Grand Ave in the Pre-Lombardo Era

[Antiliar]

Absolutely. That's what I've been after the whole time. The truth about what really happened in history, not how it makes me feel or what narrative I want to push. What first got me interested in researching organized crime was a book called "Bloodletters and Badmen" by Jay Robert Nash. The connections between the organized crime figures interested me. So did the structure that they had compared to ordinary street gangs and serial killers. Another factor was the book was full of errors based on sloppy research and jumping to conclusions based on shoddy evidence. Fischer would have had a field day with that book. For me, the errors became a challenge and a mystery to solve. As time passed more information has become accessible that I would have ever dreamed of when I started. I used to spend hours and hours copying New York Times microfilms after having to go back and forth to the New York Times Index books. Now the Times is online and easily searchable, along with hundreds of other newspapers, thousands of books, magazines, and millions of government documents.

Have your read the review by Paul Conklin? He hated the book, so much that it's funny. It's overkill. https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2504801.pdf?seq=1

[PolackTony]

I'm not sure when Accardo was promoted to capo of the old Grand Avenue crew (its location before relocating under Cerone).

This has been a great discussion. Antilliar references the "old Grand Avenue crew" which points to what motivated the original post here: whether the Grand Ave neighborhood was home to a distinct power base or crew prior to the Lombardo regime, especially given the strong personal ties of important figures like Capezio, Accardo, Cerone (I think?) and later DiFronzo to the neighborhood. Was it the case that Capezio had a crew based on Grand Ave early on, which under Accardo became the modern Elmwood Park crew? If so, did Elmwood affiliated guys continue to have interests or rackets in the neighborhood later on?

Related to this, from my reading posters in this forum over the years seem to have converged on an understanding of the Outfit in the past as structured around four broad factions: West, South, North, the Heights. These factions were not simply geographic designations but also reflected particular structures of power and authority. We know that the modern Grand Ave Crew had its origins in the Melrose Park crew of the old Westside faction. Where would we place the old Grand Ave Crew that Antilliar mentions within this framework? What relationship did Capezio and Accardo have to the old Westside power base? And where would we then place the Elmwood Park crew after that emerged as a distinct power base? Given the often cited tensions between Ricca and Accardo, and Giancana and Cerone, my understanding is that Elmwood was its own center of power at least back to the 60s. If so, does Elmwood warrant being considered a separate faction front he four typically identified?

[PolackTony]

Absolutely. That's what I've been after the whole time. The truth about what really happened in history, not how it makes me feel or what narrative I want to push. What first got me interested in researching organized crime was a book called "Bloodletters and Badmen" by Jay Robert Nash. The connections between the organized crime figures interested me. So did the structure that they had compared to ordinary street gangs and serial killers. Another factor was the book was full of errors based on sloppy research and jumping to conclusions based on shoddy evidence. Fischer would have had a field day with that book. For me, the errors became a challenge and a mystery to solve. As time passed more information has become accessible that I would have ever dreamed of when I started. I used to spend hours and hours copying New York Times microfilms after having to go back and forth to the New York Times Index books. Now the Times is online and easily searchable, along with hundreds of other newspapers, thousands of books, magazines, and millions of government documents.

Thanks for sharing, well put. I think a central problem for historiography today is widespread theoretic and analytic bankruptcy in the context of an explosion in access to sources and evidence. One of Fischer's main points is that historiams create "useful knowledge" in terms of explanations of the past. As academic history over the decades has increasingly turned into a jargon laden and overly politicized echo chamber, it has become further marginalized from public discourse and essentially useless for many of those interested in better understanding the past rather than arguing over obscurantist academic projects. But the rise of new media of communications and ready access to sources also means that researchers outside of academia can now much more readily engage in history and share their accounts.

