Cleveland Crime Family

[Pogo The Clown]

Yep no question. They are lurking in the shadows with Cleveland, KC and LA.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

thank you. Well, that article probably came out before they had the alleged underboss talking about Todaro and the commission. The FBI obviously took the pressure off and they re-emerged. Also, hasn’t Ron Fino been saying for years that they are still around? He’s definitely an “organized crime expert” on Buffalo if there is one

And yet the FBI hasn't changed its stance on the state of the Buffalo LCN. Go figure.

It's been covered about a billion times why Violi being made underboss doesn't necessarily mean diddly squat. You're just johnny-come-lately to the whole thing.

In 2006, federal investigators said that while “small numbers of loosely associated individuals got together to commit Mafia style crimes, rumors that what was once the Magaddino family still operating there just weren't true.”

That basically sums up Buffalo in a sentence, both before and after the Violi drug bust.

As for Los Angeles, you won't see it on any official list of remaining families in nearly 30 years. The annual California organized crime report stopped even mentioning the LCN after 2005. Neither is an oversight. There are 7 members left and 3 of them don't even live in California anymore.

"The federal government's hit list for the Mafia once included nearly 20 cities, but officials say they are close to crossing off Cleveland; Denver; Los Angeles; New Orleans; Pittston, Pa.; Rochester, N.Y.; San Francisco; San Jose; St. Louis and Tampa. 'We still have powerful La Cosa Nostra families in New York City, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Chicago, Boston and south Florida," said Paul Coffey, who heads the Justice Department's organized crime division. He added that no major Mafia family 'has been completely eradicated.'" (Washington Post, 1992)

I’ll take the alleged underbosses’ word over a pencil pusher who has probably not worked on the streets for 20 years. Also, the article from 2006 is very general. Federal investigators. Which federal investigators. In 2006 a hell of a lot more Members were alive including Todaro Sr so not sure what they are talking about. That guy was definitely the recognized head of Buffalo

There were 23 members left in 2006. And half of those have died since then.

Yep no question. They are lurking in the shadows with Cleveland, KC and LA.


Pogo

Isn't it amazing how quickly these families get resurrected on these forums? Let it never be asked again why we are broken records regarding this.

[stubbs]

One thing that would make sense is if the Gambinos (or LA family) have a member or two in LA to act as drug brokers with the cartels. LA is a hugely important city for the Sinaloan cartel.

Of course, this is pure speculation. But given the history of the zips and their drug networks, this would make more sense than assuming they’re doing much else.

[PolackTony]

Seems like the most current message from the FBI to the public on the overall state of LCN is on the FBI.gov site under the heading "Transnational Organized Crime" (not sure the exact publication date but from the content it can be inferred that it was sometime after 2015). The section of interest here states:

The LCN is most active in the New York metropolitan area, parts of New Jersey, Philadelphia, Detroit, Chicago, and New England. The major LCN families include the five New York-based families—Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese, and Luchese; the Newark-based DeCavalcante family; the New England LCN; the Philadelphia LCN; and the Chicago Outfit. They have members in other major cities and are involved in international crimes.

[Stroccos]

Rus Paps brother Fred worked for Frank Russo who was county auditor and owned Carriage Hills(Hill, hillside something like that) a real estate company that employed Rus Pap who was a licensed real estate agent, allegedly and all neighbors with Jimmy Dimora-the politican in cuyhoga county who got 20 something yrs for RICO predicates... I believe russ and fred were unindicted co conspirators, but dont quote me on that. I just remembered this bc i seen an article on jimmy dimora getting covid in prison a month ago. This was all back about maybe 2010s, maybe 2015
Im not saying this is reflective of a viable mob family, what i am saying is a made guy and his brother had their hooks in county politicans and werent pinched for it. Can they have been doing other stuff on the side? Possibly. But it could of also just been a neighborhood thing bc they all lived in the same sub division, mostly neighbors

not to mention did you know frank russos son worked for the same company as papalrdo , nothing to see here folks it was all dimoria and russo

[B.]

Those Longos are connected to the Buffalo family actually and are from Hamilton. Stefano Magaddino was recorded discussing them on his office tapes. We talked about them on here a couple years ago here:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3340&p=71636

Some of the details still need to be sorted out, but it appears Dominick Longo was associated with John Papalia in Ontario.

I had no idea Fratianno talked about Dominick Longo. He said he was made into the LA family? A couple people in that old thread even said he was an LA member.

