Cleveland Crime Family

[Frank]

Question... earlier I stated that two individuals were made in LA after Milano had passed. I can't locate that source. If no one knows what I'm talking about then perhaps I'm confused or mistaken? Thanks.

I'd also like to know who claimed that. Milano died in 2012 and I highly doubt anyone was getting made in LA by that point.

Yeah, I have to retract that.

There are two individuals according from two separate sources who are LA members but I'll let B. explain it, it's not my information and I already muddled it. Sorry for the confusion.

This could like how Angelo lonardo allegedly had his brother made in buffalo because the books where closed in Cleveland

It's possible.

DiLeonardo claims New York got around the membership ban in the 50's-70's by sending people to other cities to work, get made and transfer back to New York. We have evidence of Detroit and Cleveland doing this but NY was a new one to me. I never thought about it before but it makes sense, it's just nice to have someone in a position to confirm it.

Alphonse Persico is an example of being made in a non New York Family and transfer ing to the Colombos

[johnny_scootch]

Another factor in LA are the amount of its members who were more legitimate than not. This group had more than a few attorney members, I think Rosario DeSimone (Frank's father) was a doctor. Gallo once said of LA: "They dabble in crime, they're not gangsters." Individuals like Fratianno or Gallo could never understand it, to them a gangster is a criminal who goes out and steals, Gallo proudly boasted that he didn't work a job for 20 years but lived a playboy lifestyle. That is his measuring tool for what constitutes a true gangster. On his blog he constantly trashed Pete Milano, once even saying if he found out Milano had 10k on him he'd go up and steal it from him (echoing Gene Borrello in NY). Towards the end he changed his tune and commended Milano on dying free and relatively wealthy.

So this Iavarone with his business background and lack of a criminal record, is kinda reflective of the type of members that made up LA in the 20th century. Aside from a few colorful characters, It was mostly a family of sleepy housecats.

This situation reminds me of a guy that was from Montreal but moved out to LA where he owned a very successful car dealership and he was made by the LA family. If I remember correctly he was almost totally legitimate and after being made he was looking for someone to go back to Montreal with him and introduce him around to all the guys he knew out there as a made guy. This is all from The Last Mafioso, I can't seem to recall the name and I don't have access to the book because I'm not at home. So if this Canadian Iavarone was really made in LA he wouldn't be the first.

[B.]

This could like how Angelo lonardo allegedly had his brother made in buffalo because the books where closed in Cleveland

One of la Former members lives in Cleveland area russel massetta

You make a good point and recent discussions by Antimafia and others in the Canadian threads actually add to this.

Canadian coverage in recent years has given the impression that it's difficult to attain membership in Ontario:

- Domenico Violi waited many years to be made despite his pedigree, the status of his relatives, and his ongoing involvement in mafia activity.

- Pat Musitano was allegedly rejected for membership in Ontario (for a time, at least) and may have petitioned Montreal for support. Like Violi, Musitano had the pedigree and experience that should have made membership a given if indeed it's true that he struggled to gain membership.

We don't have definitive info on the details or how the politics have played out, but both Canadian LE investigations and journalists suggest that attaining membership in Ontario is not necessarily easy nor cut and dry.

- On the other hand, Cece Luppino reportedly received a casual offer of membership he turned down and his cousin Giuseppe Violi was given a choice between Buffalo or the Bonannos. So like anyone's membership, the "difficulty" of being made depends on the right time, right place, and who you are. It seems that as of the mid-2010s, being a Violi/Luppino was the right time/place to be made, though it hadn't been in the preceding years. This same opportunity might not have been available to those outside of the Violi/Luppino inner circle.

- Bonanno member informant Vincenzo Morena was made in Ontario with the direct support of Domenico Violi. While Morena was an outsider, it again suggests acceptance within the Luppino/Violi circle was a path to membership in the area regardless of group affiliation.

So how does that relate to Iavarone and Los Angeles?

