Grand Ave in the Pre-Lombardo Era

[PolackTony]

Thanks for your opinion and additional info on DeBiase and yeah i agree regarding he being one of the old school players from around Grand, which also included Accardo, Capezio, Matteis, Guida, the Aloisio bros, the Mesi bros and Borcia. In fact, some old files regarding the early 30s connect Accardo, the Mesi bros and Borcia to the Mangano group from that same area, so it is possible that DeBiase also belonged to that same crew. I also think that DeBiase had a brother or cousin Frank DeBiase who was also involved in the rackets during those days.

You mean Walter Guida? Not a lot of info on him out there, a description of him as a "northwest side gunman" and as associated with the "Capone Gang" in the papers in the 1930s. I don't see any mention of him after that. If it's the same Guida, he was a Polish kid that grew up in a nearly all Italian section at Ohio and Carpenter, long since demolished for the Kennedy Expressway. It can be confusing as Guida/Di Guida are also Italian surnames of course.

[PolackTony]

Yeah i havent read that book long time now, but I also remember Pascente talking about some other interesting stuff, like when they were kids around Taylor St and they were fighting some other youngsters from Grand Av, and how they yelled at each other stuff like "We have Mooney!" or "We have Joe B!". Thats another interesting example regarding the territorial separation between the crews, meaning even the youngest generation was aware about it and it seems that it was some type of different mentality in Chicago. In New York and other families, the crews usually operate/operated in each others areas, but not in Chicago.

Yep, I recall hearing from other people in the neighborhood about the rivalry back in the day between Taylor St and Grand Ave -- my understanding is that they used to have softball games etc against each other that the Outfit crews sponsored or participated in.

The territorial nature of the Outfit back in those days is an interesting sociological question. One thing I wonder about is the effect of Camorra influences here. Having said that, I think it's more likely due to the structural and geographic idiosyncrasies of settlement and dynamics of community formation in Chicago. This sort of pattern of territorialization might have some continuities with Chicago long history of street gang culture (meaning they could both be products of the same processes of settlement and ethnic succession, and the structural geography of Chicago). Modern Chicago street gang culture of course traces back to the white ethnic gangs of the post-WW2 period, and a number of the important white street gangs of the latter half of the 20th century were of largely Italian origin.

[Villain]

Thanks for your opinion and additional info on DeBiase and yeah i agree regarding he being one of the old school players from around Grand, which also included Accardo, Capezio, Matteis, Guida, the Aloisio bros, the Mesi bros and Borcia. In fact, some old files regarding the early 30s connect Accardo, the Mesi bros and Borcia to the Mangano group from that same area, so it is possible that DeBiase also belonged to that same crew. I also think that DeBiase had a brother or cousin Frank DeBiase who was also involved in the rackets during those days.

You mean Walter Guida? Not a lot of info on him out there, a description of him as a "northwest side gunman" and as associated with the "Capone Gang" in the papers in the 1930s. I don't see any mention of him after that. If it's the same Guida, he was a Polish kid that grew up in a nearly all Italian section at Ohio and Carpenter, long since demolished for the Kennedy Expressway. It can be confusing as Guida/Di Guida are also Italian surnames of course.

Thanks. Do you know if Edward Guida was Italian or maybe he was related to Walter? He is pictured in a 1933 police lineup together with Accardo, Spranze, Hunt and other mobsters. Speaking about that situation, Mike Spranze aka Mike Kelly was another huge player from the old days that I personally dont know much about....he lived on Taylor St but was allegedly mainly present on S Wabash and was described as close Capone associate, and so he was either under Joe Fusco or the Fischettis...in 1954, Spranze also attended Accardos 4th of July party.

[PolackTony]

Thanks for your opinion and additional info on DeBiase and yeah i agree regarding he being one of the old school players from around Grand, which also included Accardo, Capezio, Matteis, Guida, the Aloisio bros, the Mesi bros and Borcia. In fact, some old files regarding the early 30s connect Accardo, the Mesi bros and Borcia to the Mangano group from that same area, so it is possible that DeBiase also belonged to that same crew. I also think that DeBiase had a brother or cousin Frank DeBiase who was also involved in the rackets during those days.

