Los Angeles odds & ends

[Adam]

I don't think they ever got close to that. The city of LA was just too big and they were always too small to really wield that sort of power on the streets.


Pogo

But Bugsy and Cohen did wield that kind of power, and their crew was never big.

Did Siegel and Cohen really have that much power? I mean, do keep in mind that Dragna and his crew were systematically eliminating Cohen's associates and nothing ever came of it.

[Pogo The Clown]

I don't think they ever got close to that. The city of LA was just too big and they were always too small to really wield that sort of power on the streets.


Pogo

But Bugsy and Cohen did wield that kind of power, and their crew was never big.

Did Siegel and Cohen really have that much power? I mean, do keep in mind that Dragna and his crew were systematically eliminating Cohen's associates and nothing ever came of it.

Yeah that is correct. They had their slice of the pie but were never "the power" as evidenced by what you said.

Jasper Matranga was in Adamo's crew, and DiMaria and Dragna were in Joe Dip's crew. Cascio wasn't a member. Locicero wasn't made until later.

I have no idea about Cascio but from what Ed wrote it sounds like Piscopo identified him as a member. Thanks for the other info.

Piscopo said Thomas Palermo had never been a particularly active member of the crime family. His brother-in-law and fellow member John Cascio owned a winery that was sometimes used for meetings and initiation ceremonies.

http://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/salvatorepiscopo.html

[Angelo Santino]

Best scene ever. Richard Serafian as Dragna knocked it out of the park.

Bugsy_(1991)_-_Bark_Like_a_Dog_Scene_(410)___Movieclips.gif

[johnny_scootch]

Borgia was "made" in the late 1940s. Piscopo indicated Borgia had been inducted into the crime family for the financial help he might give rather than for any criminal help he might provide.

Sounds a lot like Dominic Longo, seems like the LA family made some of it’s own Italian extortion victims and even kept extorting them afterwards although it would be considered ‘tribute’ at that point.

A soldier could transfer between two crime families if he had the permission of both bosses. Piscopo gave the example of former Los Angles Crime Family member Charles Battaglia who transferred his membership to the Arizona group led by Joseph Bonanno. (Battaglia would later regret the transfer.)

Wouldn't this be impossible unless the Bonanno/Tucson group was officially recognized by Cosa Nostra?

[motorfab]

Borgia was "made" in the late 1940s. Piscopo indicated Borgia had been inducted into the crime family for the financial help he might give rather than for any criminal help he might provide.

Sounds a lot like Dominic Longo, seems like the LA family made some of it’s own Italian extortion victims and even kept extorting them afterwards although it would be considered ‘tribute’ at that point.

A soldier could transfer between two crime families if he had the permission of both bosses. Piscopo gave the example of former Los Angles Crime Family member Charles Battaglia who transferred his membership to the Arizona group led by Joseph Bonanno. (Battaglia would later regret the transfer.)

Wouldn't this be impossible unless the Bonanno/Tucson group was officially recognized by Cosa Nostra?

It was a crew of the Bonanno Crime Family at the time, not an autonomous organization like Bonanno would have wanted after the Banana War (I don't know if that answers your question exactly ?)

[Pogo The Clown]

It would have been like Rochester. Members of a family in another city who broke off and did their own thing. Bill
Bonanno talks about in his book how after the war several loyalists members in NY moved to Arizona to be with them. He gave a number but I forgot what it was but it was around 20 or so. Previously the Bonannos had a Crew in Arizona which Bill had been Capo of.


Pogo

[johnny_scootch]

It was a crew of the Bonanno Crime Family at the time, not an autonomous organization like Bonanno would have wanted after the Banana War (I don't know if that answers your question exactly ?)

It would have been like Rochester. Members of a family in another city who broke off and did their own thing. Bill
Bonanno talks about in his book how after the war several loyalists members in NY moved to Arizona to be with them. He gave a number but I forgot what it was but it was around 20 or so. Previously the Bonannos had a Crew in Arizona which Bill had been Capo of.

Pogo

The article states he transferred to the Tucson group led by Joe Bonanno, so if this was prior to Bonanno being ousted it was a transfer to the Bonanno family. If it was after Bonanno had been banished it wasn't in effect a transfer but rather Battaglia almost self exiling himself because no one under Bonanno in Tucson was recognized by the rest of Cosa Nostra.

[motorfab]

Ok. Actually he transferred in 1956 when DeSimone passed Boss and he came back to the L.A. borgata in 1967 or 1968 after the banana war. So during the 50's-mid 60's the Arizona group was recognized as an official crew of the Bonanno Crime Family

[B.]

