Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[johnny_scootch]

So that to me is in indication they indeed viewed themselves as their own family by then.

The thing about viewing yourself as an independent family is it means absolutely nothing if the rest of the organization doesn't view you as such. For them to truly break off and be able to make guys who were then viewed as members by the rest of Cosa Nostra they need an OK. Being in Canada and far enough away from American Cosa Nostra its possible that ok came from the Sicilians but it needs to come from somewhere.

[Moscone65]

I think the rizzutos were so powerful that even if the bonnanos didn’t want to accept their independence, they pretty much forced it upon all nearby criminal elements and other crime families. Plus if they weren’t part of LCN then they were probably oked by CN families such as the caruana cuntreras and others in Sicily. I’m sure other families such as the Gambinos and Detroit accepted rizzuto made guys when they went to meet with them. Once a few families start having respect for an organization and accepting another groups made guys, it doesn’t matter if it wasn’t made official. They are important and powerful men.

[Rat]

I haven’t been following this thread recently, has there been any breakthroughs?

[antimafia]

^^^^
Manning is very accessible on Twitter. You and others should feel free to ask him a question by either tagging him in a tweet or in a reply to one of his tweets.

Later I'll copy-paste in this thread more of my Twitter exchange with him from last night.

Why is he not here anymore?

I don't know. I won't ask him either, as I was never the person who invited him to sign up here. I don't think he knows that I am signed up here, as he knows me only through my Twitter handle.

If he and I have disagreements in public Twitter exchanges, we are always civil toward each other. Same with our DMs. I don't ask him for charts, documents, or other files.

[antimafia]

^^^^
Manning stated here on TBHF that Pat and Angelo’s father and uncle were made in tbe ‘ndrangheta and answered to Calabria. Manning also stated that, in the 1990s, Pat was desperate to be made — he couldn’t be inducted into tbe Calabrian mafia — so he asked Papalia to make him.

But Musitano was rebuffed. Manning thinks that Musitano then turned to Vito Rizzuto in the hope of being made.

If all the above is true, my guess is that Pino Avignone couldn’t be made in the ‘ndrangheta either.

Forgive my ignorance, but why couldn't Pat be made into the Ndrangheta? I would think that the bosses that Dominic Musitano answered to would actually want him to bring his sons in to keep it in the family. If the rest of that all played out the way Manning says than that's pretty crazy - could Musitano really have been made with the RIzzutos? Are there any documented links between the 2 families besides those meetings that were observed around the time of the Papalia hit? As far as Papalia making Pat, in practice that would mean proposing him to Buffalo right? Or was Pops actually making guys up in the Hammer? So many questions and so few answers when it comes to the players in Ontario and Buffalo.

If you asked Manning, he would probably have a concrete answer with content that is very much different from my speculation below.

There is a misconception about the son(s) of an 'ndranghetista: that upon a male baby's being born, he is an already inducted member of the 'ndrangheta. The pentito Luigi Bonaventura, a former 'ndranghetista, was quoted in one of Antonio Nicaso and Nicola Gratteri's books as saying that membership is not a birthright. Anna Sergi told me in person that there are some 'ndrangheta clans that do consider a newborn male to be automatically inducted if the father is.

I'm not sure whether the birthplace of John Papalia's father, Delianuova, has anything to do with Pat Musitano's being unable to become inducted into the 'ndrangheta -- other people, like Paul Manning, may know whether Musitano's request was rejected or an impossibility. The Musitanos in Ontario who were involved in organized crime in that province also had ancestry from Delianuova; in fact, John Papalia was Pat Musitano's baptismal godfather. If geography did play a part in all this, another variable is that both the Papalia and Musitano clans in Delianuova seemed to have moved their base of power to Platì last century.

At a certain point in the 2000s after a number of significant organized-crime events transpired, such as the murder of Siderno Group member Vincenzo Raco in Woodbridge (Vaughan, Ontario) in 2005 and the prison release of Pat and Angelo Musitano in 2006, we learned that Francesco Arcadi was a liaison between the Rizzuto organization / Montreal Mafia and mobsters in Ontario such as Pat Musitano. I would have first learned from one of the TBHF posters on here -- and I would have learned this on another forum -- that Arcadi had a brother-in-law with the Musitano surname, which i think is just really a coincidence because of the prevalence of that latter surname. There are Arcadis and Musitanos, involved in organized crime in Italy, who have intermarried.