You mean Walter Guida? Not a lot of info on him out there, a description of him as a "northwest side gunman" and as associated with the "Capone Gang" in the papers in the 1930s. I don't see any mention of him after that. If it's the same Guida, he was a Polish kid that grew up in a nearly all Italian section at Ohio and Carpenter, long since demolished for the Kennedy Expressway. It can be confusing as Guida/Di Guida are also Italian surnames of course.

Thanks. Do you know if Edward Guida was Italian or maybe he was related to Walter? He is pictured in a 1933 police lineup together with Accardo, Spranze, Hunt and other mobsters. Speaking about that situation, Mike Spranze aka Mike Kelly was another huge player from the old days that I personally dont know much about....he lived on Taylor St but was allegedly mainly present on S Wabash and was described as close Capone associate, and so he was either under Joe Fusco or the Fischettis...in 1954, Spranze also attended Accardos 4th of July party.

Walter Guida didn't have any relatives named Edward so far as I can tell. Aside from that reference to the lineup I don't see a single other thing about any Edward Guida at all in Chicago. Maybe he was really DiGuida or DiGuido or something, but nothing comes up there either. I suspect that Edward was just an alias of Walter Guida.

[Villain]

Yeah i havent read that book long time now, but I also remember Pascente talking about some other interesting stuff, like when they were kids around Taylor St and they were fighting some other youngsters from Grand Av, and how they yelled at each other stuff like "We have Mooney!" or "We have Joe B!". Thats another interesting example regarding the territorial separation between the crews, meaning even the youngest generation was aware about it and it seems that it was some type of different mentality in Chicago. In New York and other families, the crews usually operate/operated in each others areas, but not in Chicago.

Yep, I recall hearing from other people in the neighborhood about the rivalry back in the day between Taylor St and Grand Ave -- my understanding is that they used to have softball games etc against each other that the Outfit crews sponsored or participated in.

The territorial nature of the Outfit back in those days is an interesting sociological question. One thing I wonder about is the effect of Camorra influences here. Having said that, I think it's more likely due to the structural and geographic idiosyncrasies of settlement and dynamics of community formation in Chicago. This sort of pattern of territorialization might have some continuities with Chicago long history of street gang culture (meaning they could both be products of the same processes of settlement and ethnic succession, and the structural geography of Chicago). Modern Chicago street gang culture of course traces back to the white ethnic gangs of the post-WW2 period, and a number of the important white street gangs of the latter half of the 20th century were of largely Italian origin.

Thanks again. Yes you are completely right, meaning the whole territorialization thing goes all the way back, and im not talking about Prohibition, but instead im talking about the beginning of the 20th century. Even then you had bosses who were forced to stay in their own territories, besides most of them being closely connected with each other.

Mont Tennes from the north wasnt allowed to enter O'Learys area on the south and around the stockyards...or the Gazzolos from the west side were not allowed to enter Kennas and Colosimos area around the Loop etc. The "Mike Merlo" at the time or the main guy who kept the peace between the bosses to an extent, was King Mike McDonald.

The problem was that they always stepped on each others toes and when King Mike died, a lot of bombings occurred and they even formed some type of peace commission which again, was shortly lived.

[Villain]

Thanks for your opinion and additional info on DeBiase and yeah i agree regarding he being one of the old school players from around Grand, which also included Accardo, Capezio, Matteis, Guida, the Aloisio bros, the Mesi bros and Borcia. In fact, some old files regarding the early 30s connect Accardo, the Mesi bros and Borcia to the Mangano group from that same area, so it is possible that DeBiase also belonged to that same crew. I also think that DeBiase had a brother or cousin Frank DeBiase who was also involved in the rackets during those days.

You mean Walter Guida? Not a lot of info on him out there, a description of him as a "northwest side gunman" and as associated with the "Capone Gang" in the papers in the 1930s. I don't see any mention of him after that. If it's the same Guida, he was a Polish kid that grew up in a nearly all Italian section at Ohio and Carpenter, long since demolished for the Kennedy Expressway. It can be confusing as Guida/Di Guida are also Italian surnames of course.

Thanks. Do you know if Edward Guida was Italian or maybe he was related to Walter? He is pictured in a 1933 police lineup together with Accardo, Spranze, Hunt and other mobsters. Speaking about that situation, Mike Spranze aka Mike Kelly was another huge player from the old days that I personally dont know much about....he lived on Taylor St but was allegedly mainly present on S Wabash and was described as close Capone associate, and so he was either under Joe Fusco or the Fischettis...in 1954, Spranze also attended Accardos 4th of July party.

