Genovese rats

[TommyShots]

A large portion is luck as well.

You could’ve asked this question in 2000 about the Bonanno’s who prior to Coppa had ZERO rats.
Look how that turned out.

Except a lot of pressure was off the Bonannos for at least a decade before the rats came out once the heat was back on. The Genovese have been hit by law enforcement again and again, with no such reprieve, and they haven't had a max exodus of people running to the government like the other families.

Genovese have had 10 members flip, Gambino 12, not much in it

Yeah but the damage the Gambino rats did was greater. Gravano & DiLeonardi

[Wiseguy]

A large portion is luck as well.

You could’ve asked this question in 2000 about the Bonanno’s who prior to Coppa had ZERO rats.
Look how that turned out.

Except a lot of pressure was off the Bonannos for at least a decade before the rats came out once the heat was back on. The Genovese have been hit by law enforcement again and again, with no such reprieve, and they haven't had a max exodus of people running to the government like the other families.

Genovese have had 10 members flip, Gambino 12, not much in it

First, I think an asterisk needs to be put next to anyone before Valachi because, aside from him being the first known member to flip, that's when you get into distant names of guys who we really don't know much about. Then your relative count between families can get skewed because some names may be successfully dug up while others aren't.

Second, I wouldn't be too sure about Moscatiello. The only thing I've ever seen regarding him was a small blurb somewhere that briefly talked him possibly being in talks to cooperate shortly before he died.

Third, one thing about Genovese members who have flipped is it's either been soldiers or captains in outposts like Massachusetts or Florida. No captains (or higher) from the family's power base in New York/New Jersey where a lot more damage could be done.

That said, the Gambinos have certainly been the next most successful when it comes to turncoats. They did have Gravano as underboss flip and he did a lot of damage. Also a captain (Mikey Scars). But the rest have been soldiers.

Funny how the three smaller families have all had turncoats numbering in the mid-high teens.

[furiofromnaples]

Valachi was marked to death by Genovese and killed an innocent inmate that thinked would whack him so he flipped for save his life;
George Barone was an old made man that was shelved because he doesnt wanted to give a no show job in union to the gigante's kid so he flipped because he feel insulted;
Tranchese and Arliotta was a massachusetts capos that was young and don't want to wastw their life for the boss in NY.

I dont know the others but in this cases everyone would flip.

[TommyShots]

Valachi was marked to death by Genovese and killed an innocent inmate that thinked would whack him so he flipped for save his life;
George Barone was an old made man that was shelved because he doesnt wanted to give a no show job in union to the gigante's kid so he flipped because he feel insulted;
Tranchese and Arliotta was a massachusetts capos that was young and don't want to wastw their life for the boss in NY.

I dont know the others but in this cases everyone would flip.

Fish Cafaro flipped cus Fat Tony disrespected him

[SonnyBlackstein]

Genovese have had 10 members flip, Gambino 12, not much in it

This.

People are acting like there’s a secret sauce when in reality there’s really no difference whatsoever when you look at the actual numbers.

[JohnnyS]

Wiseguy is right though, the Genovese defections have been a lot less damaging plus they've been a bigger family than the Gambinos so the numbers don't tell the full story. Not even a NY based capo or higher has flipped. Gambinos had guys flipping because of bad leadership from the Gotti's. Would DiLeonardo have flipped then if Peter Gotti hadn't put on the shelf and accused him of stealing when they were indicted? No plea deals also contributed to it.

[moneyman]

Even today there are still arguments over whether Benny Squint was the actual boss, and this is 40-50 years ago. Does anyone doubt if Castellano or Corallo were boss? This speaks volumes.

I agree they've been lucky with informants, there hasn't been a ripple effect of rats like we've seen with other families.

[slimshady_007]

A large portion is luck as well.

You could’ve asked this question in 2000 about the Bonanno’s who prior to Coppa had ZERO rats.
Look how that turned out.

Yea definitely the Westside is very lucky. The feds could’ve nailed a lot of guys for murder, but it seemed the suspects lucked out. For example, Ralph Coppola in 1998 and Lawrence Ricci in 2005. The fbi has a good idea about who was responsible/ ordered the murders but because the evidence they had was weak, nothing much came of the cases. (I only remember a soldier got a relatively short sentence for the Ralph Coppola murder conspiracy.) My point being, if more Genovese guys were pinched for murder its likely the family would have more informants. Like Gene Borello said, guys dont flip when they face 5 years. They flip when their facing football numbers.

