Cleveland Crime Family

[cavita]

Fank Trent Saladino is no relation first off. Second, I know the FBI, based on what Nick Calabrese probably told them, was that Saladino was the boss of Rockford in 2001. I can plainly state this is not true from my personal knowledge of Frank. Indications are at best he was a capo directing associates. In typical Rockford capo fashion which was the norm for years, he made gambling and street tax collections. From the 80s up through the late 90s I NEVER heard Frank referred to as boss of anything. I hold firm that Nick Calabrese was led to believe or just personally believed himself that Frank was the boss
Frank had a lot of swagger, was loud and over the top. He was always out and about and never kept his head down or was low key like a boss should be. Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm still busy trying to find more info through FBI files and i think the FBI is still not releasing his files but I should probably try again and see.

OK, just wondered. I met him years ago at a convention, shook hands that was about it.

Thank you for explaining the layout of things in Rockford. I feel you've laid things out the way they are.

However, I'd like to make the same argument that if Saladino was recognized by Chicago (and other places) as the boss and not a Chicago Family member then its possible he was official boss. You indicate that he was "like a capo directing associates," that would be the same scenario in Cleveland due to absence of a structure/membership. As for his conduct, there's no rule saying he can't act like that, and other cities wouldn't care, they'd regard him as a point of contact there and recognize him. This doesn't change the fact that in 2005 there was literally nothing there, no one is going to scrape under Rockford (or any other few-membered families) and discover a fully formed Family the feds weren't aware of (except in the single case of Buffalo). If that is the bar we're going by then there is no Family. But If Chicago and other groups recognize one member Saladino as Rockford's boss then they were technically still a Family within the eyes of the Mafia.

I'm not saying this is the case and I hope it doesn't come across like I'm telling you your own city. Just something to consider, it won't change the fact that Rockford is done and likely has been for some time. If DiFronzo was an informant and we ever get to read what he provided, he may even touch upon it. Would there be a way we could contact the Calabreses and ask them to expand on this?

For what it's worth going back to at least the early 80s in Rockford, those in the Italian community kind of stopped referring to the boss as the boss. People would just say "he's the man." Whatever the reason was I don't know. I think it had a lot to do with the 1984 newspaper expose on them. Yes, Rockford stopped appearing on the FBIs list of families in the 1980s even though FBI files from the 90s still referred to a boss and members. I never saw an official FBI release that stated they were absorbed by Chicago and conversely I never see any Rockford guys appearing on FBI lists as Chicago made members which one would think would happen- which apparently happened when the two Madison members joined Milwaukee.
I like black and white because it's easy. Researching the LCN has made me just accept things aren't always black and white but I still like to have those official files telling me one way or the other.
When I would go back to Rockford for visits to the Italian social clubs, general talk was that Sal Galluzzo was "the man." A reporter I had spoken to who had written articles about the Rockford LCN said as much from off the record interviews with officials and Italian community members.
Nowadays when I visit, once in a while I'll hear someone say "oh, he's Mafia" when referring to this guy or that guy. Is it true? Is it assumption or is it fear carried over from years ago? I don't have an answer but hopefully I'll have a better understanding when I get more files I've requested.

[Pogo The Clown]

I think your forgetting that 9 members and associates were indicted around the same time of the family secrets trial for running a multi million dollar bookmaking operation that had been in operation since the early 80’s. So to say there was literally nothing there is not really accurate. Rockford has always been under the radar and tight knit. See article links. All the guys that were arrested are out of jail. They all did minimal time. Joe Saldino is considered by most as the current boss. I don’t know if that is true or not.

-First: None of those arrested were identified as members. They weren't even identified as LCN Associates. From. some of the names we can assume that some of these guys had some connections to LCN but the fact that the article didn't feel the need to even mention it shows how loose and insignificant those connections were.


-Second: I don't know where you are getting multi million dollar operation from. They never even got close to a million dollars over a several year period. These guys were strictly small time even by typical small potatoes standards.

Officials believe the operation, which dated back to the early 1980s, netted more than a half-million dollars over the years and, at times, $2,000 a day.