[Confederate]

Related to this, from my reading posters in this forum over the years seem to have converged on an understanding of the Outfit in the past as structured around four broad factions: West, South, North, the Heights. These factions were not simply geographic designations but also reflected particular structures of power and authority. We know that the modern Grand Ave Crew had its origins in the Melrose Park crew of the old Westside faction. Where would we place the old Grand Ave Crew that Antilliar mentions within this framework? What relationship did Capezio and Accardo have to the old Westside power base? And where would we then place the Elmwood Park crew after that emerged as a distinct power base? Given the often cited tensions between Ricca and Accardo, and Giancana and Cerone, my understanding is that Elmwood was its own center of power at least back to the 60s. If so, does Elmwood warrant being considered a separate faction front he four typically identified?

Grand Avenue & Elmwood Park would have been under the "West". Accardo, Cerone, DiFronzo Brothers, Gagliano all were born & raised in that Grand Avenue area. Elmwood Park became the epicenter of a crew on the West side when Cerone moved there. It could have been around 1950 or so. I would have to look it up again.

[Antiliar]

This has been a great discussion. Antilliar references the "old Grand Avenue crew" which points to what motivated the original post here: whether the Grand Ave neighborhood was home to a distinct power base or crew prior to the Lombardo regime, especially given the strong personal ties of important figures like Capezio, Accardo, Cerone (I think?) and later DiFronzo to the neighborhood. Was it the case that Capezio had a crew based on Grand Ave early on, which under Accardo became the modern Elmwood Park crew? If so, did Elmwood affiliated guys continue to have interests or rackets in the neighborhood later on?

Related to this, from my reading posters in this forum over the years seem to have converged on an understanding of the Outfit in the past as structured around four broad factions: West, South, North, the Heights. These factions were not simply geographic designations but also reflected particular structures of power and authority. We know that the modern Grand Ave Crew had its origins in the Melrose Park crew of the old Westside faction. Where would we place the old Grand Ave Crew that Antilliar mentions within this framework? What relationship did Capezio and Accardo have to the old Westside power base? And where would we then place the Elmwood Park crew after that emerged as a distinct power base? Given the often cited tensions between Ricca and Accardo, and Giancana and Cerone, my understanding is that Elmwood was its own center of power at least back to the 60s. If so, does Elmwood warrant being considered a separate faction front he four typically identified?

The Elmwood Park crew goes back to the Capone era - but not always in Elmwood Park. Villian has a different theory of the Outfit crews. Mine is that the crews were stable until the 1990s when they started shutting down. Here the different crews with some of their locations and leaders. INFORMATION INCOMPLETE. Just a summary.

Battaglia crew (Chicago, Melrose Park, Stone Park, etc): Headed by Rocco DeGrazia until he was demoted, later it was headed by Sam Battaglia, Felix Alderisio (acting), Joe Lombardo, Louis Eboli, Anthony Centracchio, Albie Vena. Now known as the Grand Avenue crew.

Cerone crew (Elmwood Park, parts of Melrose Park, formerly in Grand Avenue): Headed by Accardo, then Capezio, then relocated under Cerone. Later Joe Gagliano, John DiFronzo, Lee Magnafichi, and Joe Andriacchi.

Buccieri crew (Taylor Street, Cicero): Fiore Buccieri, Turk Torello, Joe Ferriola, Rocky Infelice, John Monteleone, Mike Sarno

Chicago Heights: Dominic Roberto, Jimmy Emery, Frank La Porte, Albert Tocco, Al Pilotto

Chinatown (South Side/ 26th Street): Bruno Roti, Toots Caruso, Angelo La Pietra, Jimmy La Pietra, John Monteleone, Frank Caruso

Willie Daddono crew: Willie Potatoes Daddono, Chuck Nicoletti, Black Joe Amato

Northside crew (Rush Street area): Ross Prio, Dominic DiBella, Vincent Solano

Aiuppa crew (Melrose Park/Cicero): Joe Aiuppa, Sam Carlisi, Al Tornabene, Jimmy Marcello, Tony Zizzo

"Connection Guys" crew: Jack Guzik, Murray Humphreys, Gus Alex

Today the only crews are (probably) the Grand Avenue (Battaglia-Lombardo-Vena) crew, the Buccieri crew, and *possibly* Chinatown. Or it could be totally dead.