Is there more info on Tommy Palermo? He's another one who Fratianno wasn't impressed with, "where the hell they get this guy from?"

His uncle was early boss Rosario Desimone and he was part of that relation tree. Not surprised Fratianno wasn't impressed given he had been plotting against Palermo's cousin Frank Desimone the entire time Desimone was boss. Details from up above:

Tommy Palermo was also a cousin of Frank Desimone and Dallas boss Joe Civello. The LA Desimones / Palermos, Dallas Civellos / Mussos, and SF Lanzas were all related either by blood or marriage. Rosario Desimone also married a woman from Lucca Sicula in Pueblo before going to LA... can't connect her surname, but it's likely she was connected to the mafia there given that family was all from Lucca Sicula.

As for Battaglia, Bompensiero said he was trying to transfer back to Los Angeles as of August 1968 but was having trouble because of the Bonanno group's status:

Borgia was "made" in the late 1940s. Piscopo indicated Borgia had been inducted into the crime family for the financial help he might give rather than for any criminal help he might provide.

Sounds a lot like Dominic Longo, seems like the LA family made some of it’s own Italian extortion victims and even kept extorting them afterwards although it would be considered ‘tribute’ at that point.

Did Fratianno or anyone else actually say Longo was something like an extortion victim aside from him being good for a "touch" now and again? Look back at the long post about Longo on the last page. He appears to have been part of a well-connected family in the Ontario / Buffalo underworld and was on record with Los Angeles by 1964.

Longo employed Brooklier and other LA figures in small jobs, so the "touch" comment may have involved that. They very well may have been using him, though I'm thinking there is more to the story as far as his membership in LA goes.

Curious about Cascio. DeCavalcante member Joseph Lolordo married a Cascio in Los Angeles in the 1920s before going to Chicago and then NYC.

[Antiliar]

I don't think they ever got close to that. The city of LA was just too big and they were always too small to really wield that sort of power on the streets.


Pogo

But Bugsy and Cohen did wield that kind of power, and their crew was never big.

Did Siegel and Cohen really have that much power? I mean, do keep in mind that Dragna and his crew were systematically eliminating Cohen's associates and nothing ever came of it.

Yeah that is correct. They had their slice of the pie but were never "the power" as evidenced by what you said.

Jasper Matranga was in Adamo's crew, and DiMaria and Dragna were in Joe Dip's crew. Cascio wasn't a member. Locicero wasn't made until later.

I have no idea about Cascio but from what Ed wrote it sounds like Piscopo identified him as a member. Thanks for the other info.

Piscopo said Thomas Palermo had never been a particularly active member of the crime family. His brother-in-law and fellow member John Cascio owned a winery that was sometimes used for meetings and initiation ceremonies.

http://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/salvatorepiscopo.html

"COSCIO [sic], while not a member of the Los Angeles brugad..."
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 9&tab=page

[Pogo The Clown]

Thanks for clearing this up.


Pogo

[Ed]

I don't think they ever got close to that. The city of LA was just too big and they were always too small to really wield that sort of power on the streets.


Pogo

But Bugsy and Cohen did wield that kind of power, and their crew was never big.

Did Siegel and Cohen really have that much power? I mean, do keep in mind that Dragna and his crew were systematically eliminating Cohen's associates and nothing ever came of it.

Yeah that is correct. They had their slice of the pie but were never "the power" as evidenced by what you said.

Jasper Matranga was in Adamo's crew, and DiMaria and Dragna were in Joe Dip's crew. Cascio wasn't a member. Locicero wasn't made until later.

I have no idea about Cascio but from what Ed wrote it sounds like Piscopo identified him as a member. Thanks for the other info.

Piscopo said Thomas Palermo had never been a particularly active member of the crime family. His brother-in-law and fellow member John Cascio owned a winery that was sometimes used for meetings and initiation ceremonies.

http://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/salvatorepiscopo.html

"COSCIO [sic], while not a member of the Los Angeles brugad..."
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 9&tab=page

I linked to the same FBI document in my article.

But five years later, in 1968, Piscopo stated Cascio was a member(or at the very least, the FBI said Piscopo said Cascio was a member.) So I went with the latest info regarding his membership. (Of course, maybe Piscopo was correct in 1963 and wrong in 1968.)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 4&tab=page

(T-6 is Piscopo)

I should have included the second link in the article to be clearer. I can see where a reader, if he checked the endnote, would be confused. Sometimes when I edit articles I cut endnotes that I think at the time are extraneous but in hindsight are not. I hope no one feels I tried to mislead them.