Frattiano says in the book that Brooklier asked him to go with Longo to introduce him to all the 'family guys' in Montreal. Frattiano hadn't met Longo yet so he asked if he was active with the family and Pete Milano said that he's a 'solid guy' and that he did a piece of work with Peanuts Tropolone (who is originally from Buffalo). He specifically mentions that 'they' didn't make him in Montreal but that 'we' did while Jimmy was away. He also says that he isn't very active because he's very busy with his car dealership but that he's rich and good for a touch every now and then.

Thanks for sharing. I don't remember it from the book. I wonder if Fratianno was confusing Montreal and Hamilton/Ontario or if Longo was also connected to Montreal. We know the Bonannos had a presence in Ontario as early as the 1960s, though we don't know of Buffalo members in Montreal aside from a vague reference by Magaddino to having a presence there.

So there is definitely precedent for a Buffalo figure with Ontario ties getting made in Los Angeles. Seems unlikely it would connect to the alleged Iavarone connection, but precedent can be relevant to the mafia.

Side note, but I wonder if Fratianno actually knew members in Canada and could make a direct introduction or if he would have had to find someone else to introduce him to the Canadian members first before introducing Longo to them.

[johnny_scootch]

Thanks for sharing. I don't remember it from the book. I wonder if Fratianno was confusing Montreal and Hamilton/Ontario or if Longo was also connected to Montreal. We know the Bonannos had a presence in Ontario as early as the 1960s, though we don't know of Buffalo members in Montreal aside from a vague reference by Magaddino to having a presence there.

So there is definitely precedent for a Buffalo figure with Ontario ties getting made in Los Angeles. Seems unlikely it would connect to the alleged Iavarone connection, but precedent can be relevant to the mafia.

Side note, but I wonder if Fratianno actually knew members in Canada and could make a direct introduction or if he would have had to find someone else to introduce him to the Canadian members first before introducing Longo to them.

I think there is a real possibility Frattiano misremembered and they ended up saying Montreal when they meant Hamilton/Buffalo, the book is filled with little errors like that. Its even possible the author did it on purpose because honestly who the fuck ever heard of Hamilton.

I also misremembered part of it and Brooklier didn't ask Jimmy himself to go to Canada but rather he wanted Jimmy to introduce Longo to a Tony Randazzo and it was this Randazzo who would relay the message to 'Montreal'. Here's the passage;

Brooklier says '.....well I'll let Pete explain it." Milano smiled, pleased to be included in the conversation. "Theres a friend of ours here, somebody we made while you were gone. Dominic Longo, and he wants to be introduced as a made guy to Tony Randazzo."

"Who's Dominic Longo?"

"Jimmy, this guys got a Toyota dealership in EL Monte that's the biggest in the country. He's originally from Montreal and Tony knows a lot of made guys up there. Dominic wants the family guys in Montreal to know he's made.

"Whats this Longo like?" Jimmy asked. "Has he done and fucking work?"

"He's solid," Brooklier said. "He did a piece of work with Peanuts Tronolone. They choked a guy, but they never made him in Montreal."
"Is he active with the family here?"

"Well this Toyota dealership keeps him pretty busy. But he's useful in other ways."

Milano laughed. "Yeah, Jimmy, he's rich, good for a little touch every now and then."

"Sounds great," Jimmy said. "Will do, no problem."

Anyone know who this Tony Randazzo is?

[Angelo Santino]

Brooklier says '.....well I'll let Pete explain it." Milano smiled, pleased to be included in the conversation. "Theres a friend of ours here, somebody we made while you were gone. Dominic Longo, and he wants to be introduced as a made guy to Tony Randazzo."

"Who's Dominic Longo?"

"Jimmy, this guys got a Toyota dealership in EL Monte that's the biggest in the country. He's originally from Montreal and Tony knows a lot of made guys up there. Dominic wants the family guys in Montreal to know he's made.

"Whats this Longo like?" Jimmy asked. "Has he done and fucking work?"

"He's solid," Brooklier said. "He did a piece of work with Peanuts Tronolone. They choked a guy, but they never made him in Montreal."
"Is he active with the family here?"

"Well this Toyota dealership keeps him pretty busy. But he's useful in other ways."

Milano laughed. "Yeah, Jimmy, he's rich, good for a little touch every now and then."

"Sounds great," Jimmy said. "Will do, no problem."

Anyone know who this Tony Randazzo is?

Member, Detroit.

I spit my coffee out at that little Milano quip. He did it a few times, I recall him resisting the urge to laugh when he was told Pete Milano became a captain, he also describes Milano arriving to a meeting all wide eyed and nervous thinking he was followed by a cop.

