Official boss of the same family more than once?

[B.]

Talking about Nick Delmore in the other thread got me thinking. Do we have any confirmed examples of someone who held the official boss position more than once?

Some things to consider:

- Reportedly a consigliere who stepped down was not allowed to hold the position ever again. Consigliere was the only other elected position in the family aside from the boss, so it makes me wonder if the same rule applied to boss. Joe Biondo had been the consigliere of the Gambino family only to be removed from the position, then later became underboss, so while consigliere may have been a "one time only" gig, former consiglieri could become underbosses.

- Pussy Russo was recorded in a discussion with other Genovese members saying Paul Ricca was still the Chicago boss "behind the scenes" and we know he and Accardo stepped up to guide the family post-Giancana, though it doesn't seem they held the position of official boss during this time as it was typically understood. "Behind the scenes" or not, it wasn't a secret that they were the most influential figures in Chicago, but my understanding is that neither of them held the position of official boss previously held by Giancana following Giancana's departure though they were the defacto senior leaders running the family. It's very close to being an example, as at least Accardo had previously held the position of official boss pre-Giancana but it's not exactly what this topic is about.

- As mentioned in the other thread, Pussy Russo was also recorded implying that Nick Delmore of the DeCavalcantes had a falling out of some kind, made up with the organization, and stated specifically that Delmore was "made boss again." A non-member informant made a similarly confusing claim about Delmore. I suspect this had more to do with confusing wording and was not a reference to two periods where Delmore served as official boss, though it should be included here as we don't know for sure what was meant and DeCavalcante boss history is an open question.

- Manfredi Mineo appears to have been boss of the pre-Profaci family, only to switch over and become boss of the former D'Aquila family. This is def a key part of this discussion though the rules might have been different when it comes to being boss of different families. Salvatore Maranzano was a boss in Sicily who became a boss in NYC. Vincenzo Troia was also a boss in Sicily and at least attempted to become Newark boss. Joe Bonanno attempted this in Tucson but was not recognized. There might be other examples of early US bosses moving to another city where they became bosses, though all of these examples are someone becoming boss of different families, like Mineo.

- We have examples of bosses stepping down and holding other ranks, as John Alioto of Milwaukee stepped down as boss and became a capodecina over the elderly members who didn't approve of Frank Balistrieri's leadership. Bompensiero reported that Joe Zerilli was planning to step down as boss of Detroit and become a "consigliere of power", though this doesn't appear to have ever happened it shows that it was possible. The ultimate example, Giuseppe Morello, had been boss of his own family as well as capo dei capi, then later became Joe Masseria's underboss.

--

Is there a glaring example I'm forgetting of an official boss holding the position more than once in the same family?

This thread shouldn't include acting bosses, defacto bosses, or ruling panel members, and it's not a discussion of who is "most powerful". Looking only for examples of individuals who held the rank of official boss within the same family more than one time. Beyond that, feel free to chime in with anything you think is relevant or interesting to the topic.

[Frank]

I really cant think of anyone who was official boss of a family more than once except possibly Delmore

[B.]

Yeah, I'm hoping Pogo or Antiliar might have something that comes to mind. I feel like there is some situation I'm forgetting here.

[Frank]

If Delmore was, could that mean Amari was also. Was Bonanno taken down reinstated then retired, stepped down?? Im not saying Bonanno for sure, it is just a mess to follow that time period.

[B.]

If Delmore was, could that mean Amari was also. Was Bonanno taken down reinstated then retired, stepped down?? Im not saying Bonanno for sure, it is just a mess to follow that time period.

When Bonanno was deposed by the Commission he was never recognized again. He pushed for his brother-in-law to become boss and later tried to take the position back himself, but as far as the Commission was concerned he was never official boss of the "Bonannos" after 1964. He then tried to be recognized as boss of Tucson and reached out to Denver, California, and Buffalo but none of them would recognize him. He had people around him informing to the FBI on the west coast and they continued to receive reports that he was trying to stage a comeback pretty much until he was arrested and wrote his book. He and Carmine Galante were in contact up until Galante was killed, too.

I personally don't think Delmore was boss more than once, just hard to say much about that family pre-Amari. We can't even be sure when Amari first took over as boss.

[Frank]

I would say Accardo because of his term as boss till 57. Then starting in 1970 when Cerone went to prison, he headed a 3 man panel. I know you said no panels or acting boss appointments. But at first it might have been temporary. But Battaglia dies in prison. Ricca dies. Accardo says the new adminstration is himself Aiuppa and Alex.. That lasted till at least 1975. So even though it was a panel Accardo was the top dog and boss of the Outfit. My opinion is he could of structured it anyway he wanted, but chose to have a panel.

[PolackTony]

I would say Accardo because of his term as boss till 57. Then starting in 1970 when Cerone went to prison, he headed a 3 man panel. I know you said no panels or acting boss appointments. But at first it might have been temporary. But Battaglia dies in prison. Ricca dies. Accardo says the new adminstration is himself Aiuppa and Alex.. That lasted till at least 1975. So even though it was a panel Accardo was the top dog and boss of the Outfit. My opinion is he could of structured it anyway he wanted, but chose to have a panel.

I think Accardo has to count, or Chicago doesn't count for this question at all, as for most of its history post-Capone it was ruled by a panel system of top boss, boss (the number 1) and underboss (the number 2). In his book "Syndicate City" Alston Smith claims that the splitting of top level leadership functions began with Accardo's appointment in '57 (what Alston describes as Ricca retaining the top boss position and Accardo assuming the role of "enforcer"), though I think there's reason to assume that this system was instituted from Capone's incarceration onward, with Ricca retaining top boss status during first Nitto and then Campagna's tenure as the "number 1".