In late 1987 and in the first three months of 1988, Tony Musitano, who was paroled in February 1988, was reported to have sometimes used his weekend privileges to meet friends in Quebec -- if he was meeting mobsters, which ones? James Dubro had said in one recent interview about Pat Musitano's murder that both Tony and brother Domenic (Pat and Angelo's father) kept their distance from the Rizzutos.

One problem with Manning's narrative that Pat Musitano got his button after being released from prison in 2006, specifically from Vito Rizzuto, is that Rizzuto had been continuously detained ever since he was arrested on January 20, 2004. Francesco Del Balso is someone who Canadian law enforcement had identified as being in the Montreal Mafia hierarchy, under Lorenzo Giordano, and Giordano might not have been made till the eve of Rizzuto's January 2004 arrest. A number of years later, Del Balso made the claim in court that he was a member of the mafia, specifically a lieutenant in the Rizzuto clan -- when did Del Balso get made, by whom, and into what secret society?

I realize that if Musitano and Del Balso were in fact made into a Montreal crime group, that Rizzuto might not have been the one who conducted the making ceremony. If Musitano was made into the Bonanno Family after his release because Montreal was a branch plant of the New York-based
Bonannos, where did his true loyalty lie: to New York or Montreal?

[Moscone65]

^^^^
Manning stated here on TBHF that Pat and Angelo’s father and uncle were made in tbe ‘ndrangheta and answered to Calabria. Manning also stated that, in the 1990s, Pat was desperate to be made — he couldn’t be inducted into tbe Calabrian mafia — so he asked Papalia to make him.

But Musitano was rebuffed. Manning thinks that Musitano then turned to Vito Rizzuto in the hope of being made.

If all the above is true, my guess is that Pino Avignone couldn’t be made in the ‘ndrangheta either.

Forgive my ignorance, but why couldn't Pat be made into the Ndrangheta? I would think that the bosses that Dominic Musitano answered to would actually want him to bring his sons in to keep it in the family. If the rest of that all played out the way Manning says than that's pretty crazy - could Musitano really have been made with the RIzzutos? Are there any documented links between the 2 families besides those meetings that were observed around the time of the Papalia hit? As far as Papalia making Pat, in practice that would mean proposing him to Buffalo right? Or was Pops actually making guys up in the Hammer? So many questions and so few answers when it comes to the players in Ontario and Buffalo.

If you asked Manning, he would probably have a concrete answer with content that is very much different from my speculation below.

There is a misconception about the son(s) of an 'ndranghetista: that upon a male baby's being born, he is an already inducted member of the 'ndrangheta. The pentito Luigi Bonaventura, a former 'ndranghetista, was quoted in one of Antonio Nicaso and Nicola Gratteri's books as saying that membership is not a birthright. Anna Sergi told me in person that there are some 'ndrangheta clans that do consider a newborn male to be automatically inducted if the father is.

I'm not sure whether the birthplace of John Papalia's father, Delianuova, has anything to do with Pat Musitano's being unable to become inducted into the 'ndrangheta -- other people, like Paul Manning, may know whether Musitano's request was rejected or an impossibility. The Musitanos in Ontario who were involved in organized crime in that province also had ancestry from Delianuova; in fact, John Papalia was Pat Musitano's baptismal godfather. If geography did play a part in all this, another variable is that both the Papalia and Musitano clans in Delianuova seemed to have moved their base of power to Platì last century.

At a certain point in the 2000s after a number of significant organized-crime events transpired, such as the murder of Siderno Group member Vincenzo Raco in Woodbridge (Vaughan, Ontario) in 2005 and the prison release of Pat and Angelo Musitano in 2006, we learned that Francesco Arcadi was a liaison between the Rizzuto organization / Montreal Mafia and mobsters in Ontario such as Pat Musitano. I would have first learned from one of the TBHF posters on here -- and I would have learned this on another forum -- that Arcadi had a brother-in-law with the Musitano surname, which i think is just really a coincidence because of the prevalence of that latter surname. There are Arcadis and Musitanos, involved in organized crime in Italy, who have intermarried.

In late 1987 and in the first three months of 1988, Tony Musitano, who was paroled in February 1988, was reported to have sometimes used his weekend privileges to meet friends in Quebec -- if he was meeting mobsters, which ones? James Dubro had said in one recent interview about Pat Musitano's murder that both Tony and brother Domenic (Pat and Angelo's father) kept their distance from the Rizzutos.