Fratianno hated alot of people and this book served as a conduit to dish out a few fuck youse, I wonder how accurate his retelling is, if he really went around talking to other members and bosses like he was bulletproof. And it still makes no sense to me, why Fratianno? Why did Brooklier suggest him of all people? He wasn't trusted, he wasn't even liked by LA by that point. It makes me wonder if Brooklier made him Acting Under knowing Fratianno would bury himself which he definitely did.

I am cautious about the west coast because the only real source we have is Fratianno and his opinions influenced Craig Fiato and Kenji Gallo who continued the narrative. All of them paint Milano as the real docile don. If Tommy Gambino was under since at least 2001, that jives with the time Milano lost the sit to DiLeonardo and that may have been his response to that. Having Gambino would have likely strengthened the relationship and Milano's ability to get better deals with NY. From a functional perspective, an underboss wasn't necessary so it had to have served some political purpose.

[TommyGambino]

One thing that would make sense is if the Gambinos (or LA family) have a member or two in LA to act as drug brokers with the cartels. LA is a hugely important city for the Sinaloan cartel.

Of course, this is pure speculation. But given the history of the zips and their drug networks, this would make more sense than assuming they’re doing much else.

Rosario Gambinos kid Tommy is made in the LA family but if I remember right tgat now they are finished felice said he reported to the Gambinos in NY, I bet he was the whole time. He has successful businesses though so I doubt he's into drugs

[scagghiuni]

Yep no question. They are lurking in the shadows with Cleveland, KC and LA.


Pogo

for buffalo there are violi wiretaps, several organized-crime murders in hamilton/toronto, there is much more than you have in kc or cleveland; if it is true that todaro is boss, violi underboos, natale luppino captain there is a structure and it should be considered a viable crime family... if fbi considered new orleans viable with 5 members in the '60 i don't see why not buffalo with even more members

[Angelo Santino]

Yep no question. They are lurking in the shadows with Cleveland, KC and LA.


Pogo

for buffalo there are violi wiretaps, several organized-crime murders in hamilton/toronto, there is much more than you have in kc or cleveland; if it is true that todaro is boss, violi underboos, natale luppino captain there is a structure and it should be considered a viable crime family... if fbi considered new orleans viable with 5 members in the '60 i don't see why not buffalo with even more members

The Buffalo argument is going to keep getting moved. We need a boss, hierarchy and structure, Buffalo has that, bah it's surely hype. It's the RCMP that reported it, well they're not the FBI. Violi says he's underboss, meh he's just shining people on. Bonannos coming to meet, hey Canadian trout fishing is good that time of year. Only one case came out in 20 years, fuck I forgot about the 3 case minimum rule. I don't know where to go further with this. The Buffalo thread was 300+ of guys making the same points every 20 pages. I'm getting tired of saying "it's their organization" and I'm sure others are too.

As long as we continue to disagree on what these groups actually are and how they function in proximity with each other we're going to keep having the same debate. If we're going to view the mafia through the prism as solely a criminal gang complete with a structure with busy worker bee soldiers earnin and churnin for their bosses through book, robbery, murders, loansharking then it becomes very black and white. This theory disqualifies everything outside of NY, Phila., NE, Chicago and half of the families in Sicily wouldn't be considered viable either. It's never come out that one boss ever told another he's not viable. We need to understand that this is an outsider characterization that the members themselves subscribe no value to or belief in.

[Pogo The Clown]

If Tommy Gambino was under since at least 2001, that jives with the time Milano lost the sit to DiLeonardo and that may have been his response to that. Having Gambino would have likely strengthened the relationship and Milano's ability to get better deals with NY. From a functional perspective, an underboss wasn't necessary so it had to have served some political purpose.

The time line would be a bit off. DiLeonardo said Joe Isgro wasn't made at the time he met Milano (Isgro was made in 1996). So the meeting would have to be during the early/mid 90s.


Pogo

[B.]

I think there is a real possibility Frattiano misremembered and they ended up saying Montreal when they meant Hamilton/Buffalo, the book is filled with little errors like that. Its even possible the author did it on purpose because honestly who the fuck ever heard of Hamilton.