My article was about what Piscopo told the FBI, but at the time I was writing, I was probably influenced by a 1977 report from the Organized Crime & Criminal Intelligence Branch of the California Department of Justice that also states Cascio was a member.

As an aside, here are Cascio's details from the 1977 report.

John Cascio

AKA: John Collura, Mike Calder
DOB: 3-1-04 Palermo, Sicily
PHY: 5'5 150# Brown eyes, Grey hair
CII: 32 844
FBI: 184009
CDL: V345891
LKA: 9421 Stokes Ave, Downey, CA
OCC: Winery Owner

Cascio allegedly immigrated to US from Sicily in 1925. He bought the Big Tree Winery in 1947. The winery was doing $900,000 in sales annually by 1971.

Cascio was arrested in 1928 for possession of a still. Charge was dismissed. The report indicates he was alive in 1977 but it isn't always accurate.

Pogo, thanks for linking to my article.

Antiliar, thanks for keeping me on my toes.

[Costigan]

That's a great article on Dago Louie Piscopo. I thought this particular paragraph on LT Dragna was interesting. Seems like it wasn't only Jimmy Fratianno who resented him...

Former consigliere, Tom Dragna, lived in Las Vegas. Dragna had fallen out of favor with the new leadership and was mostly retired. [55] Piscopo said that "resentment" had built up among members during the last few years of Jack Dragna's time as boss as it became apparent that Jack and Tom Dragna were "grooming" Tom's son Louis Tom Dragna for "leadership" in the crime family. [56] This didn't sit well with other members because Louis Tom Dragna had never "proved" himself. Piscopo said he "had no particular abilities." [57] After Jack Dragna died in 1956, the resentment spilled out into the open and the new leadership decided to hold a "trial" for Tom Dragna and his son. They were found guilty and were sentenced to death. According to Piscopo, only the intervention of New York crime boss Thomas Lucchese saved their lives. According to Piscopo, Desimone and Licata were still concerned about Louis Tom Dragna's ambitions into the 1960s. Joseph Dippolito, Dragna's caporegime, was under instructions to keep on an eye on him and to report back any suspicious activity.

Copied from: http://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/salvatorepiscopo.html

The article also included a photo of the oft mentioned Tommy Palermo. I don't think I ever saw it before. Thanks Ed.

[johnny_scootch]

Did Fratianno or anyone else actually say Longo was something like an extortion victim aside from him being good for a "touch" now and again? Look back at the long post about Longo on the last page. He appears to have been part of a well-connected family in the Ontario / Buffalo underworld and was on record with Los Angeles by 1964.

Longo employed Brooklier and other LA figures in small jobs, so the "touch" comment may have involved that. They very well may have been using him, though I'm thinking there is more to the story as far as his membership in LA goes.

You're right the "soft touch" comment is probably not 100% true because in the same breath Pete Milano says that Longo did a piece of work with Peanuts Tronolone, so he was at least capable of taking part in a murder. Longo was also important enough (probably because of those familial connections you mentioned) to be sent as an emissary of Brooklier to Detroit with Sam Sciortino to explain to them that Frattiano was misrepresenting himself as acting Boss of LA. On the other hand if we are to believe Frattiano's account of this meeting Milano calling him a soft touch and laughing about taking money off him once in a while in front of the top members of the family doesn't speak well for his reputation locally.

[B.]

Did Fratianno or anyone else actually say Longo was something like an extortion victim aside from him being good for a "touch" now and again? Look back at the long post about Longo on the last page. He appears to have been part of a well-connected family in the Ontario / Buffalo underworld and was on record with Los Angeles by 1964.

Longo employed Brooklier and other LA figures in small jobs, so the "touch" comment may have involved that. They very well may have been using him, though I'm thinking there is more to the story as far as his membership in LA goes.

You're right the "soft touch" comment is probably not 100% true because in the same breath Pete Milano says that Longo did a piece of work with Peanuts Tronolone, so he was at least capable of taking part in a murder. Longo was also important enough (probably because of those familial connections you mentioned) to be sent as an emissary of Brooklier to Detroit with Sam Sciortino to explain to them that Frattiano was misrepresenting himself as acting Boss of LA. On the other hand if we are to believe Frattiano's account of this meeting Milano calling him a soft touch and laughing about taking money off him once in a while in front of the top members of the family doesn't speak well for his reputation locally.

Good points all around. Though with the last part, these guys are prone to so much backbiting it is hard to say how it all worked out in reality.

Did Fratianno say Brooklier sent Longo and Sciortino to Detroit to spread word about Fratianno? Had Fratianno misrepresented himself to Detroit or were they just keeping them in the loop on LA politics? I appreciate you refreshing me on all of this.