Walter Guida didn't have any relatives named Edward so far as I can tell. Aside from that reference to the lineup I don't see a single other thing about any Edward Guida at all in Chicago. Maybe he was really DiGuida or DiGuido or something, but nothing comes up there either. I suspect that Edward was just an alias of Walter Guida.

Thanks and yeah i also thought about the same thing, meaning it couldve been an alias or a middle name or something

[PolackTony]

Also @Villain you've mentioned "John Matteis" as an early enforcer for Accardo/Capezio. Any further info on this guy? He may have been Giovanni De Matteis Jr, son of Pugliese immigrants from Foggia, grew up in West Humboldt Park by Chicago Ave and Pulaski (at the time Crawford Ave)

[Villain]

Also @Villain you've mentioned "John Matteis" as an early enforcer for Accardo/Capezio. Any further info on this guy? He may have been Giovanni De Matteis Jr, son of Pugliese immigrants from Foggia, grew up in West Humboldt Park by Chicago Ave and Pulaski (at the time Crawford Ave)

Sorry for the late response....his name is misspelled so many times that its very hard to keep track on him. Maybe you are right, i dunno since a lot of Italian mobsters used aliases or changed their last names to an extent. I remember long time ago, i think it was Snakes who gave me some old information about the guy, although theres no question that he was closely associated with Accardo and the rest of the boys. Guilty by association? Who knows?!

You should also check out the Mesi clan, Phil, Sam and James, and i think that James was one time power in the 31st Ward. Also some say that John Borcia was one of Accardo's alleged mentors or something to that effect. Another interesting guy was James Capezio, Tough Tonys brother or cousin i dont really remember....also the Miraglia clan, especially John Miraglia who was killed in 1959

[Confederate]

Also @Villain you've mentioned "John Matteis" as an early enforcer for Accardo/Capezio. Any further info on this guy? He may have been Giovanni De Matteis Jr, son of Pugliese immigrants from Foggia, grew up in West Humboldt Park by Chicago Ave and Pulaski (at the time Crawford Ave)

Sorry for the late response....his name is misspelled so many times that its very hard to keep track on him. Maybe you are right, i dunno since a lot of Italian mobsters used aliases or changed their last names to an extent. I remember long time ago, i think it was Snakes who gave me some old information about the guy, although theres no question that he was closely associated with Accardo and the rest of the boys. Guilty by association? Who knows?!

You should also check out the Mesi clan, Phil, Sam and James, and i think that James was one time power in the 31st Ward. Also some say that John Borcia was one of Accardo's alleged mentors or something to that effect. Another interesting guy was James Capezio, Tough Tonys brother or cousin i dont really remember....also the Miraglia clan, especially John Miraglia who was killed in 1959

Sam Mesi, born in 1900. A big Bookmaker & Boss of the 26th Ward. Also a suspect in 4 gangland slayings.

[Villain]

Also @Villain you've mentioned "John Matteis" as an early enforcer for Accardo/Capezio. Any further info on this guy? He may have been Giovanni De Matteis Jr, son of Pugliese immigrants from Foggia, grew up in West Humboldt Park by Chicago Ave and Pulaski (at the time Crawford Ave)

Sorry for the late response....his name is misspelled so many times that its very hard to keep track on him. Maybe you are right, i dunno since a lot of Italian mobsters used aliases or changed their last names to an extent. I remember long time ago, i think it was Snakes who gave me some old information about the guy, although theres no question that he was closely associated with Accardo and the rest of the boys. Guilty by association? Who knows?!

You should also check out the Mesi clan, Phil, Sam and James, and i think that James was one time power in the 31st Ward. Also some say that John Borcia was one of Accardo's alleged mentors or something to that effect. Another interesting guy was James Capezio, Tough Tonys brother or cousin i dont really remember....also the Miraglia clan, especially John Miraglia who was killed in 1959

Sam Mesi, born in 1900. A big Bookmaker & Boss of the 26th Ward. Also a suspect in 4 gangland slayings.

Thats right and i think Sam was the last one of the Mesi clan who was still looked upon as a big shot even during the Giancana era. I always mix him with his brother Phil....

