attitude.

I was wondering who that Charlie guy was so thanks.

Well we can see the term "capo sqadrone" being used by Pittsburgh which is something rare right?

[Snakes]

There are many evidences that the Outfit was always controlled by board of directors (usually 6 or 7 guys) which corresponds with what B and CC already mentioned to an extent. Im saying "to an extent" because we have top level guys on that same "consiglio" or "ruling body" who still had the last word and usually two of them were commission reps (top boss and boss). On top of that, from 1930s until the early 90s they also had non-Italians on that same table, a proof that Capones Americanized influence was still present, again to an extent.

It would be interesting to find out if the old Chicago Mafia had the same or similar type of hierarchy and territorial bosses, so we can see if it was simply inherited by the Capone/Mainlander organization, or it was brought by them as a "new" style for controlling the second largest city at the time. We must not forget that the main job for Chicagos top admin was to keep the organization in one piece and to prevent it from breaking into two or more factions. This is also very well documented

I think the info from the informant discussed earlier by Snakes sheds light on this. That informant told the FBI he had an Italian last name but was actually of Jewish ancestry, which he had to hide from the Chicago family as Jews couldn't be made. Hopefully Ed can reveal who this informant was, but it appears he was made otherwise he wouldn't have to hide his Jewish ancestry despite having an Italian last name.

Looking at what this informant told the FBI:

-Informant advised that a "Committee" (composed of the top individuals in the Chicago Outfit) run the Outfit with one member (the boss) being in charge. All of the members of the Committee were "made" (which the informant also describes as being in "the life") and Italian. The Committee was assisted by a group of influential and respected non-Italians who advised the Committee concerning certain areas of expertise. These individuals can not give orders to made members but oftentimes their suggestions are put in place by the "Committee" and their word is passed down to the rank and file via the Committee. In many cases, these non-Italians hold more power than most Outfit members, excepting those on the Committee. Paul Ricca is also described as being in an advisory position but does not take a more active role due to threats of deportation.

So he says the official members of the "Committee" were all made members of Italian ancestry. However, as the other bold parts indicate, the non-Italian powerhouses in Chicago were able to influence the organization through their relationship to the official Committee members and on a functional level had more power than many made members and indirectly participated in the Committee even though they couldn't officially participate.

Given he says the Committee is formally restricted only to made members of Italian ancestry, it could fit with the idea of the consiglio. Hard to say for sure, but if early Chicago had a consiglio like all of the other midwest families (and elsewhere), this Committee could be an evolution of the same idea.

-The informant described the Committee as consisting of Giancana, Jack Cerone, Fiore Buccieri, Sam Battaglia, and Accardo. The non-Italians are headed by Murray Humphreys and consist of Gus Alex, Ralph Pierce, Leslie Kruse, Edward Vogel, and Leonard Patrick. Buster Wortman is also consulted on Outfit matters in East St. Louis and certain parts of Kentucky.

So here he breaks it down, listing the official Committee as the Italian made members. He lists the influential non-Italians separately, but clearly he is listing them because of their power and influence. The fact that he mentions these non-Italians in context with the Committee makes it clear they were powerful.

A second informant (not believed to be the same as mentioned above) described a group of "elder statesmen" that comprised the top leadership of the Outfit, c. 1970/71. These men were Tony Accardo, Paul Ricca, Joey Aiuppa, Sam Battaglia, Fiore Buccieri, Frank LaPorte, and Ross Prio. This could be synonymous with the "Committee" mentioned above.

I also want to reiterate that I think this "leadership group" (however we want to describe it) initially consisted of the biggest earners and most powerful members and later evolved into specifically including the administration and territorial bosses before possibly disappearing sometime in the nineties due to the shrinking of the Outfit, although I could be way off here.

[B.]

Thanks for the other reference.