[Confederate]

This has been a great discussion. Antilliar references the "old Grand Avenue crew" which points to what motivated the original post here: whether the Grand Ave neighborhood was home to a distinct power base or crew prior to the Lombardo regime, especially given the strong personal ties of important figures like Capezio, Accardo, Cerone (I think?) and later DiFronzo to the neighborhood. Was it the case that Capezio had a crew based on Grand Ave early on, which under Accardo became the modern Elmwood Park crew? If so, did Elmwood affiliated guys continue to have interests or rackets in the neighborhood later on?

Related to this, from my reading posters in this forum over the years seem to have converged on an understanding of the Outfit in the past as structured around four broad factions: West, South, North, the Heights. These factions were not simply geographic designations but also reflected particular structures of power and authority. We know that the modern Grand Ave Crew had its origins in the Melrose Park crew of the old Westside faction. Where would we place the old Grand Ave Crew that Antilliar mentions within this framework? What relationship did Capezio and Accardo have to the old Westside power base? And where would we then place the Elmwood Park crew after that emerged as a distinct power base? Given the often cited tensions between Ricca and Accardo, and Giancana and Cerone, my understanding is that Elmwood was its own center of power at least back to the 60s. If so, does Elmwood warrant being considered a separate faction front he four typically identified?

The Elmwood Park crew goes back to the Capone era - but not always in Elmwood Park. Villian has a different theory of the Outfit crews. Mine is that the crews were stable until the 1990s when they started shutting down. Here the different crews with some of their locations and leaders. INFORMATION INCOMPLETE. Just a summary.

Battaglia crew (Chicago, Melrose Park, Stone Park, etc): Headed by Rocco DeGrazia until he was demoted, later it was headed by Sam Battaglia, Felix Alderisio (acting), Joe Lombardo, Louis Eboli, Anthony Centracchio, Albie Vena. Now known as the Grand Avenue crew.

Cerone crew (Elmwood Park, parts of Melrose Park, formerly in Grand Avenue): Headed by Accardo, then Capezio, then relocated under Cerone. Later Joe Gagliano, John DiFronzo, Lee Magnafichi, and Joe Andriacchi.

Buccieri crew (Taylor Street, Cicero): Fiore Buccieri, Turk Torello, Joe Ferriola, Rocky Infelice, John Monteleone, Mike Sarno

Chicago Heights: Dominic Roberto, Jimmy Emery, Frank La Porte, Albert Tocco, Al Pilotto

Chinatown (South Side/ 26th Street): Bruno Roti, Toots Caruso, Angelo La Pietra, Jimmy La Pietra, John Monteleone, Frank Caruso

Willie Daddono crew: Willie Potatoes Daddono, Chuck Nicoletti, Black Joe Amato

Northside crew (Rush Street area): Ross Prio, Dominic DiBella, Vincent Solano

Aiuppa crew (Melrose Park/Cicero): Joe Aiuppa, Sam Carlisi, Al Tornabene, Jimmy Marcello, Tony Zizzo

"Connection Guys" crew: Jack Guzik, Murray Humphreys, Gus Alex

Today the only crews are (probably) the Grand Avenue (Battaglia-Lombardo-Vena) crew, the Buccieri crew, and *possibly* Chinatown. Or it could be totally dead.

Let's see how close this lines up with the "Last Supper Picture" taken in 1976:

Auippa: (We could say represented Melrose Park)
Cerone: (We could say represented Elmwood Park)
Lombardo: Grand Avenue
Torello: Cicero
Solano: North Side
Pilotto: Chicago Heights
Amato: McHenry County

That's 7 Crews. The other 3 guys in the picture were:
Accardo: Advisor
DiBella: Retiring from the North because he was dying of cancer.
DiVarco: Possibly there as the #2 to Solano?

Very close. The only other prominent guy not in the picture was LaPietra. It could be argued that Torello was over Cicero & 26th & LaPietra was his #2 in that group. Your opinion?