[PolackTony]

Also @Villain you've mentioned "John Matteis" as an early enforcer for Accardo/Capezio. Any further info on this guy? He may have been Giovanni De Matteis Jr, son of Pugliese immigrants from Foggia, grew up in West Humboldt Park by Chicago Ave and Pulaski (at the time Crawford Ave)

Sorry for the late response....his name is misspelled so many times that its very hard to keep track on him. Maybe you are right, i dunno since a lot of Italian mobsters used aliases or changed their last names to an extent. I remember long time ago, i think it was Snakes who gave me some old information about the guy, although theres no question that he was closely associated with Accardo and the rest of the boys. Guilty by association? Who knows?!

You should also check out the Mesi clan, Phil, Sam and James, and i think that James was one time power in the 31st Ward. Also some say that John Borcia was one of Accardo's alleged mentors or something to that effect. Another interesting guy was James Capezio, Tough Tonys brother or cousin i dont really remember....also the Miraglia clan, especially John Miraglia who was killed in 1959

Sam Mesi, born in 1900. A big Bookmaker & Boss of the 26th Ward. Also a suspect in 4 gangland slayings.

Thats right and i think Sam was the last one of the Mesi clan who was still looked upon as a big shot even during the Giancana era. I always mix him with his brother Phil....

Yes and IIRC correctly there was also another Phil Mesi who was a nephew or something.

[PolackTony]

Also @Villain you've mentioned "John Matteis" as an early enforcer for Accardo/Capezio. Any further info on this guy? He may have been Giovanni De Matteis Jr, son of Pugliese immigrants from Foggia, grew up in West Humboldt Park by Chicago Ave and Pulaski (at the time Crawford Ave)

Sorry for the late response....his name is misspelled so many times that its very hard to keep track on him. Maybe you are right, i dunno since a lot of Italian mobsters used aliases or changed their last names to an extent. I remember long time ago, i think it was Snakes who gave me some old information about the guy, although theres no question that he was closely associated with Accardo and the rest of the boys. Guilty by association? Who knows?!

You should also check out the Mesi clan, Phil, Sam and James, and i think that James was one time power in the 31st Ward. Also some say that John Borcia was one of Accardo's alleged mentors or something to that effect. Another interesting guy was James Capezio, Tough Tonys brother or cousin i dont really remember....also the Miraglia clan, especially John Miraglia who was killed in 1959

Johnny Borcia was actually Barcia, born in Chicago to Palermesi parents. The Miraglias were from Trivigno and settled in he Grand Ave Patch. There was Giovanni Miraglia, and then his son John Jr who I believe is the John Miraglia in question.

[Villain]

Also @Villain you've mentioned "John Matteis" as an early enforcer for Accardo/Capezio. Any further info on this guy? He may have been Giovanni De Matteis Jr, son of Pugliese immigrants from Foggia, grew up in West Humboldt Park by Chicago Ave and Pulaski (at the time Crawford Ave)

Sorry for the late response....his name is misspelled so many times that its very hard to keep track on him. Maybe you are right, i dunno since a lot of Italian mobsters used aliases or changed their last names to an extent. I remember long time ago, i think it was Snakes who gave me some old information about the guy, although theres no question that he was closely associated with Accardo and the rest of the boys. Guilty by association? Who knows?!

You should also check out the Mesi clan, Phil, Sam and James, and i think that James was one time power in the 31st Ward. Also some say that John Borcia was one of Accardo's alleged mentors or something to that effect. Another interesting guy was James Capezio, Tough Tonys brother or cousin i dont really remember....also the Miraglia clan, especially John Miraglia who was killed in 1959

Johnny Borcia was actually Barcia, born in Chicago to Palermesi parents. The Miraglias were from Trivigno and settled in he Grand Ave Patch. There was Giovanni Miraglia, and then his son John Jr who I believe is the John Miraglia in question.

Thanks man, we needed a guy like you around here regarding Chicagos bloodlines. Good job

I wonder if Jimmy Miraglia, the victim in the M&M murders, was also related to them?

The Miraglias were closely associated with the so-called Paul Labriola gang from W Grand. Labriola was Manganos stepson but allegedly worked for Nick DeJohn, a known Grand Av capo under DeGeorge, who during the mid 40s was one of the main guys in charge of the Outfits invasion of Dallas.