Interesting seven "elder statesmen" are mentioned by the 1970/71 informant, while five are mentioned on the "Committee" by the Italian-Jewish informant. I'm not trying to force the consiglio idea, only considering it, but the consiglio in other families appears to have always included an odd number of members (coincidentally five to seven) and is described as a "council", "chair" (seggia), and "inner ring" responsible for administering the organization and setting policy.

[Villain]

Thanks for the other reference.

Interesting seven "elder statesmen" are mentioned by the 1970/71 informant, while five are mentioned on the "Committee" by the Italian-Jewish informant. I'm not trying to force the consiglio idea, only considering it, but the consiglio in other families appears to have always included an odd number of members (coincidentally five to seven) and is described as a "council", "chair" (seggia), and "inner ring" responsible for administering the organization and setting policy.

Its cool man and i know that you are not forcing the idea since this fits with a lot of stuff and as i previouy said, Chicago sometimes had between 6 or 7 board members with Ricca being the "chairman", obviously later replaced by Accardo. But as I previously said, this "chairman" was "slightly" different than the commission's chairman for example

[Snakes]

Thanks for the other reference.

Interesting seven "elder statesmen" are mentioned by the 1970/71 informant, while five are mentioned on the "Committee" by the Italian-Jewish informant. I'm not trying to force the consiglio idea, only considering it, but the consiglio in other families appears to have always included an odd number of members (coincidentally five to seven) and is described as a "council", "chair" (seggia), and "inner ring" responsible for administering the organization and setting policy.

The first informant was not sure if Prio was on the "Committee" or not but had heard that he was from a secondary source. He also did not appear to be very familiar with LaPorte or the Heights so they very well could have been on it, he just wasn't aware.

[Frank]

Thanks for the other reference.

Interesting seven "elder statesmen" are mentioned by the 1970/71 informant, while five are mentioned on the "Committee" by the Italian-Jewish informant. I'm not trying to force the consiglio idea, only considering it, but the consiglio in other families appears to have always included an odd number of members (coincidentally five to seven) and is described as a "council", "chair" (seggia), and "inner ring" responsible for administering the organization and setting policy.

We think Ross Prio might have been on the Committee inthe early 60s. Informant says no, but later on says yes.

[Villain]

Thanks for the other reference.

Interesting seven "elder statesmen" are mentioned by the 1970/71 informant, while five are mentioned on the "Committee" by the Italian-Jewish informant. I'm not trying to force the consiglio idea, only considering it, but the consiglio in other families appears to have always included an odd number of members (coincidentally five to seven) and is described as a "council", "chair" (seggia), and "inner ring" responsible for administering the organization and setting policy.

We think Ross Prio might have been on the Committee inthe early 60s. Informant says no, but later on says yes.

Late 50s...



Early 60s...



Another interesting info but from the early 50s regarding top players and territorial stuff...even though Caifanos and DiVarcos names dont belong there still it confirms many theories...

[Villain]

I also want to reiterate that I think this "leadership group" (however we want to describe it) initially consisted of the biggest earners and most powerful members and later evolved into specifically including the administration and territorial bosses before possibly disappearing sometime in the nineties due to the shrinking of the Outfit, although I could be way off here.

I think you might be spot on...

[Villain]

Thanks for the other reference.

Interesting seven "elder statesmen" are mentioned by the 1970/71 informant, while five are mentioned on the "Committee" by the Italian-Jewish informant. I'm not trying to force the consiglio idea, only considering it, but the consiglio in other families appears to have always included an odd number of members (coincidentally five to seven) and is described as a "council", "chair" (seggia), and "inner ring" responsible for administering the organization and setting policy.

We think Ross Prio might have been on the Committee inthe early 60s. Informant says no, but later on says yes.

Late 50s...



Early 60s...



Another interesting info but from the early 50s regarding top players and territorial stuff...even though Caifanos and DiVarcos names dont belong there still it confirms many theories...

Some additional stuff regarding the same subject...

1940's



1956 (I believe in this one Alex was acting for Ferraro)