Cleveland Crime Family

[Stroccos]

Just to steer things back to the Fratto Indictment, the wording "purported" stuck out to me, as one is left wondering who exactly is doing the purporting. Just to be clear, this is language from the US Attorney for the Northern District of IL, not the FBI. But it still brings up the question of who were these alleged Cleveland "members" and what party was responsible for implicating them as members of a "Cleveland organized crime family". The US Attorney's office apparently thought this was significant enough to the case to cite it in the indictment, but it raises more questions than it answers.

it was papalardo who is made

[PolackTony]

Just to steer things back to the Fratto Indictment, the wording "purported" stuck out to me, as one is left wondering who exactly is doing the purporting. Just to be clear, this is language from the US Attorney for the Northern District of IL, not the FBI. But it still brings up the question of who were these alleged Cleveland "members" and what party was responsible for implicating them as members of a "Cleveland organized crime family". The US Attorney's office apparently thought this was significant enough to the case to cite it in the indictment, but it raises more questions than it answers.

it was papalardo who is made

Thanks for confirming.

[Angelo Santino]

From DiLeonardo's Q&A.

10. I'd love to know more about his dealings with Pete Milano and his general knowledge of the Los Angeles Family.

-First time I met Pete was without a proper CN introduction, when I was out in Cali, he wanted to meet me through a made guy that was with him whom I was not formally introduced to also. We were the next time he came to NY through Joe G. from the bronx, we had lunch with Milano, he expressed opening a door for them and us. Second time was a beef , Joe Isgro from Cali, a non member and Joe Armone's nephew, was told by Pete he had to pay protection to operate out there. I went out to Cali with Jack Damico, we had lunch with Pete, a captain with him and this made guy. Pete felt Cali was his and he wanted tribute, he had about 40k of Joe’s money through a business deal, I told Pete those days are over, he does not control the state, Pete paid 10k towards the money, I told Pete, Joe was proposed for membership and we were not going to be shaken down, we agreed Joe operates on his own and if they have deals they can do, fine. Joe was made, he is a great guy I was very close to Joe, later on Pete did not pay the balance, saying he was broke, I sent him some very insulting messages through his guy, this guy offered to pay it off saying he is embarrassed, I told him no thanks, it is worth the balance just insulting this bum, I then shut them out of any business dealing with Joe and us. Frank Valenti was being handled by Milano, Valenti said Pete was not treating him right, I asked how did you get with Pete, he said the commission put him with Pete being he was in Arizona. I liked Frank it made me enjoy more sending insults. I have another part to the story but may save that for a book, involve a huge female singer. Side note he knew of my grandfather and his relationship in the early days. I never asked who was my uncle godfather was that was killed, could be a Leonardo?

Thank you for posting this.

Let's analyze it from different theories, formal vs functional.

Formal
1 He makes a point to state he first met Milano without the formal introduction, which didn't occur until Joe G. (Gambino?) made the introduction later on.
2 Milano expressed "opening the door for us" which means he was considering giving the Gambinos his formal consent for them to operate in his territory.
3 We'll come back to him telling Pete he doesn't control the state, but if Pete didn't control anything then the commission wouldn't have placed Valenti in AZ with LA.
4 A member who owes another member money who doesn't pay is a member in bad standing and can impact careers.

Functional
1 DiLeonardo and Milano's reputations preceded each other, they knew who each other was and what they represented so the formal intro was a mere formality.
2 Pete "opened the door" to the Gambinos with the idea that he'd get tribute from whatever operations they opened there, this is where the art of negotiation comes in, sitdowns, bargainings all that.
3 DiLeonardo telling Milano he didn't control the state is essentially true, he had a lack of manpower under him and DiLeonardo mentioned that in negotiations: they'll come to LA and he'll have a say but he isn't going to set the terms.
4 I once asked him what he missed about his former affiliation the most his response was "winning sitdowns." He was a skilled politician at it, like a cat with a mouse, a master negotiator. Looks like Pete brought a proverbial knife to a gunfight. This is representative of business negotiations more so than mafia intrigue.
5 All mob bosses and members in theory are equal but in actuality a small family isn't going to get uppity, at the same time, the larger family won't press their luck either. If they were to move in without an agreement no one could do anything about it, except it'd be in violation and other families could use that against them as an example of the Gambinos abusing their power.

Neither theory discredits the other.

[Angelo Santino]

Question... earlier I stated that two individuals were made in LA after Milano had passed. I can't locate that source. If no one knows what I'm talking about then perhaps I'm confused or mistaken? Thanks.

[bronx]

great stuff CHRIS !

[Wiseguy]

Question... earlier I stated that two individuals were made in LA after Milano had passed. I can't locate that source. If no one knows what I'm talking about then perhaps I'm confused or mistaken? Thanks.

I'd also like to know who claimed that. Milano died in 2012 and I highly doubt anyone was getting made in LA by that point.

[Stroccos]

From DiLeonardo's Q&A.