-Third: You are using a pissant gambling bust with loose LCN ties from 14 years ago to prove that there is still a family in Rockford in 2020.


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

For what it's worth going back to at least the early 80s in Rockford, those in the Italian community kind of stopped referring to the boss as the boss. People would just say "he's the man." Whatever the reason was I don't know. I think it had a lot to do with the 1984 newspaper expose on them. Yes, Rockford stopped appearing on the FBIs list of families in the 1980s even though FBI files from the 90s still referred to a boss and members. I never saw an official FBI release that stated they were absorbed by Chicago and conversely I never see any Rockford guys appearing on FBI lists as Chicago made members which one would think would happen- which apparently happened when the two Madison members joined Milwaukee.
I like black and white because it's easy. Researching the LCN has made me just accept things aren't always black and white but I still like to have those official files telling me one way or the other.
When I would go back to Rockford for visits to the Italian social clubs, general talk was that Sal Galluzzo was "the man." A reporter I had spoken to who had written articles about the Rockford LCN said as much from off the record interviews with officials and Italian community members.
Nowadays when I visit, once in a while I'll hear someone say "oh, he's Mafia" when referring to this guy or that guy. Is it true? Is it assumption or is it fear carried over from years ago? I don't have an answer but hopefully I'll have a better understanding when I get more files I've requested.

Same. We are only as good as our sources. They can be imperfect but they are the best we've got to go on.

"The Man" is a term I believe was also used in Chicago and Tampa to describe the bosses there. Without an informant or former member in Rockford its hard to say what their internals were. If a reporter approached Galluzzo asking if he's the new boss he's not going to correct them: "We call it The Man and for the record I'm underboss." Without that we are left on the outside looking in. It's similar to Detroit in the 1960's, the chart contained 130 names yet one informant gave a number of 64 or some number. We don't have many informants explaining the hierarchy, only outside speculation based on perception. Detroit had powerful members that we see and want to say "capo" which is why there's been estimates of 17 captains when I'd be surprised if there were more than six.

I can't speak for whether or not there's members there today but if there's still family ties between Rockford and Aragona which members there wished to capitalize on, why not call up their relatives in Rockford and discuss investing in jukeboxes or something else, similar to what we're seeing with Ribera-Canada and Sciacca-LA. This is speculation and if this did occur it would not mean Rockford is resurrected and that there's a Family. But it would technically be mafia activity, we just can't measure it because they're not leaving bodies in the street.

[Patrickgold]

I think your forgetting that 9 members and associates were indicted around the same time of the family secrets trial for running a multi million dollar bookmaking operation that had been in operation since the early 80’s. So to say there was literally nothing there is not really accurate. Rockford has always been under the radar and tight knit. See article links. All the guys that were arrested are out of jail. They all did minimal time. Joe Saldino is considered by most as the current boss. I don’t know if that is true or not.

-First: None of those arrested were identified as members. They weren't even identified as LCN Associates. From. some of the names we can assume that some of these guys had some connections to LCN but the fact that the article didn't feel the need to even mention it shows how loose and insignificant those connections were.


-Second: I don't know where you are getting multi million dollar operation from. They never even got close to a million dollars over a several year period. These guys were strictly small time even by typical small potatoes standards.

Officials believe the operation, which dated back to the early 1980s, netted more than a half-million dollars over the years and, at times, $2,000 a day.

-Third: You are using a pissant gambling bust with loose LCN ties from 14 years ago to prove that there is still a family in Rockford in 2020.


Pogo

Your a complete idiot. Those guys weren’t even identified as LCN associates? Why don’t you do some I research on each of those individuals. You are clueless. Those guys were supposed to be tried with the family secret trial but they ended up separating it. I guess it’s just another indictment that doesn’t prove anything, right?

[Pogo The Clown]

The article you linked to made no mention of LCN. So no they were not indemnified as LCN Associates in the article (or in their indictment since the article would surely have mentioned it). That said I myself said some of them likely had ties to LCN. Do you have anything that says these guys were going to be part of the Family Secrets indictment but were severed or did you just pull that out of your ass as usual? And if they were going to be part of Family Secrets, as you are saying, wouldn't that point to this gambling ring being more of a Chicago operation than a Rockford Family operation?


