Montreal Mafia status - Post Rizzuto Era

[JohnnyS]

For somebody who isn't as clued up on Montreal/Canada LCN this info is much appreciated. Keep it up guys!

[Frank]

To put in proper context, Capeci has the Luchesses at 7 crews. I assume they are bigger than the Colombos. So even though they arnt an officially, formally recognized mafia family, ( still don't know the details of Vito's peace talks with New York..) they might be close to double the size ( as far as manpower) as TWO of the NY families, not even having considered any financial capabilities or scope of their contacts and resources.

Not sure that's the "proper context" at all but reading you guy's back and forth, its like Little Joe Shots is back.

Seriously, who the fuck is " Little Joe Shots"?

Why the insistence on making everything about what happened in the past, with past posters no one even recognizes... at least I dont.....


All the info availible, SO many unanswered questions, and your mind is still focused on the Ghost of Forums past......lol

The "proper context", is that the Montreal " crew", is much bigger than a SINGLE crew. Even in the book Ice, going back to the Cotroni days, it says there were 4 cells.
We've put TREMENDOUS effort trying to identify the 20 made Bonnanos. I dont know if the same effort has been put into identifying Rizzutos imported crew.

I really dont know what you are talking about... the guys expressed a burgeoning interest in the Montreal sagas.... it's really too much info to out in one post...

I merely touched on the idea that they seem too powerful to be JUST a regime. I said similar things about the Inzerillos, that they didnt SEEM like a regular regime, and we see now they never were. NEVER relinquished hope of regaining their standing IN SICILY.

I've never understood why the Caruanas-Cuntreras family would be subservient to a capo like Cotroni. And the Rizzutos, to me have always been closer to Agrigento than Brooklyn.....

But this has been debated adnauseum, we still dont have confirmation details on Vitos peace talks. We dont know for sure if there was reconciliation. But I REALLY dont think ALL those Montreal guys are taking orders from a Damiano Zummo, or a Morena. Especially AFTER MASSINO......


Some more " Context". The Bonnanos were kept out the concrete club. Yet in Montreal they had like, 80% of the construction contracts. If NY could kept em out, or taken a piece, they would have. They muscled the Colombos, a five family, why not the little regime up north?

I'm bored, it's your turn... GO...LOL

Maybe these cells or crews were independent and just paying Vito a street tax. Therefore not being in a Family. With the Rizzutos being a decina in the Bonanno Family.

[scagghiuni]

in terms of made members montreal is smaller than any ny family anyway, it's more violent but i don't think they have more manpower, even the colombo's have about 100 made members and 300 associates at least i think

[TommyGambino]

in terms of made members montreal is smaller than any ny family anyway, it's more violent but i don't think they have more manpower, even the colombo's have about 100 made members and 300 associates at least i think

about 50 made guys i think the colombos

[johnny_scootch]

in terms of made members montreal is smaller than any ny family anyway, it's more violent but i don't think they have more manpower, even the colombo's have about 100 made members and 300 associates at least i think

about 50 made guys i think the colombos

Pogo has 70 members on his list so add +10 for the unidentified guys and they're around 80 or more

[TommyGambino]

in terms of made members montreal is smaller than any ny family anyway, it's more violent but i don't think they have more manpower, even the colombo's have about 100 made members and 300 associates at least i think

about 50 made guys i think the colombos

Pogo has 70 members on his list so add +10 for the unidentified guys and they're around 80 or more

My bad. Got to wonder how many are actually active though with only five crews.

[scagghiuni]

in terms of made members montreal is smaller than any ny family anyway, it's more violent but i don't think they have more manpower, even the colombo's have about 100 made members and 300 associates at least i think

about 50 made guys i think the colombos

Pogo has 70 members on his list so add +10 for the unidentified guys and they're around 80 or more

My bad. Got to wonder how many are actually active though with only five crews.

with all those killed how many made members remain in montreal? sure less than the colombo's

[Pogo The Clown]

in terms of made members montreal is smaller than any ny family anyway, it's more violent but i don't think they have more manpower, even the colombo's have about 100 made members and 300 associates at least i think

about 50 made guys i think the colombos

Pogo has 70 members on his list so add +10 for the unidentified guys and they're around 80 or more

My bad. Got to wonder how many are actually active though with only five crews.

