FBI not knowing Nick calabrese commited all those murders

[BarrettM]

Was Nick Calabrese a made guy?

[Snakes]

Was Nick Calabrese a made guy?

Yes

[Confederate]

I assume "solved" means it ended in some kind of conviction. It could also mean they are saying the murder was solved after the guilty person who committed the crime was dead? Anyway, as I stated previously, "solving" the case in a court of law & "knowing information about it" are two different things that I'm sure everyone would agree. The Feds probably knew a lot of information about many of those murders but didn't have enough to go to court & convict someone. Roemer even tried to protect some of his informants from incarceration for some of their crimes committed. For example, he was very protective of Blasi. Doesn't mean he didn't know or strongly suspect crimes Blasi had committed.

[Snakes]

Solved generally means someone was convicted of the case and sentenced. Cleared or closed usually means the case has been solved or that they are confident enough to take it off the books because their main suspect is dead or already serving life or a lengthy sentence and they feel like going to court would be unnecessary. But the definition can vary depending on the law enforcement agency and their respective internal definitions and work flow.

[Pete]

Knowing who commited the murder and having suspects vs not even being on the map.(example: who killed carmime galante, st valentines massacre, paul castellano) my point being is he wasnt even on the fed radar. Usually you have an idea, but not the evidence to convict or no one rolled yet etc. Another example, everyone knows a few murders that Harry Aleman did, but couldnt prove them all. How is that no one knew? Like he was BTK or something.
I am talking about the government not knowing that this guy was not even a suspect in all this murders all this time. What made he go u noticed?
I guess my logic is built shit. Idk what im trying to say.

How do you know the Feds never suspected him of anything? Just because he wasn't charged with being involved in any murders in the past doesn't mean he was never a suspect.

B/C the feds admitted as much.

What did they admit & where did they admit it?

The FBI and the rest of the govt involved in the case said they had no idea nick calabrese was a hitman until he came forward. Its there and others on here will say as much. One who can research better than I can find it. But, yeah.

Okay, assuming that's what the Feds said about it, still doesn't change anything. It's not like Nick Calabrese got away with murder. They "eventually" got him anyway. What has improved is the percentage of knowledge the Feds have about the mob. In 1985, which was 35 years ago, maybe the Feds knew 75% in advance, waited unil they could prove it in Court, & found out the other 25% later. Now, in 2020, they know 95% in advance, wait until they can prove it in Court, & find out the other 5% later. They still know 10 times more than any bullshit "street guy" gossip on this Forum. That's the point.

Confederate, are you of the opinion that the feds have an idea who whacked Ronnie Jarrett and Tony Zizzo or do you feel that this info will come out in the future with another Outfit cooperator?

I don't know but I would be very surprised if the Feds don't already have 95% of all the info about it. Having a very strong knowledge about something & then being able to "prove" it in a court of law are two different things.

I agree that they know the players. Who actually did the hit is different. For instance 2 days before the spilotros were whacked they had ferriola, carlisi, Infelice, and marcello meeting in a parking lot. They knew those guys most likely orchestrated but didn’t know who hit them. Zizzo was prob same thing. They think Joey a and vena set it up with sarno. Who actually carried it out is anyone’s guess. Supposedly if Scott is to be believed tony calabrese hit Jarrett but they feds have known for years Johnny apes ordered it. Same thing with all the nick calabrese hits. They knew who ordered it who did it is much harder to figure out

[Pete]

Solved generally means someone was convicted of the case and sentenced. Cleared or closed usually means the case has been solved or that they are confident enough to take it off the books because their main suspect is dead or already serving life or a lengthy sentence and they feel like going to court would be unnecessary. But the definition can vary depending on the law enforcement agency and their respective internal definitions and work flow.

Do you recall how many hits they say he closed? I thought it was 20 something but I can’t remember now. Supposedly his info helped close the giancana hit

[newera_212]

Is it true that they (chicago pd, feds etc) had no idea Nick Calabrese commited all those murders unt he fessed up?
If so, how in the freak did they not know? I mean he was in like double digit territory and still not even the slighest clue?

