Cleveland Crime Family

[givememysocks]

That is a common practice. We have seen the Feds refer to a family that they have long considered extinct whenever they indict a remnant. It has happened with Cleveland, Scranton, Buffalo, KC, Rockford and Rochester.


Pogo

Rockford is far from extinct.

Common man

[Wiseguy]

Maybe we need to start another thread comparing/contrasting the similarities/differences between The Mafia/La Cosa Nostra and other criminal organizations. Where they are alike and where they are different. The Mafia is a criminal organization but is not just a criminal organization, it is a subculture, it has lineage, it has history. Anybody right now could start up a criminal organization and give ourselves a Mafia chain of command, other groups have like the Black Mafia Family had a Boss and Underboss in their ranks. They were gone after a generation while the mafia has been in this country for 170 years with the same structure and modus operandi. Maybe, just maybe there's a little more to it than mere criminality for the sake of being criminals.

Are you both interested in such a new thread? We'll (continue to) leave our egos at the door and debate the facts and cite everything with sources if possible (honestly, if either of you made a claim about so and so or this or that, I would not think you were lying. I trust you both to be honest and hopefully likewise). I enjoy the back and forth. Your holding the lion makes helps me refine, think out and make better arguments (which is why we were kinda disappointed when neither of you had any challenges to what we published in 2014. We wrote that and sourced it like we were training for a debate with the likes of you. And it lead to a stronger, fact driven, carefully sourced piece of work. We wrote it 6 years ago and its so far withstood the test of time. If you want to help me I'd implore you to find flaws in the article.)

I can have disagreed with you both but I consider you trustworthy and genuine and hopefully you feel the same for me and B. We're all students striving for a deeper understanding and debates aside, the respect is always there. Salut.

Such a thread sounds interesting. What challenges in 2014 are you referring to?

Yeah they are quietly lurking in the shadows and under the radar. Thankfully you are here to tell us all about them.


Pogo

They are not lurking anywhere. They are out in the open. Your limited knowledge of most of the cities that you write about has shown numerous times that you are wrong that these criminal organizations are dead. Your even going as far now to say that there are cases where the Feds indict remnants of family and still call it a family in the indictment but they are really defunct. So that deflects the evidence that you always ask for and are given. Just confused on your thinking. Your all about fbi indictments but now they don’t matter?

Lol! So now Rockford is still plugging along, huh? I'm becoming more convinced you're just trolling. You don't believe any of this bullshit you keep pushing.

[NothingNew44]

I’m calling it, the next claim will be Birmingham is alive and well. This guy is relentless.

[Patrickgold]

When was Rockford ever dead?? They were indicted in the family secret trial and all those guys are out of prison. So when did they become extinct. Before that indictment when was there last one? 70s and 80’s. Sorry, I won’t take the word of some internet dorks like wiseguy and Pogo who can’t even give examples of them being defunct. Just that there is no indictments. Hate to break the news for you but Rockford has hardly ever been indicted in its almost 100 year history. I’m sure you were saying they were defunct before the 2006 indictment. I’ll listen to some real experts if they say they are defunct but not to these dorks. Verified members are still alive and them and their families own a lot in and around Rockford

[Patrickgold]

I’m calling it, the next claim will be Birmingham is alive and well. This guy is relentless.

Never even knew there was a family in Birmingham. Ask confederate. That’s where is from

[motorfab]

I’m calling it, the next claim will be Birmingham is alive and well. This guy is relentless.

Never even knew there was a family in Birmingham. Ask confederate. That’s where is from

Bill Bonanno mentions it in one of his books

[Angelo Santino]

Such a thread sounds interesting. What challenges in 2014 are you referring to?

Let me get my thoughts together and I'll start it.

In 2014 Rick and I wrote an article where we try to explain the formation of NY 1860-1920. We wrote it backed up everything with sources so it could pass The Wiseguy Scrutiny Test by others who may have doubted our findings. Ten years ago if I read an article with Masseria being arrested with 5 Italian names I would include them as early Genovese members. Today my conclusion would be they might have been amico nos but unless confirmed by an informant then its lost to history. That's what I mean when I say you encourage people to make stronger evidence-based cases.

[Angelo Santino]

Rockford is going to be the same argument taking place in a different city.

In the Family Secrets trial the FBI named Frank Saladino as the Boss of Rockford who died in 2005. Did Calabrese specifically state that? Nothing has come out since then so we don't really know. If asked if it exists currently, my opinion would fall on the WG/Pogo side until info comes out otherwise.