Pogo

[Patrickgold]

They were watching it for 5 years and it brought in half million. Open since the early 80’s and you don’t think it’s multi million? I love how you think you can determine the amount an organization has to make to be considered a LCN organization. Why don’t you actually do some real research and stop acting like you are actually knowledgeable about these subjects.

In response to question, do some actual research on the subject and figure out how they found these guys. Then tell me if it was connected to the family secrets trial.

[Pogo The Clown]

So I take it you don't have anything saying these guys were going to be part of the Family Secrets indictment but were severed? So as usual you simply made it up.


And reading right from the article.

Officials believe the operation, which dated back to the early 1980s, netted more than a half-million dollars over the years and, at times, $2,000 a day.

And sorry but "netted more than a half a million over the years" does not equate to a multi million dollar operation as you claimed.


Pogo

[B.]

Such a thread sounds interesting. What challenges in 2014 are you referring to?

Let me get my thoughts together and I'll start it.

In 2014 Rick and I wrote an article where we try to explain the formation of NY 1860-1920. We wrote it backed up everything with sources so it could pass The Wiseguy Scrutiny Test by others who may have doubted our findings. Ten years ago if I read an article with Masseria being arrested with 5 Italian names I would include them as early Genovese members. Today my conclusion would be they might have been amico nos but unless confirmed by an informant then its lost to history. That's what I mean when I say you encourage people to make stronger evidence-based cases.

You told me to be ready to nitpick it when it came out and I did my best. The most controversial claim I could find is that Cascio Ferro was a Morello member and even then there is a strong argument to be made for that and I have no slam dunk counter-evidence that proves otherwise, only circumstantial info/reasoning. That this was the only thing I could really challenge speaks to the article's reasoning and sources.

I'm not kissing your ass, I just think it's worth everybody's time to comb through Informer issue May 2014 and absorb what's there. Even though things have come a long way in the last ten years even, I believe a lot of misunderstandings about the mafia still stem from people not understanding the continuity / connections that date back to the 1800s + 1900s-1910s.

It's also helped with other research. For example, the discovery that the Governale-Orlando-Schiro clan likely started the "Bonanno" family before the Castellammarese were much of a presence has explained how early figures like consigliere Filippo Rappa fit in -- he was from Borgetto and immigration records show relation/connection to the earlier Governale-Orlando-Schiro clan. Rappa was likely elected consigliere after the Castellammarese took over as a remnant of the earlier leadership regime. It also explains why, during an era of political marriages, Joe Bonanno married into the Camporealesi.

[cavita]

They were watching it for 5 years and it brought in half million. Open since the early 80’s and you don’t think it’s multi million? I love how you think you can determine the amount an organization has to make to be considered a LCN organization. Why don’t you actually do some real research and stop acting like you are actually knowledgeable about these subjects.

In response to question, do some actual research on the subject and figure out how they found these guys. Then tell me if it was connected to the family secrets trial.

Just to be a little more clear regarding the 2006 gambling bust, the Assistant U.S. Attorney at that trial kept trying to bring up the fact the gambling operation was in partnership with the Outfit and kept referencing the Family Secrets trial. Judge Philip Reinhard twice told the AUSA that he couldn't mention that because the death of Frank Saladino severed the others from that trial. It was my understanding from the trial that the $500,000 number that was given was only what the US could prove was bet through testimony and evidence over that number of years.
The government stated the operation went back to at least the early 1980s but I was in fact part of an ongoing floating gambling operation going back to at least the mid 1960s. This gambling operation was directly overseen by capo Charles Vince from the 1960s through the 1980s and was then overseen by capo Sebastian Gulotta. After Gulotta's death, this responsibility was passed on to Frank Saladino.
Not to stir the pot or take sides either way, but this is how it was.

[cavita]

I remember several years back some MF documents were posted that went deep into the process of how Madison disbanded. I'm going from memory so some of my details may be off.