Story goes that Mangano publicly trash talked his stepson Labriola and it is possible that at first he worked for his stepdad, but after Manganos demise in 1944, most files show that Labriola was with DeJohn. When DeJohn got killed in 1947, i strongly believe that Labriola joined Accardos group or should i say, the EP crew until his own demise in 1954.

Besides Martin Ochs, Jimmy Weinberg, the Kokenes bros and Miraglia, another interesting Labriola crew member at the time was James Mirro. After Labriolas demise, Mirro remained with the EP crew, while the Kokenes bros went with Gus Alex.

[PolackTony]

Also @Villain you've mentioned "John Matteis" as an early enforcer for Accardo/Capezio. Any further info on this guy? He may have been Giovanni De Matteis Jr, son of Pugliese immigrants from Foggia, grew up in West Humboldt Park by Chicago Ave and Pulaski (at the time Crawford Ave)

Sorry for the late response....his name is misspelled so many times that its very hard to keep track on him. Maybe you are right, i dunno since a lot of Italian mobsters used aliases or changed their last names to an extent. I remember long time ago, i think it was Snakes who gave me some old information about the guy, although theres no question that he was closely associated with Accardo and the rest of the boys. Guilty by association? Who knows?!

You should also check out the Mesi clan, Phil, Sam and James, and i think that James was one time power in the 31st Ward. Also some say that John Borcia was one of Accardo's alleged mentors or something to that effect. Another interesting guy was James Capezio, Tough Tonys brother or cousin i dont really remember....also the Miraglia clan, especially John Miraglia who was killed in 1959

Johnny Borcia was actually Barcia, born in Chicago to Palermesi parents. The Miraglias were from Trivigno and settled in he Grand Ave Patch. There was Giovanni Miraglia, and then his son John Jr who I believe is the John Miraglia in question.

Thanks man, we needed a guy like you around here regarding Chicagos bloodlines. Good job

I wonder if Jimmy Miraglia, the victim in the M&M murders, was also related to them?

The Miraglias were closely associated with the so-called Paul Labriola gang from W Grand. Labriola was Manganos stepson but allegedly worked for Nick DeJohn, a known Grand Av capo under DeGeorge, who during the mid 40s was one of the main guys in charge of the Outfits invasion of Dallas.

Story goes that Mangano publicly trash talked his stepson Labriola and it is possible that at first he worked for his stepdad, but after Manganos demise in 1944, most files show that Labriola was with DeJohn. When DeJohn got killed in 1947, i strongly believe that Labriola joined Accardos group or should i say, the EP crew until his own demise in 1954.

Besides Martin Ochs, Jimmy Weinberg, the Kokenes bros and Miraglia, another interesting Labriola crew member at the time was James Mirro. After Labriolas demise, Mirro remained with the EP crew, while the Kokenes bros went with Gus Alex.

I know that Sam Mesi was questioned by the police as a suspect in the killings of Labriola and Weinberg. The Tribune later stated that this hit was part of the feud between Ricca and Accardo that Torrio and Tony Ricci came for their sitdown to smooth out. You think this holds water? I wonder also if some of the hits on the Sicilian-connected elements in the 40s and 50s had any connection to the Ricca / Accardo thing, like part of a struggle between old Grand Ave/Westside guys and Taylor st?

Paul Labriola was of course Paul Jr, his father Paolo Angelo Labriola was from Ruoti, Potenza and was knocked down in 1921. Paul Jr's mother Lucille Rossi then married Dago Mangano. Lucille had it rough, as both of her husbands and her son were murdered.

Cowboy Mirro was raised in the Taylor St area, his family was from Napoli. Not sure when and how he got plugged in the Grand Ave guys, but I know that in the 1960s the Feds had him as running a big gambling iperation with Jimmy Capezio out of an American Legion post at Grand and Damen. Haven't seen much info on him after he he was sent away in the 60s. BTW Jimmy Capezio I don't think was Tony Capezio's brother. Maybe they were cousins, though I haven't been successful in establishing that.

[PolackTony]

Also @ Villain, if I'm not mistaken, the Feds were trying to put something together at one point to pop Giancana for drugs, and their thinking was that Mirro, Infelice, and Di Pietto were meeting with him regarding narcotics operations, right? Any other evidence that Mirro was involved with drugs?