Cavita's from there, he'd be the one to ask and I think he's even doubtful about Saladino holding an actual title.

I wonder if Frank Trent Saladino is of any relation. He's an entrepreneur who dabbled in acting in the 80's (Geno in Sleepaway Camp). I met this guy years ago. And I just seen now he's related to the late great John Saxon.

[cavita]

Rockford is going to be the same argument taking place in a different city.

In the Family Secrets trial the FBI named Frank Saladino as the Boss of Rockford who died in 2005. Did Calabrese specifically state that? Nothing has come out since then so we don't really know. If asked if it exists currently, my opinion would fall on the WG/Pogo side until info comes out otherwise.

Cavita's from there, he'd be the one to ask and I think he's even doubtful about Saladino holding an actual title.

I wonder if Frank Trent Saladino is of any relation. I met this guy years ago. And I just seen now he's related to the late great John Saxon.

This Frank Trent Saladino is no relation first off. Second, I know the FBI, based on what Nick Calabrese probably told them, was that Saladino was the boss of Rockford in 2001. I can plainly state this is not true from my personal knowledge of Frank. Indications are at best he was a capo directing associates. In typical Rockford capo fashion which was the norm for years, he made gambling and street tax collections. From the 80s up through the late 90s I NEVER heard Frank referred to as boss of anything. I hold firm that Nick Calabrese was led to believe or just personally believed himself that Frank was the boss
Frank had a lot of swagger, was loud and over the top. He was always out and about and never kept his head down or was low key like a boss should be. Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm still busy trying to find more info through FBI files and i think the FBI is still not releasing his files but I should probably try again and see.

[Patrickgold]

Rockford is going to be the same argument taking place in a different city.

In the Family Secrets trial the FBI named Frank Saladino as the Boss of Rockford who died in 2005. Did Calabrese specifically state that? Nothing has come out since then so we don't really know. If asked if it exists currently, my opinion would fall on the WG/Pogo side until info comes out otherwise.

Cavita's from there, he'd be the one to ask and I think he's even doubtful about Saladino holding an actual title.

I wonder if Frank Trent Saladino is of any relation. I met this guy years ago. And I just seen now he's related to the late great John Saxon.

This Frank Trent Saladino is no relation first off. Second, I know the FBI, based on what Nick Calabrese probably told them, was that Saladino was the boss of Rockford in 2001. I can plainly state this is not true from my personal knowledge of Frank. Indications are at best he was a capo directing associates. In typical Rockford capo fashion which was the norm for years, he made gambling and street tax collections. From the 80s up through the late 90s I NEVER heard Frank referred to as boss of anything. I hold firm that Nick Calabrese was led to believe or just personally believed himself that Frank was the boss
Frank had a lot of swagger, was loud and over the top. He was always out and about and never kept his head down or was low key like a boss should be. Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm still busy trying to find more info through FBI files and i think the FBI is still not releasing his files but I should probably try again and see.

Cavita, I don’t really want to drag you into this but you are the real expert on Rockford. As far as I know, the fbi never said the organization was non existent. In fact, the FBI has barely acknowledged the organization has existed or if it was part of the Outfit. I personally think they don’t even know. Can you tell us if the criminal organization in Rockford is still around or if it is completely defunct? I will take your word on this over people that have no inside knowledge and only know what they can google.

[Angelo Santino]

Fank Trent Saladino is no relation first off. Second, I know the FBI, based on what Nick Calabrese probably told them, was that Saladino was the boss of Rockford in 2001. I can plainly state this is not true from my personal knowledge of Frank. Indications are at best he was a capo directing associates. In typical Rockford capo fashion which was the norm for years, he made gambling and street tax collections. From the 80s up through the late 90s I NEVER heard Frank referred to as boss of anything. I hold firm that Nick Calabrese was led to believe or just personally believed himself that Frank was the boss
Frank had a lot of swagger, was loud and over the top. He was always out and about and never kept his head down or was low key like a boss should be. Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm still busy trying to find more info through FBI files and i think the FBI is still not releasing his files but I should probably try again and see.

OK, just wondered. I met him years ago at a convention, shook hands that was about it.

Thank you for explaining the layout of things in Rockford. I feel you've laid things out the way they are.