Capeci reported 75-85 members about 15 years ago. Don't know how many crews they have now but between 2008-2011 they disbanded at least 4 of their crews (Calabro, Gioeli, Carna and Florida). They did have 5 crews in early 1976 before the mass inductions began so 5 today seems likely especially considering how the Luccheses are down to 7 crews.


Pogo

[JohnnyS]

I would put the Colombos somewhere around 80 members. With only five crews and the problems that family have it cant be that many that are still active.

[johnny_scootch]

about 50 made guys i think the colombos

Pogo has 70 members on his list so add +10 for the unidentified guys and they're around 80 or more

My bad. Got to wonder how many are actually active though with only five crews.

I don't think that crew count is official. Those are the 5 captains we know about but there hasn't been any definitive info like we have with the Lucchese family at least I don't think we do. It being Pogos list maybe he can chime in and let us know what number he thinks they are at these days

[Pogo The Clown]

Not an official count. The 5 number was determined by factoring in the 4 disbanded crews from 2008-2011 and the Captains meetings that took place in 2011. Things could have changed since then but like I said up top the family had 5 Crews in 1976 (when they had a comparable membership count) so them being down to 5 now is not unreasonable.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

To put in proper context, Capeci has the Luchesses at 7 crews. I assume they are bigger than the Colombos. So even though they arnt an officially, formally recognized mafia family, ( still don't know the details of Vito's peace talks with New York..) they might be close to double the size ( as far as manpower) as TWO of the NY families, not even having considered any financial capabilities or scope of their contacts and resources.

Not sure that's the "proper context" at all but reading you guy's back and forth, its like Little Joe Shots is back.

Seriously, who the fuck is " Little Joe Shots"?

Why the insistence on making everything about what happened in the past, with past posters no one even recognizes... at least I dont.....


All the info availible, SO many unanswered questions, and your mind is still focused on the Ghost of Forums past......lol

The "proper context", is that the Montreal " crew", is much bigger than a SINGLE crew. Even in the book Ice, going back to the Cotroni days, it says there were 4 cells.
We've put TREMENDOUS effort trying to identify the 20 made Bonnanos. I dont know if the same effort has been put into identifying Rizzutos imported crew.

I really dont know what you are talking about... the guys expressed a burgeoning interest in the Montreal sagas.... it's really too much info to out in one post...

I merely touched on the idea that they seem too powerful to be JUST a regime. I said similar things about the Inzerillos, that they didnt SEEM like a regular regime, and we see now they never were. NEVER relinquished hope of regaining their standing IN SICILY.

I've never understood why the Caruanas-Cuntreras family would be subservient to a capo like Cotroni. And the Rizzutos, to me have always been closer to Agrigento than Brooklyn.....

But this has been debated adnauseum, we still dont have confirmation details on Vitos peace talks. We dont know for sure if there was reconciliation. But I REALLY dont think ALL those Montreal guys are taking orders from a Damiano Zummo, or a Morena. Especially AFTER MASSINO......


Some more " Context". The Bonnanos were kept out the concrete club. Yet in Montreal they had like, 80% of the construction contracts. If NY could kept em out, or taken a piece, they would have. They muscled the Colombos, a five family, why not the little regime up north?

I'm bored, it's your turn... GO...LOL

I don't disagree that the Rizzuto organization (which apparently is now considered separate by the feds) was bigger than a a crew in the Bonanno family. I'm questioning where the idea comes from that the Rizzutos had double the manpower of the two NY families. Maybe it stems from the long held idea that the Rizzutos were synonymous with the Italian underworld in Montreal or Quebec.

about 50 made guys i think the colombos

Pogo has 70 members on his list so add +10 for the unidentified guys and they're around 80 or more

My bad. Got to wonder how many are actually active though with only five crews.

I don't think that crew count is official. Those are the 5 captains we know about but there hasn't been any definitive info like we have with the Lucchese family at least I don't think we do. It being Pogos list maybe he can chime in and let us know what number he thinks they are at these days

We haven't gotten a recent insider picture of their crews like we did with the Luccheses.