But they had about 10 members left with a Boss and UnderBoss. They got to the point that their level of activity got so low that they got together to vote to disband the family. My memory may be playing tricks on me but I seem to remember that about 2 members (still criminally active?) wanted to continue so were allowed to transfer to the Milwaukee family. I think the formality of the remaining members getting together to vote to disband (or asking NY to do like Birmingham) has gone by the wayside like so many other traditions.

My take way from it was they viewed criminal activity as the basis for their existence and that without it there was no point in being a family so they got together to officially disband. This seems to have been Angelo Lonardo's view when he said there was no family in Clevleand but added that it could come back if some of the members got out of prison and they inducted new members.

Awesome, that's a great example. Totally slipped my mind.

I can only find an online write-up about it, but the source was Milwaukee member informant Augie Maniaci:

This was all perhaps for naught on the part of the FBI as federal informants continually pointed out that although Caputo was the undisputed boss, he was a boss of a family that was more or less inactive since the 1940s. Interestingly, a May 21, 1973 FBI report detailed a conversation that a Milwaukee informant (made member Augie Maniaci) had with Rockford members Charles Vince, Frank Correnti, Phil Emordeno, Sebastian Gulotta, Joe Maggio and Phil Priola regarding the Madison LCN. Charles Vince, who was Rockford’s capo, told Maniaci that the Madison family had recently disbanded by vote. Two of the members voted to keep the family intact while the rest voted against it. The family did indeed disband and the two who voted in favor ended up joining the Milwaukee family. Maniaci then told his FBI handlers that the dissolution of the Madison family didn’t surprise him because, “they haven’t had anything but bad breath and armpits going for them for more than ten years.”

I've seen similar accounts of Madison being mostly criminally inactive basically since post-prohibition period. I'm sure lack of criminal activity played a role, as we know that is a large part of what these families do, though it doesn't say what the exact motivation was for a formal break-up. Maniaci heard it second-hand from the Rockford member and this excerpt doesn't say anything specific about Madison's internal reasoning. Maybe there is more in the original report if we find it.

Things to consider:

- The same informant, Augie Maniaci, told the FBI in 1965 that Frank Balistrieri told him he now had "authority" over the Madison family, but Maniaci felt this would require Chicago's approval.

- In 1968, Maniaci told the FBI that Balistrieri had tried to take over the Madison family in 1966, was unsuccessful, and that Madison was now under the Chicago family while still remaining a standalone family with their own boss.

- The Chicago connection in both accounts makes sense, as in other reports Maniaci told the FBI the Madison leadership were originally Chicago members in the 1920s.

I'm sure lack of activity played a role, though Madison may have voted to disband to avoid Balistrieri's attempts to meddle with them. The two Madison members who went with Milwaukee wouldn't have required Milwaukee's approval to engage in criminal activity, so it's more likely they supported Balistrieri's earlier attempts to influence Madison. Typically outside attempts to influence a family also have some support from the inside, so without deeper info this is one possibility. There were issues between Madison and Milwaukee, so it makes sense why most members wouldn't have been assigned to them.

Because only two members transferred to Milwaukee, where did the other members go? No affiliation? Birmingham was allegedly placed under Tom Gagliano decades earlier, then retired Frank Valenti was placed with LA by the Commission over a decade later. The other ex-Madison members would still need formal assignment regardless of their activity level and we know two members were re-assigned. It's likely they belonged to Chicago, who Maniaci said already controlled the family in 1968 and where Caputo, Aiello, and others had already been members in the 1920s.

A decision to formally disband a family would be a political decision. On a practical level, Madison had been "inactive" for many years and no sources disagree, so it doesn't make sense that they would suddenly decide to disband because of no criminal activity. If we look at the years leading up to Madison's break-up, we see they wanted to be left alone but were part of a political struggle between Milwaukee and Chicago. Breaking up ensured they'd be left out of it.

Another reason could be by 1973 there had been over a decade of intense FBI scrutiny, media coverage, and it was well-known that the US mafia had been infiltrated by informants. The Godfather had also come out the year previous. Bosses of similarly low-key families like San Francisco and San Jose had nervous breakdowns in the years leading up to this. Given Madison had little interest in the operational side of mafia activity for decades, they may have decided all of this external scrutiny wasn't worth it.