However, I'd like to make the same argument that if Saladino was recognized by Chicago (and other places) as the boss and not a Chicago Family member then its possible he was official boss. You indicate that he was "like a capo directing associates," that would be the same scenario in Cleveland due to absence of a structure/membership. As for his conduct, there's no rule saying he can't act like that, and other cities wouldn't care, they'd regard him as a point of contact there and recognize him. This doesn't change the fact that in 2005 there was literally nothing there, no one is going to scrape under Rockford (or any other few-membered families) and discover a fully formed Family the feds weren't aware of (except in the single case of Buffalo). If that is the bar we're going by then there is no Family. But If Chicago and other groups recognize one member Saladino as Rockford's boss then they were technically still a Family within the eyes of the Mafia.

I'm not saying this is the case and I hope it doesn't come across like I'm telling you your own city. Just something to consider, it won't change the fact that Rockford is done and likely has been for some time. If DiFronzo was an informant and we ever get to read what he provided, he may even touch upon it. Would there be a way we could contact the Calabreses and ask them to expand on this?

[Pogo The Clown]

I’m calling it, the next claim will be Birmingham is alive and well. This guy is relentless.

That wouldn't really be a surprise considering that back on the old forum he claimed that Dallas and Madison still had families.


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

I’m calling it, the next claim will be Birmingham is alive and well. This guy is relentless.

That wouldn't really be a surprise considering that back on the old forum he claimed that Dallas and Madison still had families.


Pogo

Actually with Birmingham, according to the mafia's own members and Joe N. Gallo's origins it is possi-..., lol. J/k.

[Patrickgold]

Fank Trent Saladino is no relation first off. Second, I know the FBI, based on what Nick Calabrese probably told them, was that Saladino was the boss of Rockford in 2001. I can plainly state this is not true from my personal knowledge of Frank. Indications are at best he was a capo directing associates. In typical Rockford capo fashion which was the norm for years, he made gambling and street tax collections. From the 80s up through the late 90s I NEVER heard Frank referred to as boss of anything. I hold firm that Nick Calabrese was led to believe or just personally believed himself that Frank was the boss
Frank had a lot of swagger, was loud and over the top. He was always out and about and never kept his head down or was low key like a boss should be. Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm still busy trying to find more info through FBI files and i think the FBI is still not releasing his files but I should probably try again and see.

OK, just wondered. I met him years ago at a convention, shook hands that was about it.

Thank you for explaining the layout of things in Rockford. I feel you've laid things out the way they are.

However, I'd like to make the same argument that if Saladino was recognized by Chicago (and other places) as the boss and not a Chicago Family member then its possible he was official boss. You indicate that he was "like a capo directing associates," that would be the same scenario in Cleveland due to absence of a structure/membership. As for his conduct, there's no rule saying he can't act like that, and other cities wouldn't care, they'd regard him as a point of contact there and recognize him. This doesn't change the fact that in 2005 there was literally nothing there, no one is going to scrape under Rockford (or any other few-membered families) and discover a fully formed Family the feds weren't aware of (except in the single case of Buffalo). If that is the bar we're going by then there is no Family. But If Chicago and other groups recognize one member Saladino as Rockford's boss then they were technically still a Family within the eyes of the Mafia.

I'm not saying this is the case and I hope it doesn't come across like I'm telling you your own city. Just something to consider, it won't change the fact that Rockford is done and likely has been for some time. If DiFronzo was an informant and we ever get to read what he provided, he may even touch upon it. Would there be a way we could contact the Calabreses and ask them to expand on this?

I think your forgetting that 9 members and associates were indicted around the same time of the family secrets trial for running a multi million dollar bookmaking operation that had been in operation since the early 80’s. So to say there was literally nothing there is not really accurate. Rockford has always been under the radar and tight knit. See article links. All the guys that were arrested are out of jail. They all did minimal time. Joe Saldino is considered by most as the current boss. I don’t know if that is true or not.

https://www.rrstar.com/article/20071019/NEWS/310199857

https://history.rockfordpubliclibrary.o ... y/?p=51867

[Patrickgold]

I’m calling it, the next claim will be Birmingham is alive and well. This guy is relentless.

That wouldn't really be a surprise considering that back on the old forum he claimed that Dallas and Madison still had families.


Pogo

There goes you virtual ptsd again. Claiming that you “fought” with me at another forum. Anyway, for you to even compare Madison and Dallas to Rockford shows how limited your knowledge is. Rockford had/has way more LCN activity then those cities. In fact, Rockford has outlasted other cities like St. Louis and Milwaukee that had a bigger presence previously