10. I'd love to know more about his dealings with Pete Milano and his general knowledge of the Los Angeles Family.

-First time I met Pete was without a proper CN introduction, when I was out in Cali, he wanted to meet me through a made guy that was with him whom I was not formally introduced to also. We were the next time he came to NY through Joe G. from the bronx, we had lunch with Milano, he expressed opening a door for them and us. Second time was a beef , Joe Isgro from Cali, a non member and Joe Armone's nephew, was told by Pete he had to pay protection to operate out there. I went out to Cali with Jack Damico, we had lunch with Pete, a captain with him and this made guy. Pete felt Cali was his and he wanted tribute, he had about 40k of Joe’s money through a business deal, I told Pete those days are over, he does not control the state, Pete paid 10k towards the money, I told Pete, Joe was proposed for membership and we were not going to be shaken down, we agreed Joe operates on his own and if they have deals they can do, fine. Joe was made, he is a great guy I was very close to Joe, later on Pete did not pay the balance, saying he was broke, I sent him some very insulting messages through his guy, this guy offered to pay it off saying he is embarrassed, I told him no thanks, it is worth the balance just insulting this bum, I then shut them out of any business dealing with Joe and us. Frank Valenti was being handled by Milano, Valenti said Pete was not treating him right, I asked how did you get with Pete, he said the commission put him with Pete being he was in Arizona. I liked Frank it made me enjoy more sending insults. I have another part to the story but may save that for a book, involve a huge female singer. Side note he knew of my grandfather and his relationship in the early days. I never asked who was my uncle godfather was that was killed, could be a Leonardo?

Thank you for posting this.

Let's analyze it from different theories, formal vs functional.

Formal
1 He makes a point to state he first met Milano without the formal introduction, which didn't occur until Joe G. (Gambino?) made the introduction later on.
2 Milano expressed "opening the door for us" which means he was considering giving the Gambinos his formal consent for them to operate in his territory.
3 We'll come back to him telling Pete he doesn't control the state, but if Pete didn't control anything then the commission wouldn't have placed Valenti in AZ with LA.
4 A member who owes another member money who doesn't pay is a member in bad standing and can impact careers.

Functional
1 DiLeonardo and Milano's reputations preceded each other, they knew who each other was and what they represented so the formal intro was a mere formality.
2 Pete "opened the door" to the Gambinos with the idea that he'd get tribute from whatever operations they opened there, this is where the art of negotiation comes in, sitdowns, bargainings all that.
3 DiLeonardo telling Milano he didn't control the state is essentially true, he had a lack of manpower under him and DiLeonardo mentioned that in negotiations: they'll come to LA and he'll have a say but he isn't going to set the terms.
4 I once asked him what he missed about his former affiliation the most his response was "winning sitdowns." He was a skilled politician at it, like a cat with a mouse, a master negotiator. Looks like Pete brought a proverbial knife to a gunfight. This is representative of business negotiations more so than mafia intrigue.
5 All mob bosses and members in theory are equal but in actuality a small family isn't going to get uppity, at the same time, the larger family won't press their luck either. If they were to move in without an agreement no one could do anything about it, except it'd be in violation and other families could use that against them as an example of the Gambinos abusing their power.

Neither theory discredits the other.

Great breakdown but In a sense milano got his tribute when he didn’t pay the money back

[Stroccos]

Just to steer things back to the Fratto Indictment, the wording "purported" stuck out to me, as one is left wondering who exactly is doing the purporting. Just to be clear, this is language from the US Attorney for the Northern District of IL, not the FBI. But it still brings up the question of who were these alleged Cleveland "members" and what party was responsible for implicating them as members of a "Cleveland organized crime family". The US Attorney's office apparently thought this was significant enough to the case to cite it in the indictment, but it raises more questions than it answers.

It was cerones son Jack , he invested in a company with the Cleveland guys and he pressured the guy in debt , we can only assume he said hey do U know who u owe more eh to in Cleveland

Rudy got involved and since he and papalardo where both made guys he could get Russ Papalardo to back off and work out a payment arrangement

[Frank]

So when Joe Loose died how many members left?

[Pogo The Clown]

Re: Lonardo

I'd have to see the exact context of Lonardo's statement about the organization being "destroyed",

From his senate testimony in 1988.


Senator Glenn: Do you believe the family is still operating in that area, in the Cleveland area?
Lonardo: The Cleveland family?
Senator Glenn: The LCN family.
Lonardo: There is no family there right now. It was destroyed.

To add to this here is the follow up question about the family possibly coming back.


Senator Glenn: You mentioned that some of the younger members perhaps might come back, there was something you alluded to in the last part of your testimony, I believe. Do you feel there will be an attempt made to bring back family influence there?

Lonardo: Well, there is Tommy Sinito, he is in jail, Tony Liberatore is also in jail. I don't know when they will be out. It will be a long time before they will be out. There might be an attempt by them, but I doubt they will get any okay from anybody to take over.


Senator Glenn is referring to Lonardo prepared statement to the committee which Christie posted earlier. Here is it is again. Reading both of his statements it looks like Lonardo is drawing a clear distinction between the Cleveland family itself being finished and the Cleveland LCN being finished.