112 members were cited in the 2004 NJ OC report. Capeci estimated 75-85 in 2005. I think gohngotti made a chart from 2010 that showed 98 members, if I recall correctly. A WSJ article put them at around 100 in 2014. Pogo's current forum chart shows around 70 last time I looked.

[CabriniGreen]

Maybe a better comparison would be the Cursoti from Milan....

Not a sanctioned mafia group, but engaged in high level criminal activity for decades, and constantly at war with the ruling Capello- Bornaccorsi, and Santopaola- Ercolano clans in Catania....


I was conservative, the Sixth family has the 4 cells under Cotroni, the 13 in Montreal under the Rizzutos, 4 under Dino Cuntrera, a huge Ontario regime.... I mean... I think there might have been some overlap counting these crews......

[stubbs]

I think too many of y’all are making the mistake of looking at Montreal through the lens of the five families. This seems to be wrong.

If the Bonannos have ten crews (random number to make a point), all ten of those crews are essentially all part of the same organization.

This doesn’t seem to be the case in Montreal. Montreal seems to be much more loosely organized than New York. So Montreal could have a bunch of crews, but some may be made Bonanno members, some may be made in the Sicilian mafia, some could be made by the Rizzutos (outside of Bonanno), and may even be not formally made and still command a lot of power in the streets.

I say this because I look at Montreal as a semi-open city where anyone can operate, as long as you kick up some tribute to Rizzuto. Like, Vito Rizzuto was more or less a diplomat and a politician who kept all of these different groups with different allegiances from going to war. As soon as he was out of the picture, all of these groups started fighting for turf.

So, Rizzuto’s power wasn’t the fact he commanded a loyal army that could rival the Colombos or whoever. It’s that he was able to make deals with all of these competing groups and convince them to make money together instead of going to war.

So, it’s far less formally structured in Montreal than in New York. If a five families boss goes to jail, the borgata just replaces them and keeps moving along. But in Montreal, Vito knew what would happen when he was arrested in 2004 and he even warned the cops what was going to come.

This is why Project Colisee hit them so hard, the Rizzutos group was actually small in numbers, so one bust and they’re all off the street. But the other groups were still out there and Dejardins faction tried seizing power in the vacuum. Same thing with the Scoppas. But none of them had the diplomacy skills that Vito had and they couldn’t get all of the different factions to work together.

[Frank]

I think too many of y’all are making the mistake of looking at Montreal through the lens of the five families. This seems to be wrong.

If the Bonannos have ten crews (random number to make a point), all ten of those crews are essentially all part of the same organization.

This doesn’t seem to be the case in Montreal. Montreal seems to be much more loosely organized than New York. So Montreal could have a bunch of crews, but some may be made Bonanno members, some may be made in the Sicilian mafia, some could be made by the Rizzutos (outside of Bonanno), and may even be not formally made and still command a lot of power in the streets.

I say this because I look at Montreal as a semi-open city where anyone can operate, as long as you kick up some tribute to Rizzuto. Like, Vito Rizzuto was more or less a diplomat and a politician who kept all of these different groups with different allegiances from going to war. As soon as he was out of the picture, all of these groups started fighting for turf.

So, Rizzuto’s power wasn’t the fact he commanded a loyal army that could rival the Colombos or whoever. It’s that he was able to make deals with all of these competing groups and convince them to make money together instead of going to war.

So, it’s far less formally structured in Montreal than in New York. If a five families boss goes to jail, the borgata just replaces them and keeps moving along. But in Montreal, Vito knew what would happen when he was arrested in 2004 and he even warned the cops what was going to come.

This is why Project Colisee hit them so hard, the Rizzutos group was actually small in numbers, so one bust and they’re all off the street. But the other groups were still out there and Dejardins faction tried seizing power in the vacuum. Same thing with the Scoppas. But none of them had the diplomacy skills that Vito had and they couldn’t get all of the different factions to work together.

I think that is a great description. Im sure alot of his power came from the fact that they were a Bonanno decina and were also close to other made Families.