- It's surprising San Francisco didn't vote to disband. James Lanza ordered his members not to engage in criminal activity and he refused to meet anyone but his underboss. This continued throughout the 1970s and there was virtually no activity but they remained a family. Anthony Lima did want to become boss again and resume inducting members, though he was also an FBI informant.

- Joe Cerrito behaved similarly to Lanza in San Jose. San Jose still had more influence from other US families, though, which likely influenced them to stay together and remain slightly more "active" than SF.

Super glad you remembered Madison. It shows that the process of disbanding from within was a formal process that was voted on and resulted in at least some re-assignments. I suspect it had to do with Balistrieri, the politics between Milwaukee and Chicago, and LE/public scrutiny, though again maybe the original report has more on their internal reasoning.

I don't know that we can assume what various families have done or didn't do without similar reports. We have Madison taking a very formal approach to disbanding, while San Francisco remained a family even though they were in a similar state to Madison. Five years earlier New Orleans may have had as few as five members but decided to induct new members rather than disband or die out. There doesn't seem to be one single motivation or set of circumstance that motivates a small, dwindling family to disband vs. stay together or even induct new members.

This is how the situation on the Madison family went;

IMG_20200813_180536009.jpg

[B.]

Awesome, brother. Thank you! So we can't say for sure what the internal motivation was for Madison deciding to disband after decades of near-inactivity, only that it was a formal process. Maniaci previously reported that Caputo took over in the mid-1960s when the previous Madison boss died and they maintained at least a boss and underboss, both of whom Maniaci said were wholly involved in their legitimate businesses.

I suspect Maniaci's reports from 1965-1968 about Madison dealing with machinations between Frank Balistrieri and Chicago could have played a role in the situation, though I'm hesitant to speculate too much. Given there was little to no criminal activity to absorb, Balistrieri and Chicago's interests would seem political. From reports on St. Louis and other reports about Milwaukee, there seems to have been continual competition for political influence over small families in the midwest.

[Angelo Santino]

Interesting, don't have anything else to say but: informative. Thank you.

Also, Cavita, if I said anything in the Saladino post that you disagree with, you won't offend me by disagreeing, if you think I'm wrong I'd welcome your criticism. I enjoy discussing it and its never personal, only a search for truth.

Salut.

[cavita]

Interesting, don't have anything else to say but: informative. Thank you.

Also, Cavita, if I said anything in the Saladino post that you disagree with, you won't offend me by disagreeing, if you think I'm wrong I'd welcome your criticism. I enjoy discussing it and its never personal, only a search for truth.

Salut.

No problem here on my part, just trying to solve the riddles. I am continually frustrated with vague and redacted FBI reports and the fact this and Madison are smaller less researched families. The burden is on is as researchers. It's doubly frustrating for me as I'm left trying to find proof for things I was told and observed. Madison is a tough nut to crack too. Rockford members were constantly attending funerals and weddings in that city due to the closeness of the families and even after Madison disbanded, Rockford members were still noted by the FBI as traveling there for gambling interests. Did Madison become an "open city" after 1973? Did Milwaukee move in? Did Rockford move in? Very difficult to say.

[B.]

Interesting, don't have anything else to say but: informative. Thank you.

Also, Cavita, if I said anything in the Saladino post that you disagree with, you won't offend me by disagreeing, if you think I'm wrong I'd welcome your criticism. I enjoy discussing it and its never personal, only a search for truth.

Salut.

No problem here on my part, just trying to solve the riddles. I am continually frustrated with vague and redacted FBI reports and the fact this and Madison are smaller less researched families. The burden is on is as researchers. It's doubly frustrating for me as I'm left trying to find proof for things I was told and observed. Madison is a tough nut to crack too. Rockford members were constantly attending funerals and weddings in that city due to the closeness of the families and even after Madison disbanded, Rockford members were still noted by the FBI as traveling there for gambling interests. Did Madison become an "open city" after 1973? Did Milwaukee move in? Did Rockford move in? Very difficult to say.