- If there is substance to the claim that he was inducted in Los Angeles, it could connect to the difficulty some have faced attaining membership in Ontario. From Iavarone's perspective, it makes sense to try to gain membership elsewhere, though if the local Ontario powers don't approve of it, what is the value of gaining membership elsewhere if it's only going to create more issues in Ontario?

- If it's true that Todaro was bothered that nobody had informed him of Iavarone's membership status it makes sense, as Buffalo is the historic Cosa Nostra family in Ontario and he was inducting new members there, like Violi. Bosses are supposed to be informed when members visit and especially if they reside in their area, as evidenced by the Bonanno family inviting Domenico Violi to attend Vincenzo Morena's induction and serving as Morena's contact in the area.

- There is no way Iavarone took a vacation to Los Angeles, looked up local figures and said, "I'm having trouble getting made by Buffalo. Can you give me my button?" The mafia rarely if ever makes cold calls, so the question would be who Iavarone knew in California and how he knew them, but also why they would induct him in Los Angeles when he was established in Ontario. It makes sense if Iavarone was seeking membership that he might try to find it elsewhere, but how would that serve Los Angeles?

It sounds absurd, but let's look at modern Ontario. We know there is heavy mafia activity there and Ontario + Canada as a whole are like the 1920s US in terms of mafia murders in the past decade. Something serious is happening there and we don't know exactly how it works out politically.

- Joe Todaro inducted new members in Ontario, apparently for the first time in a while, and promoted one of them to underboss (the first Canadian underboss of a US family) and another to capodecina.

- The Bonanno family sent a group of members to Ontario to meet with Domenico Violi and inducted informant Vincenzo Morena, who would be a Bonanno member based in Ontario. The Bonanno family clearly followed protocol and received approval for one of their members to operate in Ontario, as evidenced by Violi's attendance at the induction and his ongoing association with Morena.

- We have this strange reference, possibly from the above Bonanno member informant, that the Los Angeles family inducted Iavarone, who returned to Ontario. Joe Todaro was said to be bothered by the violation in protocol, which is in contrast to the Bonannos' actions in Ontario.

- Iavarone is later killed. Did this relate purely to the ongoing bloodbath in Canada and the murky warfare there? Did it relate to the alleged violation of protocol mentioned in the article?

- Why are Buffalo, the Bonannos, and possibly even Los Angeles inducting members in Ontario during the same period? Why is Buffalo, the historic power in the region, promoting one of their new members to underboss and another to capodecina? Is there some kind of competition for resources in the area? Why is there so much mafia-connected violence there?Is it all a coincidence?

If Violi was lying on tape, Canadian LE is upholding those lies, and journalists are further perpetuating lies involving multiple crime families, two of them believed by outsiders to be "extinct", what purpose would it all serve? Who is selling a book here? Who is selling a TV show? It would be much more advantageous to frame Ontario as the "Seventh Family" at war with the "Sixth Family" in Montreal than it would be for this to be a conspiracy between mafia members, law enforcement, and journalists who just want to convince us that the Buffalo and Los Angeles families are still "viable".

[Angelo Santino]

Another factor in LA are the amount of its members who were more legitimate than not. This group had more than a few attorney members, I think Rosario DeSimone (Frank's father) was a doctor. Gallo once said of LA: "They dabble in crime, they're not gangsters." Individuals like Fratianno or Gallo could never understand it, to them a gangster is a criminal who goes out and steals, Gallo proudly boasted that he didn't work a job for 20 years but lived a playboy lifestyle. That is his measuring tool for what constitutes a true gangster. On his blog he constantly trashed Pete Milano, once even saying if he found out Milano had 10k on him he'd go up and steal it from him (echoing Gene Borrello in NY). Towards the end he changed his tune and commended Milano on dying free and relatively wealthy.

So this Iavarone with his business background and lack of a criminal record, is kinda reflective of the type of members that made up LA in the 20th century. Aside from a few colorful characters, It was mostly a family of sleepy housecats.