Don't forget Rudy Izzi in 2007. Is it luck or that they did a good job of carrying out those hits?

The Izzi hit was very well planned. The killers broke into his house at night while Izzi was sleeping. Im not sure its even known why he was killed. In my opinion the westside does a good job at planning out hits. They aren’t whacking their targets in broad daylight in front of witnesses. However, I really think the family lucked out w the Ricci murder. The feds had Mike Coppola and Louis Rizzo Jr on tape discussing the gun that was supposedly used for the hit.

[JeremyTheJew]

A large portion is luck as well.

You could’ve asked this question in 2000 about the Bonanno’s who prior to Coppa had ZERO rats.
Look how that turned out.

Except a lot of pressure was off the Bonannos for at least a decade before the rats came out once the heat was back on. The Genovese have been hit by law enforcement again and again, with no such reprieve, and they haven't had a max exodus of people running to the government like the other families.

Genovese have had 10 members flip, Gambino 12, not much in it

How many made ?

[NYNighthawk]

Cafaro the Fish - bodyguard for Tony salerno was a big flip

[JeremyTheJew]

Cafaro the Fish - bodyguard for Tony salerno was a big flip

He is the one that revealed the rotating bosses position I believe.

[furiofromnaples]

A large portion is luck as well.

You could’ve asked this question in 2000 about the Bonanno’s who prior to Coppa had ZERO rats.
Look how that turned out.

Except a lot of pressure was off the Bonannos for at least a decade before the rats came out once the heat was back on. The Genovese have been hit by law enforcement again and again, with no such reprieve, and they haven't had a max exodus of people running to the government like the other families.

Genovese have had 10 members flip, Gambino 12, not much in it

How many made ?

http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2011/02/ ... r.html?m=1

Genovese Crime Family - 8 Members who have Flipped

Anthony “Bingy” Arilotta- Soldier
George Barone- Soldier (Dead)
John “Futto” Biello- Capo (Killed)
Vincent "Fish" Cafaro- Soldier
Felix Tranghese- Capo
Joseph "Joe Cago" Valachi- Soldier (Dead)
Louis Moscatiello- Soldier/Acting Capo (Dead)
Renaldi “Ray” Ruggiero - Capo

[furiofromnaples]

Most updated list,the names with * are made men.

https://theblackhand.club/rats-nest/

GENOVESE:
Joseph (Joe Cago) Valachi*
Vincent (Fish) Cafaro*
George Barone*
John (Johnny Futto) Biello*
Anthony (Bingy) Arillotta*
Felix Tranghese *
Renaldi (Ray) Ruggiero*
Michael (Cookie) Durso
Gerald (Jerry) Zelmanowitz
Ernest (Ernie the Hawk) Rupolo
John Bologna
Peter La Tempa
Eugene (Gino) Farina*
Patrick Pizzuto
Anthony (Hickey) DiLorenzo* (susp)
Salvatore (Sally Fish) Maniscalco
Joseph (JB) Barone
Julius (Spike) Bernstein
Natale (Nat) Masselli
Peter Savino
Carmine Francomano, Jr.

[Pmac2]

Louis moscatielo died in that prison hospital butner. Didnt he plead guilty to some union stuff take like 5yrs. I think the daily news or post misprinted something in a article about him and the internet ran with it. Is there any proof he flipped or was it they where trying to bring jim into a grand jury situation. That guy Rey in florida went to trial got smoked and picked up the phone he died not to long after he started cooperating

[TommyGambino]

A large portion is luck as well.

You could’ve asked this question in 2000 about the Bonanno’s who prior to Coppa had ZERO rats.
Look how that turned out.

Except a lot of pressure was off the Bonannos for at least a decade before the rats came out once the heat was back on. The Genovese have been hit by law enforcement again and again, with no such reprieve, and they haven't had a max exodus of people running to the government like the other families.

Genovese have had 10 members flip, Gambino 12, not much in it

How many made ?

12, check pogo's charts