[Antiliar]

I think LaPietra moved back to his old Chinatown neighborhood in 1977, so he was probably still with Torello in 1976. Caruso was in poor health and Catuara was semi-retired. So I think Caruso was too ill to attend.

[Villain]

I agree with Antiliar on most of the successions although as he already said, i have different opinions regarding some crews and how they were formed and i also believe that every faction had a top representative, something like a board of directors placed between the top admin and the rest of the capos, but besides that we are on the same page, meaning there arent too many differences in our research such as Nicoletti and stuff

I would also like to add that some crews remained in a close connection for a very long time periods, like for example when Battaglia and Alderisio were out of the way, Lombardo became closely associated with the EP crew. Old man Cullotta says that Lombardo came under old time EP member John DeBiase but i find that suspicious since most of the leads point to Battaglia, Pranno and Alderisio. Who knows, maybe Cullotta saw Lombardo being closely associated with some of the old time EP members in later years and created his own opinion?! Or maybe they all operated as a whole faction, mean the West Side mob?

Besides that, Lombardos crew also very often used one of Cerones restaurants as their headquarters and i also think that Lombardo and Andriacchi were related through marriage and they both shared interests on the North Side. Even today some sources say that Vena and Dote are close associates.

Same story goes for the Ferriola and LaPietra crews, meaning they were products of the same Buccieri/Torello group.

In addition, i also think Ralph Capone was a capo before Aiuppa, and D'Andrea before Roti...DeGeorge before Prio? DeGeorge is a little bit complicated since there were other capos who reported or worked under him at the time...in fact its not just DeGeorge since we also have other guys like Battaglia or Emery/LaPorte in the same exact situation...

[Antiliar]

As I wrote above "INFORMATION INCOMPLETE. Just a summary." I didn't write all the known capos nor all the possible ones, just what popped into my head while writing late at night.

"Same story goes for the Ferriola and LaPietra crews, meaning they were products of the same Buccieri/Torello group. In addition, i also think Ralph Capone was a capo before Aiuppa, and D'Andrea before Roti...DeGeorge before Prio?"
I agree.

[Villain]

As I wrote above "INFORMATION INCOMPLETE. Just a summary." I didn't write all the known capos nor all the possible ones, just what popped into my head while writing late at night.

"Same story goes for the Ferriola and LaPietra crews, meaning they were products of the same Buccieri/Torello group. In addition, i also think Ralph Capone was a capo before Aiuppa, and D'Andrea before Roti...DeGeorge before Prio?"
I agree.

Thanks and sorry i just wanted to add my two cents...btw whats your final opinion on Catuara....Buccieri or Chicago Heights?

[PolackTony]

Besides that, Lombardos crew also very often used one of Cerones restaurants as their headquarters and i also think that Lombardo and Andriacchi were related through marriage and they both shared interests on the North Side. Even today some sources say that Vena and Dote are close associates.

Correct, Andriacchi was Joey’s wife Marion’s cousin. The Nigro, Spina, Andriacchi, and Roti were all related/intermarried. Marion’s extended family occupied the apartments in Lombardo’s building on Ohio st. They likely still do, haven’t noticed it full of gentrifier types as of recently.

[Villain]

Besides that, Lombardos crew also very often used one of Cerones restaurants as their headquarters and i also think that Lombardo and Andriacchi were related through marriage and they both shared interests on the North Side. Even today some sources say that Vena and Dote are close associates.

Correct, Andriacchi was Joey’s wife Marion’s cousin. The Nigro, Spina, Andriacchi, and Roti were all related/intermarried. Marion’s extended family occupied the apartments in Lombardo’s building on Ohio st. They likely still do, haven’t noticed it full of gentrifier types as of recently.

Thanks for the confirmation

[Antiliar]

Chinatown. That's based on his file and Caruso's file.