This situation reminds me of a guy that was from Montreal but moved out to LA where he owned a very successful car dealership and he was made by the LA family. If I remember correctly he was almost totally legitimate and after being made he was looking for someone to go back to Montreal with him and introduce him around to all the guys he knew out there as a made guy. This is all from The Last Mafioso, I can't seem to recall the name and I don't have access to the book because I'm not at home. So if this Canadian Iavarone was really made in LA he wouldn't be the first.

I don't know where to put this, but in the 1960's after Valachi and the Feds' hammer came down, all of sudden agents are following you, marking your every move, Ital ones coming up and trying to speak Italian to you. Not everyone adjusted to that in the same way. San Francisco, for instance, with a Siclian boss with bloodlines, turned fucking pale. The boss quit meeting with everyone and freaked the fuck out, and this was a Sicilian with family lineage. So for these guys with bloodlines, the aristocrats as I've coined them, weren't always the guys with the worst reputations. I'd argue many aren't gangsters in the traditional sense but racketeers who navigate their interest with the worst outcomes for their enemies being a last resort. But up front, they'd rather not carry that reputation around. Especially back in the day.

Good post, Salut!

[B.]

There is a mafia war going on in Ontario between the Buffalo, Bonanno, and Los Angeles crime families in 2020 while New Orleans watches on from the sidelines with their friends the Gambino family. Meat is back on the menu, boys!

War of the Godfathers... better late than never.

[Costigan]

This situation reminds me of a guy that was from Montreal but moved out to LA where he owned a very successful car dealership and he was made by the LA family. If I remember correctly he was almost totally legitimate and after being made he was looking for someone to go back to Montreal with him and introduce him around to all the guys he knew out there as a made guy. This is all from The Last Mafioso, I can't seem to recall the name and I don't have access to the book because I'm not at home. So if this Canadian Iavarone was really made in LA he wouldn't be the first.

Dominic Longo, who owned a Toyota dealership. I was in LA on business a few times in the 1990's & was surprised to see the logo "Longo Toyota" on cars even then.

[B.]

This situation reminds me of a guy that was from Montreal but moved out to LA where he owned a very successful car dealership and he was made by the LA family. If I remember correctly he was almost totally legitimate and after being made he was looking for someone to go back to Montreal with him and introduce him around to all the guys he knew out there as a made guy. This is all from The Last Mafioso, I can't seem to recall the name and I don't have access to the book because I'm not at home. So if this Canadian Iavarone was really made in LA he wouldn't be the first.

Dominic Longo, who owned a Toyota dealership. I was in LA on business a few times in the 1990's & was surprised to see the logo "Longo Toyota" on cars even then.

Those Longos are connected to the Buffalo family actually and are from Hamilton. Stefano Magaddino was recorded discussing them on his office tapes. We talked about them on here a couple years ago here:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3340&p=71636

Some of the details still need to be sorted out, but it appears Dominick Longo was associated with John Papalia in Ontario.

I had no idea Fratianno talked about Dominick Longo. He said he was made into the LA family? A couple people in that old thread even said he was an LA member.

[Patrickgold]

Oh course we should disregard it. It goes against everything you stand for. But we will all listen to all the articles you believe are credible. As long as you give the approval.

Not me. What law enforcement says. What organized crime experts say. What indictments show.

Anyone who has even a moderate understanding of the modern-day LCN should be able to immediately recognize a problem with anything saying there is an active LCN family making new members in LA today.

For those who wonder why some of us sound like broken records about certain topics, posters like you and some others here are precisely why. Left unchecked, your complete ignorance about the mob will quickly result in the horseshit piling high and deep on this forum.

Carmen Milano cooperated in 1998 and according to Kenji, Milano never replaced him. 2006 I believe is when we first heard about Tommy Gambino holding rank in LA. I didn't know that it came out officially, I thought it was an online rumor.

It was first reported in the Los Angeles Times (citing law enforcement sources) in 2001 and then cited by a Congressional Hearing in 2004.