One problem with Manning's narrative that Pat Musitano got his button after being released from prison in 2006, specifically from Vito Rizzuto, is that Rizzuto had been continuously detained ever since he was arrested on January 20, 2004. Francesco Del Balso is someone who Canadian law enforcement had identified as being in the Montreal Mafia hierarchy, under Lorenzo Giordano, and Giordano might not have been made till the eve of Rizzuto's January 2004 arrest. A number of years later, Del Balso made the claim in court that he was a member of the mafia, specifically a lieutenant in the Rizzuto clan -- when did Del Balso get made, by whom, and into what secret society?

I realize that if Musitano and Del Balso were in fact made into a Montreal crime group, that Rizzuto might not have been the one who conducted the making ceremony. If Musitano was made into the Bonanno Family after his release because Montreal was a branch plant of the New York-based
Bonannos, where did his true loyalty lie: to New York or Montreal?

Definitely Montreal. To be honest I don’t think New York has much of a say in what going on in Canada anymore. (NYC, not buffalo). Clearly there are still meetings to get messages, mob politics and do business, but I think that’s it. And I’m not sure about kids being inducted when they are baptized/born, but I have a good friend who supposedly was “made” into a Toronto ndrina when he was 14-15 because his dad was being locked up for a long time and he wanted to make him personally. His dad was also the head of the ndrina at the time.

[BobbyBacala]

I find it very weird pat couldn't be made into the ndrangheta that is probably bs

[antimafia]

I find it very weird pat couldn't be made into the ndrangheta that is probably bs

As weird as Domenico Violi not becoming a made member till January 2015 allegedly?

[BobbyBacala]

I find it very weird pat couldn't be made into the ndrangheta that is probably bs

As weird as Domenico Violi not becoming a made member till January 2015 allegedly?

Into la cosa nostra or the ndrangheta?

[johnny_scootch]

I find it very weird pat couldn't be made into the ndrangheta that is probably bs

As weird as Domenico Violi not becoming a made member till January 2015 allegedly?

Into la cosa nostra or the ndrangheta?

Cosa Nostra via the Todaro family.

I'd like to hear one plausible reason why the Musitano's couldn't be initiated into the Ndrangheta, just one.

[antimafia]

^^^^
‘ndrangheta politics, both on the Italian mainland and in Ontario.

[Frank]

I find it very weird pat couldn't be made into the ndrangheta that is probably bs

As weird as Domenico Violi not becoming a made member till January 2015 allegedly?

Into la cosa nostra or the ndrangheta?

Cosa Nostra via the Todaro family.

I'd like to hear one plausible reason why the Musitano's couldn't be initiated into the Ndrangheta, just one.

Had his baptism godfather killed.

[CabriniGreen]

I would say it's as simple as the Musitano-Papalias are all under the Barbaros from Plati in Italy- Austrailia, and Pat and Ange, after so much time in America, they no longer have a deep family connection, for one. And the Barbaros have never held power in the Americas....

I think another reason is that Toronto is Siderno and Giosia Iconica, and the other one, Marina Giosia Iconica?
Controlled repectivily by the Commisos- Figliomeni, and the Ursino, and Aquino- Collucio.

Also apparently there were figures in Calabrian OC that were not happy they and jumped in bed with the Rizzutos.

Question here...

Why would Buffalo sanction Papalias murder? Actually forget that... I got better questions..

Why would Buffalo authorize the Musitanos to take over a lucrative gambling territory, under thier long time lieutenant, let them kill the lieutenant, then allow them, to kick up to the Rizzutos, therefore ceding the territory?

Why did the Violi- Luppinos go for it? Why did Buffalo go for it? Shouldn't they have been seething that the Rizzutos again stepped on their toes? Just like during Maggadinos time? Hamilton rackets should have went to them it seems to me.

@antimafia

The fact that the people like the Violis, and Miriarchi were so involved in all this, and were NOT made guys, and to date havent really been touched, ( there was the Cece hit, so not completely untouched..) has to make one reevaluate their perceptions as far as who REALLY holds power up there.

[CabriniGreen]

Also, it was really fascinating to see Cece Luppinos name come up in a wiretapped convo between Siderno group mobsters in Italy.

This whole thing has SO many layers and angles...

[BobbyBacala]

The violis were certainly made into the ndrangheta well before 2015 and the musitano bros were doing crimes before the papalia hit so their father most likely had them made its possible he didnt but I doubt it and the papalia hit was sanctioned anyway by buffalo and vito rizzuto papalia ripped off rizzuto 7 million what a idiot