[Confederate]

This has been a great discussion. Antilliar references the "old Grand Avenue crew" which points to what motivated the original post here: whether the Grand Ave neighborhood was home to a distinct power base or crew prior to the Lombardo regime, especially given the strong personal ties of important figures like Capezio, Accardo, Cerone (I think?) and later DiFronzo to the neighborhood. Was it the case that Capezio had a crew based on Grand Ave early on, which under Accardo became the modern Elmwood Park crew? If so, did Elmwood affiliated guys continue to have interests or rackets in the neighborhood later on?

Related to this, from my reading posters in this forum over the years seem to have converged on an understanding of the Outfit in the past as structured around four broad factions: West, South, North, the Heights. These factions were not simply geographic designations but also reflected particular structures of power and authority. We know that the modern Grand Ave Crew had its origins in the Melrose Park crew of the old Westside faction. Where would we place the old Grand Ave Crew that Antilliar mentions within this framework? What relationship did Capezio and Accardo have to the old Westside power base? And where would we then place the Elmwood Park crew after that emerged as a distinct power base? Given the often cited tensions between Ricca and Accardo, and Giancana and Cerone, my understanding is that Elmwood was its own center of power at least back to the 60s. If so, does Elmwood warrant being considered a separate faction front he four typically identified?

The Elmwood Park crew goes back to the Capone era - but not always in Elmwood Park. Villian has a different theory of the Outfit crews. Mine is that the crews were stable until the 1990s when they started shutting down. Here the different crews with some of their locations and leaders. INFORMATION INCOMPLETE. Just a summary.

Battaglia crew (Chicago, Melrose Park, Stone Park, etc): Headed by Rocco DeGrazia until he was demoted, later it was headed by Sam Battaglia, Felix Alderisio (acting), Joe Lombardo, Louis Eboli, Anthony Centracchio, Albie Vena. Now known as the Grand Avenue crew.

Cerone crew (Elmwood Park, parts of Melrose Park, formerly in Grand Avenue): Headed by Accardo, then Capezio, then relocated under Cerone. Later Joe Gagliano, John DiFronzo, Lee Magnafichi, and Joe Andriacchi.

Buccieri crew (Taylor Street, Cicero): Fiore Buccieri, Turk Torello, Joe Ferriola, Rocky Infelice, John Monteleone, Mike Sarno

Chicago Heights: Dominic Roberto, Jimmy Emery, Frank La Porte, Albert Tocco, Al Pilotto

Chinatown (South Side/ 26th Street): Bruno Roti, Toots Caruso, Angelo La Pietra, Jimmy La Pietra, John Monteleone, Frank Caruso

Willie Daddono crew: Willie Potatoes Daddono, Chuck Nicoletti, Black Joe Amato

Northside crew (Rush Street area): Ross Prio, Dominic DiBella, Vincent Solano

Aiuppa crew (Melrose Park/Cicero): Joe Aiuppa, Sam Carlisi, Al Tornabene, Jimmy Marcello, Tony Zizzo

"Connection Guys" crew: Jack Guzik, Murray Humphreys, Gus Alex

Today the only crews are (probably) the Grand Avenue (Battaglia-Lombardo-Vena) crew, the Buccieri crew, and *possibly* Chinatown. Or it could be totally dead.

Let's see how close this lines up with the "Last Supper Picture" taken in 1976:

Auippa: (We could say represented Melrose Park)
Cerone: (We could say represented Elmwood Park)
Lombardo: Grand Avenue
Torello: Cicero
Solano: North Side
Pilotto: Chicago Heights
Amato: McHenry County

That's 7 Crews. The other 3 guys in the picture were:
Accardo: Advisor
DiBella: Retiring from the North because he was dying of cancer.
DiVarco: Possibly there as the #2 to Solano?

Very close. The only other prominent guy not in the picture was LaPietra. It could be argued that Torello was over Cicero & 26th & LaPietra was his #2 in that group. Your opinion?

You have John Monteleone listed twice as a Crew Boss. Once with the Buccieri Crew (Cicero) & the other with the 26th St. Crew? I thought Monteleone was only with the Cicero Group. Did you list him twice on purpose?

[Antiliar]

Yes, he was put in charge of Cicero after Infelice died, and was already boss of Chinatown.