Can you please post the the information where the FBI says Los Angeles and the Buffalo LCN are completely defunct. Also, is an alleged member of a mafia family that was tape recorded saying that the Buffalo family is still active count as an expert?

[NickleCity]

Oh course we should disregard it. It goes against everything you stand for. But we will all listen to all the articles you believe are credible. As long as you give the approval.

Not me. What law enforcement says. What organized crime experts say. What indictments show.

Anyone who has even a moderate understanding of the modern-day LCN should be able to immediately recognize a problem with anything saying there is an active LCN family making new members in LA today.

For those who wonder why some of us sound like broken records about certain topics, posters like you and some others here are precisely why. Left unchecked, your complete ignorance about the mob will quickly result in the horseshit piling high and deep on this forum.

Carmen Milano cooperated in 1998 and according to Kenji, Milano never replaced him. 2006 I believe is when we first heard about Tommy Gambino holding rank in LA. I didn't know that it came out officially, I thought it was an online rumor.

It was first reported in the Los Angeles Times (citing law enforcement sources) in 2001 and then cited by a Congressional Hearing in 2004.

Can you please post the the information where the FBI says Los Angeles and the Buffalo LCN are completely defunct. Also, is an alleged member of a mafia family that was tape recorded saying that the Buffalo family is still active count as an expert?

Former SAC Cohen in Buffalo said this to Dan Herbeck of the Buffalo news. Herbeck writes:

Now, the Mafia itself is all but dead in Western New York.

The local FBI once had a large squad of agents working full time on mob cases, but the agency no longer considers the Mafia a presence in this region, according to Adam S. Cohen, special agent in charge of the Buffalo FBI office.

“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around,” Cohen said. “But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses that we know of.”

Here is the link: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/the- ... 96091.html

[Patrickgold]

Oh course we should disregard it. It goes against everything you stand for. But we will all listen to all the articles you believe are credible. As long as you give the approval.

Not me. What law enforcement says. What organized crime experts say. What indictments show.

Anyone who has even a moderate understanding of the modern-day LCN should be able to immediately recognize a problem with anything saying there is an active LCN family making new members in LA today.

For those who wonder why some of us sound like broken records about certain topics, posters like you and some others here are precisely why. Left unchecked, your complete ignorance about the mob will quickly result in the horseshit piling high and deep on this forum.

Carmen Milano cooperated in 1998 and according to Kenji, Milano never replaced him. 2006 I believe is when we first heard about Tommy Gambino holding rank in LA. I didn't know that it came out officially, I thought it was an online rumor.

It was first reported in the Los Angeles Times (citing law enforcement sources) in 2001 and then cited by a Congressional Hearing in 2004.

Can you please post the the information where the FBI says Los Angeles and the Buffalo LCN are completely defunct. Also, is an alleged member of a mafia family that was tape recorded saying that the Buffalo family is still active count as an expert?

Former SAC Cohen in Buffalo said this to Dan Herbeck of the Buffalo news. Herbeck writes:

Now, the Mafia itself is all but dead in Western New York.

The local FBI once had a large squad of agents working full time on mob cases, but the agency no longer considers the Mafia a presence in this region, according to Adam S. Cohen, special agent in charge of the Buffalo FBI office.

“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around,” Cohen said. “But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses that we know of.”

Here is the link: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/the- ... 96091.html

Thank you. Well, that article probably came out before they had the alleged underboss talking about Todaro and the commission. The FBI obviously took the pressure off and they re-emerged. Also, hasn’t Ron Fino been saying for years that they are still around? He’s definitely an “organized crime expert” on Buffalo if there is one

[johnny_scootch]

Those Longos are connected to the Buffalo family actually and are from Hamilton. Stefano Magaddino was recorded discussing them on his office tapes. We talked about them on here a couple years ago here:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3340&p=71636

Some of the details still need to be sorted out, but it appears Dominick Longo was associated with John Papalia in Ontario.