I also misremembered part of it and Brooklier didn't ask Jimmy himself to go to Canada but rather he wanted Jimmy to introduce Longo to a Tony Randazzo and it was this Randazzo who would relay the message to 'Montreal'. Here's the passage;

Who the fuck has heard of Hamilton? You mean where Salvatore Maranzano kept a residence before becoming boss of bosses? Where the Buffalo, Bonanno, and Los Angeles families are planting flags, where mafia murders still happen regularly, and the ghost of Stefano Magaddino still haunts? I mostly kid, but seriously, I wouldn't have heard of Hamilton if it weren't for this stuff. Just another unlikely twist in the mafia's long, strange history.

Thanks for adding more, man. I need to re-read the Last Mafioso. Some of those books I read so many years ago that there might be other weird little tidbits that would mean something different to us now.

If Randazzo is a Detroit member, interesting a Detroit member would be introducing an LA member to members in Canada (whether it be Hamilton or Montreal). Detroit is near Canada and had its own small Canadian group but we don't think of them having strong ties. LA boss Nick Licata told Frank Bompensiero when he lived in Detroit he used to run bootleg liquor from Canada into the US though I assume it was limited to Windsor->Detroit.

[Confederate]

Yep no question. They are lurking in the shadows with Cleveland, KC and LA.


Pogo

for buffalo there are violi wiretaps, several organized-crime murders in hamilton/toronto, there is much more than you have in kc or cleveland; if it is true that todaro is boss, violi underboos, natale luppino captain there is a structure and it should be considered a viable crime family... if fbi considered new orleans viable with 5 members in the '60 i don't see why not buffalo with even more members

The Buffalo argument is going to keep getting moved. We need a boss, hierarchy and structure, Buffalo has that, bah it's surely hype. It's the RCMP that reported it, well they're not the FBI. Violi says he's underboss, meh he's just shining people on. Bonannos coming to meet, hey Canadian trout fishing is good that time of year. Only one case came out in 20 years, fuck I forgot about the 3 case minimum rule. I don't know where to go further with this. The Buffalo thread was 300+ of guys making the same points every 20 pages. I'm getting tired of saying "it's their organization" and I'm sure others are too.

As long as we continue to disagree on what these groups actually are and how they function in proximity with each other we're going to keep having the same debate. If we're going to view the mafia through the prism as solely a criminal gang complete with a structure with busy worker bee soldiers earnin and churnin for their bosses through book, robbery, murders, loansharking then it becomes very black and white. This theory disqualifies everything outside of NY, Phila., NE, Chicago and half of the families in Sicily wouldn't be considered viable either. It's never come out that one boss ever told another he's not viable. We need to understand that this is an outsider characterization that the members themselves subscribe no value to or belief in.

We're not talking about Sicily. We're talking about the "American LCN" which is not the same LCN that it was 40 years ago before RICO, Demographic changes, Cultural changes, No retribution against informants, Increased drug addicts, Bosses becoming Informants, etc. Let half the board believe that if there is one remaining left over LCN member in a city, that means the family there still exists & is honored by old protocol much of which doesn't exist in the American LCN anymore in 2020 & let the other half of the board believe what the American F.B.I. has stated. Not everybody has to agree.

[Costigan]

I spit my coffee out at that little Milano quip. He did it a few times, I recall him resisting the urge to laugh when he was told Pete Milano became a captain, he also describes Milano arriving to a meeting all wide eyed and nervous thinking he was followed by a cop.

Fratianno hated alot of people and this book served as a conduit to dish out a few fuck youse, I wonder how accurate his retelling is, if he really went around talking to other members and bosses like he was bulletproof. And it still makes no sense to me, why Fratianno? Why did Brooklier suggest him of all people? He wasn't trusted, he wasn't even liked by LA by that point. It makes me wonder if Brooklier made him Acting Under knowing Fratianno would bury himself which he definitely did.

I am cautious about the west coast because the only real source we have is Fratianno and his opinions influenced Craig Fiato and Kenji Gallo who continued the narrative. All of them paint Milano as the real docile don. If Tommy Gambino was under since at least 2001, that jives with the time Milano lost the sit to DiLeonardo and that may have been his response to that. Having Gambino would have likely strengthened the relationship and Milano's ability to get better deals with NY. From a functional perspective, an underboss wasn't necessary so it had to have served some political purpose.

From Fratianno's book, I think Brooklier had Louis Tom Dragna in mind to run things while he did his stretch in the can. Louis Tom told Brooklier that he would do it only if he could bring Jimmy in to help out. At least that's what Jimmy said L.T. told him when they met. At that meeting they hadn't seen each other in years and even the Weasel was surprised at the offer. I think they were setting him up to be hit, knowing he would overstep.