[Antiliar]

I agree with Frank. Accardo was the day-to-day boss from around 1947 to 1956, then in 1970 until he retired and Aiuppa was the number one. Ricca was the top boss until his death. We're going to have to dispense with official titles since Chicago didn't always play by the rules.

[PolackTony]

I would say Accardo because of his term as boss till 57. Then starting in 1970 when Cerone went to prison, he headed a 3 man panel. I know you said no panels or acting boss appointments. But at first it might have been temporary. But Battaglia dies in prison. Ricca dies. Accardo says the new adminstration is himself Aiuppa and Alex.. That lasted till at least 1975. So even though it was a panel Accardo was the top dog and boss of the Outfit. My opinion is he could of structured it anyway he wanted, but chose to have a panel.

I think Accardo has to count, or Chicago doesn't count for this question at all, as for most of its history post-Capone it was ruled by a panel system of top boss, boss (the number 1) and underboss (the number 2). In his book "Syndicate City" Alston Smith claims that the splitting of top level leadership functions began with Accardo's appointment in '57 (what Alston describes as Ricca retaining the top boss position and Accardo assuming the role of "enforcer"), though I think there's reason to assume that this system was instituted from Capone's incarceration onward, with Ricca retaining top boss status during first Nitto and then Campagna's tenure as the "number 1".

Typo in the above, meant Accardo until '57, not in '57 of course.

[B.]

Chicago doesn't apply then, as it's about anyone who was recognized as "rappresentante officiale" (or its equivalent) more than once in the same family. Mainly looking to figure out if the same "one term" rule for consigliere also applied to boss/rappresentante in mafia rules.

Should point out that Nicky Scarfo may have been attempting to reclaim his title as boss for most of his time in prison, though we found out the Lucchese family still considered him official boss as of the early 2010s so if he had succeeded he may not have truly been a second-term boss in his and Amuso's eyes. The whole scenario was ridiculous anyway and not too different from Bonanno's endless quest to become a boss again.

[B.]

We know positively that the appointed position of captain can be demoted and then promoted back to captain of the same crew or a new/different crew.

What about underboss? Trying to think of any multi-term underbosses. Would seem to be like captain given it's another appointed position.

[Angelo Santino]

Bosses, that's tough. San Francisco?

Underbosses more than once? Sonny Franzese, in the 60's and then in the 2000's (Incorrect, Retract). There's gotta be more.

I suspect there's alot of members who do not want the added responsibility. We always hear about how the best bosses are independently wealthy before gaining the position, I guess that is true when compared to a Natale or the Persicos who viewed their groups as an extension of themselves and a way to line their pockets. Junior Perisco became the boss that his younger self was fighting against.

[B.]

Bosses, that's tough. San Francisco?

Underbosses more than once? Sonny Franzese, in the 60's and then in the 2000's. There's gotta be more.

I suspect there's alot of members who do not want the added responsibility. We always hear about how the best bosses are independently wealthy before gaining the position, I guess that is true when compared to a Natale or the Persicos who viewed their groups as an extension of themselves and a way to line their pockets. Junior Perisco became the boss that his younger self was fighting against.

SF is a great point. The FBI thought Lanza stepped down in the early 1970s and that former boss Anthony Lima became boss again, but it later came out that Lanza was still the official boss. Lima was trying to become boss again, though, so he at least thought it was possible. It makes you wonder with a family like that... if a family is dwindling and there are few candidates, is someone going to say, "You can't be boss again"? If there was ever a rule about that, it seems like would have been ignored out of necessity as time went on though I still don't know of any concrete examples.

Was Franzese the underboss in the 1960s? I'd have to comb through the info, but I think it went Magliocco->Misuraca->Mineo. I can't remember who was there after Mineo and before Abbatemarco, if anyone.

[chin_gigante]

Mineo became underboss at the same time that Colombo became the boss in 1964. When the captains were asked to poll their crews they were asked what they thought of both Colombo as boss and Mineo as under. Mineo was also still underboss at the time that Colombo was shot but I'm not sure if he was still in the position from then until Abbatemarco got it or if the position was vacant. I don't know where the Franzese as underboss in the 60s thing comes from. Michael Franzese has said it I think but I don't know whether he was the original source for that. Either way, it looks like it was wrong and Mineo was the underboss for Colombo's entire reign. Strikes me as sort of like the same misinformation that would incorrectly identify Galante as Bonanno's underboss instead of Garofalo and Morales

[B.]

Great point, re: Galante. Honor Thy Father or one of those books claims Galante was the consigliere.

There is a mysterious FBI report that says Galante had been part of a "crew of capos" along with Joe Zicarelli and Frank LaBruzzo that ran the family while Joe Bonanno was boss, while John Morales represented Bonanno at meetings in his absence. That was true about Morales, though Zicarelli wasn't a captain at the same time as Galante and I'm not sure LaBruzzo was a captain yet either.

Galante may have held the "top captain" position that Lefty told Pistone was held by Napolitano and earlier FBI reports say was held by Nicky Marangello. That might explain why he was often confused as an admin member. Top/senior captain seems to have been a semi-official role in the Bonanno family that helped run the organization. I wonder too if the family's constant use of ruling panels from the 1970s-2000s, even when the boss was on the street, goes back further.