I had no idea Fratianno talked about Dominick Longo. He said he was made into the LA family? A couple people in that old thread even said he was an LA member.

Frattiano says in the book that Brooklier asked him to go with Longo to introduce him to all the 'family guys' in Montreal. Frattiano hadn't met Longo yet so he asked if he was active with the family and Pete Milano said that he's a 'solid guy' and that he did a piece of work with Peanuts Tropolone (who is originally from Buffalo). He specifically mentions that 'they' didn't make him in Montreal but that 'we' did while Jimmy was away. He also says that he isn't very active because he's very busy with his car dealership but that he's rich and good for a touch every now and then.

[NickleCity]

^^^ Yes, Fino before and after this article has indicated Buffalo is still around. But in this article Herbeck quotes Fino as saying:

“There are a few remnants of the mob that still exist in Buffalo,” said Ronald Fino, a former union leader who helped the FBI investigate the local mob, “but it’s not the same.”

And yes this was written in March 2017 around 8 months before Otremens indicated the Todaro family was active in Canada. Here is the issue: One would think Canadian LE would have shared some of their intelligence with the FBI by this time. Gives credence as to why Wiseguy, Confederate and Pogo are so adamant Buffalo doesn’t really exist as a structured family. I would love to know why Cohen was unaware of these developments - if the family really does exist - which I believe it does.

[Pogo The Clown]

Some more revealing statements. On top of that Buffalo has not been listed as one of the remaining family for at least 14 years.


From 2006

Today, despite rumors that what was once the Magaddino family still operates here, federal organized crime investigators say those tales just aren’t true. They say small numbers of loosely associated individuals may still get together to commit what once were Mafia style crimes, but it’s not like the old days.

From 2017

no one leads what is left of the mob in this region, Cohen said.

Today, both Cohen and Coppola estimate that there are no more than a handful of surviving mob members in the area, with no viable organization to unite them, and no leader.

Several retired state and local law enforcement officials who specialized in Mafia investigations agreed.

the FBI’s contention that the Buffalo mob family no longer is active and no longer has a leader.

[Patrickgold]

Some more revealing statements. On top of that Buffalo has not been listed as one of the remaining family for at least 14 years.


From 2006

Today, despite rumors that what was once the Magaddino family still operates here, federal organized crime investigators say those tales just aren’t true. They say small numbers of loosely associated individuals may still get together to commit what once were Mafia style crimes, but it’s not like the old days.

From 2017

no one leads what is left of the mob in this region, Cohen said.

Today, both Cohen and Coppola estimate that there are no more than a handful of surviving mob members in the area, with no viable organization to unite them, and no leader.

Several retired state and local law enforcement officials who specialized in Mafia investigations agreed.

the FBI’s contention that the Buffalo mob family no longer is active and no longer has a leader.

I’ll take the alleged underbosses’ word over a pencil pusher who has probably not worked on the streets for 20 years. Also, the article from 2006 is very general. Federal investigators. Which federal investigators. In 2006 a hell of a lot more Members were alive including Todaro Sr so not sure what they are talking about. That guy was definitely the recognized head of Buffalo

[Patrickgold]

^^^ Yes, Fino before and after this article has indicated Buffalo is still around. But in this article Herbeck quotes Fino as saying:

“There are a few remnants of the mob that still exist in Buffalo,” said Ronald Fino, a former union leader who helped the FBI investigate the local mob, “but it’s not the same.”

And yes this was written in March 2017 around 8 months before Otremens indicated the Todaro family was active in Canada. Here is the issue: One would think Canadian LE would have shared some of their intelligence with the FBI by this time. Gives credence as to why Wiseguy, Confederate and Pogo are so adamant Buffalo doesn’t really exist as a structured family. I would love to know why Cohen was unaware of these developments - if the family really does exist - which I believe it does.

Yes, I don’t think there is any question that they are still around. Canada LE is saying, the Buffalo underboss is saying it, Buffalo “organized crime expert” is saying it and OC expert Peter Edwards is saying it. No question.