I suspect Chicago.

Maniaci said between 1965-1968 Chicago prevented Balistrieri from taking power over Madison. If there wasn't much criminal activity there, I can see why Madison doesn't show up in research on the Chicago family (that I know of), which focuses mostly on their criminal operations, though I suspect it's possible most of Madison formally "belonged" to Chicago post-1973 given Caputo and Aiello's Chicago ties.

[Wiseguy]

Let me get my thoughts together and I'll start it.

In 2014 Rick and I wrote an article where we try to explain the formation of NY 1860-1920. We wrote it backed up everything with sources so it could pass The Wiseguy Scrutiny Test by others who may have doubted our findings. Ten years ago if I read an article with Masseria being arrested with 5 Italian names I would include them as early Genovese members. Today my conclusion would be they might have been amico nos but unless confirmed by an informant then its lost to history. That's what I mean when I say you encourage people to make stronger evidence-based cases.

You know how you've sort of narrowed your research over time to focus on the early years, like the Mid-1800's to 1930? Well I'm on the other end, focusing on 2000 to the Present. As such, you usually won't see me get deeply involved in discussions about the very early years. Unlike with present day, there's just often too much we don't know with that time period, in my opinion. As a result, I don't feel like I've researched things enough about those years to take a hard stance. But the alternative theory is an interesting one.

Since you asked, and I'm not taking a stance one way or the other, here are some things that came to mind when I read it:

First, to establish the Gambinos as being the earliest family in New York (and not the Genovese as the conventional thinking has been) you have to find a clear line of succession. It was hard to see a clear connection between Gaetano Russo and later leaders. It's also hard to find any links between Nicola Taranto and Ignazio Lupo other than they were both Palermantani. But I get that the alternative theory is based on the region/kinship model.

Second, the "House of Lupo" letter and circumstantial conversations between Lupo, Morello, etc. results in inconclusive evidence, in my opinion.

Basically, the alternative theory of the Gambinos being the oldest family ultimately comes down to 1) Lupo succeeding Taranto, and 2) Lupo being separate from Morello. And even if Lupo was separate from Morello, it doesn't matter if clear link of succession with Taranto can't be established. If it can't be established, the Gambino family would either 1) originate from the late 1890's as well (if Lupo separate from Morello) or 2) originate from 1910 (if Morello and Lupo were together and with the D'Aquila breakoff).

Rockford is going to be the same argument taking place in a different city.

In the Family Secrets trial the FBI named Frank Saladino as the Boss of Rockford who died in 2005. Did Calabrese specifically state that? Nothing has come out since then so we don't really know. If asked if it exists currently, my opinion would fall on the WG/Pogo side until info comes out otherwise.

Cavita's from there, he'd be the one to ask and I think he's even doubtful about Saladino holding an actual title.

I wonder if Frank Trent Saladino is of any relation. He's an entrepreneur who dabbled in acting in the 80's (Geno in Sleepaway Camp). I met this guy years ago. And I just seen now he's related to the late great John Saxon.

The Family Secrets case also identified Saladino (one guy, by the way - not "they") as an associate of the Outfit's 26th Street crew. It's already been explained ad nauseum why a guy can be identified as a member, captain, or boss of a family that doesn't exist anymore. Plenty of examples have already been given. I mean, for God's sake, you won't see Rockford on any FBI list of families since the late 1980's.

If someone's automatic assumption is that this means there must be a family there, especially with a family like Rockford, it's because they want a family to be there. PatrickGold wants a family to be there. Just like he and a few others want families to still exist in Cleveland, Kansas City, Los Angeles, etc. They'll deny "caring one way or the other" until they're dying breath but it's obvious they do. It's the worst case of dumbf@ck-itis.

-Second: I don't know where you are getting multi million dollar operation from. They never even got close to a million dollars over a several year period. These guys were strictly small time even by typical small potatoes standards.

He was hoping people wouldn't actually click on the link.

So what do we have so far as families now being argued to still be around despite what the feds say or indictments show?

1. Buffalo
2. Cleveland
3. Kansas City
4. Los Angeles
5. Rockford

Who's next?