At the same time, the Government has successfully convicted many members, including most of the Cleveland family. However, this does not mean the La Cosa Nostra is finished in Cleveland or elsewhere. Many of the made "members," such as Anthony Liberatore, Tommy Sinito, and others, will be released in the next few years. In addition, there are many young men who are still in Cleveland who would have been "made" if we had had the time to do so before we were incarcerated.

So when Joe Loose died how many members left?

1-3 left after he died.


Pogo

[Antiliar]

Here's the Rudy Fratto indictment, but it doesn't name the Cleveland guys:
http://americannewspost.com/docs/jfosco ... ronemo.pdf

[Angelo Santino]

Question... earlier I stated that two individuals were made in LA after Milano had passed. I can't locate that source. If no one knows what I'm talking about then perhaps I'm confused or mistaken? Thanks.

I'd also like to know who claimed that. Milano died in 2012 and I highly doubt anyone was getting made in LA by that point.

Yeah, I have to retract that.

There are two individuals according from two separate sources who are LA members but I'll let B. explain it, it's not my information and I already muddled it. Sorry for the confusion.

[B.]

well I know protocol was followed with agenllo himself not sure if the nyc group reached out, But angello was freinds with some cleveland guys from prison, angello informed them of his move and remains friends with the Cleveland guys, is there any truth to agnello being shelved ? people kinda admired Agnello in cleveland


the main reason tronolone was made boss so he could control jackie presser for tony salerno , when Cleveland needed to reach out to nyc they would go through peanuts tronolone , so he was in the new York loop , his close friendship with tony salerno made tronolone a valuable guy

Good info, re: Agnello. Maybe Pogo knows the specifics if they've ever been publicly confirmed, but the perception is that Agnello lost standing in the Gambino family years back based on what his ex-wife and sons did on TV, his brother-in-law's falling out with the organization, and Agnello's own issues. Still, he's a made member of the Gambino family so the Gambino family would had to have known he moved to Cleveland and either approved or didn't care.

So Cleveland underworld figures were in the loop on Agnello moving there and he was friendly with them. Sounds like it was more of a social connection though would be interesting to know if they gave an kind of "formal" nod.

What you said about Tronolone plays into what I'm getting at about him... he was a networker. He knew Tony Salerno from Florida, as Salerno used to be a constant presence in Florida to meet with Mike Coppola and Salerno was planning to reside there permanently before Salerno rose through the ranks of the Genovese family. Between that relationship and Tronolone's ties to other mafia families around the country, he was the ideal representative and we can see his place in the network was put to immediate use with his involvement in the Buffalo conflict and the Philly war

Many early US bosses were in that position not because they dominated local rackets, but because of their spot in the network. The Cleveland family was in shambles, but Tronolone wasn't much different politically from early US bosses like Gaspare Milazzo, Frank Lanza, Rosario Desimone, etc. who were outsiders that took over families around the US because of their place in the network. Licavoli is like that, too, but of course he was less of an outsider in Cleveland.

[Tonyd621]

Rus Paps brother Fred worked for Frank Russo who was county auditor and owned Carriage Hills(Hill, hillside something like that) a real estate company that employed Rus Pap who was a licensed real estate agent, allegedly and all neighbors with Jimmy Dimora-the politican in cuyhoga county who got 20 something yrs for RICO predicates... I believe russ and fred were unindicted co conspirators, but dont quote me on that. I just remembered this bc i seen an article on jimmy dimora getting covid in prison a month ago. This was all back about maybe 2010s, maybe 2015
Im not saying this is reflective of a viable mob family, what i am saying is a made guy and his brother had their hooks in county politicans and werent pinched for it. Can they have been doing other stuff on the side? Possibly. But it could of also just been a neighborhood thing bc they all lived in the same sub division, mostly neighbors

[B.]

There are two individuals according from two separate sources who are LA members but I'll let B. explain it, it's not my information and I already muddled it. Sorry for the confusion.

Allegedly Tony Gambino (brother of Tommy, son of Rosario) is a made member who lives (part time?) in Los Angeles. I have no idea if he is formally part of the Los Angeles family like his brother, only that he is alleged to be a made member. You can ask Michael DiLeonardo about this when you speak to him again and maybe if Felice sees this he can also weigh in, as he is familiar with Tony Gambino.

The other reference we talked about is murdered Canadian figure Albert Iavarone, who was reported by a Canadian journalist (via a 2017 source in Canadian LE) to have been straightened out in Los Angeles, which upset Buffalo boss Joe Todaro because he was not informed of Iavarone's membership status in LA:

https://www.thespec.com/news/crime/2020 ... -home.html

Beyond those possible examples, I have nothing else to add. It's possible Los Angeles can still be used to issue "union cards" which are recognized by other groups, though it's difficult to imagine much of a "crime family" existing in LA in recent years. However, as mentioned earlier, Tommy Gambino's father and relatives in Sicily and NYC were arrested last year so he is part of a network that is alive and well, plus Sciacca boss Accursio Dimino was recently recorded talking about putting Sicilian mafia slot machines in California. The mafia doesn't typically make "cold calls", so we can assume Dimino has contacts in California and Tommy Gambino would be a strong candidate given who his relatives are.