I finally found a stat I was looking for: prior to Nick Calabrese's cooperation, only 14 of 1,111 murders attributed to Chicago mob activity had been solved.

im currently re-reading the Family Secrets book right now (the one about the trial, not the one from Calabrese Jr.) and saw this little stat in there and i thought it was insane. i read the book before and it didn't register with me back then how crazy that was.

one thing i thought interesting about chicago was the hits and how meticulously planned they were, and also how costly they could be in terms of time and money. maybe it was just indicative of the chinatown crew ...or even just a handful of guys from the chinatown crew in that select point in time, and not of the outfit as a whole, but some of the hits described in the Family Secrets book were pretty elaborate

conversely another thing i found interesting about Chicago were the number of people, and types of people, doing hits. they know way more than me on the issue, they got it all figured out...but something about a half dozen guys, included bosses, taking part in killing one person seems pretty reckless. again, im pushing threw this Family Secrets book and theres a few times LaPietra is out there on a mission with them lmao.

i love learning more about chicago. its been better to read about them ever since i stopped trying to put them in a “new york box” and make sense of their organization under the template of how things are done in NY. it took Culotta breaking it down in an interview for me to get it, but it seems night and day now compared to nyc.

[Confederate]

Is it true that they (chicago pd, feds etc) had no idea Nick Calabrese commited all those murders unt he fessed up?
If so, how in the freak did they not know? I mean he was in like double digit territory and still not even the slighest clue?

I finally found a stat I was looking for: prior to Nick Calabrese's cooperation, only 14 of 1,111 murders attributed to Chicago mob activity had been solved.

im currently re-reading the Family Secrets book right now (the one about the trial, not the one from Calabrese Jr.) and saw this little stat in there and i thought it was insane. i read the book before and it didn't register with me back then how crazy that was.

one thing i thought interesting about chicago was the hits and how meticulously planned they were, and also how costly they could be in terms of time and money. maybe it was just indicative of the chinatown crew ...or even just a handful of guys from the chinatown crew in that select point in time, and not of the outfit as a whole, but some of the hits described in the Family Secrets book were pretty elaborate

conversely another thing i found interesting about Chicago were the number of people, and types of people, doing hits. they know way more than me on the issue, they got it all figured out...but something about a half dozen guys, included bosses, taking part in killing one person seems pretty reckless. again, im pushing threw this Family Secrets book and theres a few times LaPietra is out there on a mission with them lmao.

i love learning more about chicago. its been better to read about them ever since i stopped trying to put them in a “new york box” and make sense of their organization under the template of how things are done in NY. it took Culotta breaking it down in an interview for me to get it, but it seems night and day now compared to nyc.

Good insight & you are correct about Chicago. They started out as a "Syndicate" & then simply consumed what was left of the "Mafia" in Chicago.
They were structured a bit differently & used different terminology & were more Horizontal than. N.Y.
As far as the murders from years ago, the Feds know way more about the Outfit in 2020 than in 1980 which was 40 years ago. Also, a lot of those guys in Chicago were sadistic. Like I said in another thread, quite a few of those guys actually "enjoyed" murdering someone. The Spilotro Brothers hit in 1986 was like a big homecoming party with the prize being the enjoyment of murder. Another was the Action Jackson hit where they hung him on a meat hook & tortured him with a cattle prod for a few days. Psychopaths.

[Pete]

Is it true that they (chicago pd, feds etc) had no idea Nick Calabrese commited all those murders unt he fessed up?
If so, how in the freak did they not know? I mean he was in like double digit territory and still not even the slighest clue?

I finally found a stat I was looking for: prior to Nick Calabrese's cooperation, only 14 of 1,111 murders attributed to Chicago mob activity had been solved.

im currently re-reading the Family Secrets book right now (the one about the trial, not the one from Calabrese Jr.) and saw this little stat in there and i thought it was insane. i read the book before and it didn't register with me back then how crazy that was.

one thing i thought interesting about chicago was the hits and how meticulously planned they were, and also how costly they could be in terms of time and money. maybe it was just indicative of the chinatown crew ...or even just a handful of guys from the chinatown crew in that select point in time, and not of the outfit as a whole, but some of the hits described in the Family Secrets book were pretty elaborate

conversely another thing i found interesting about Chicago were the number of people, and types of people, doing hits. they know way more than me on the issue, they got it all figured out...but something about a half dozen guys, included bosses, taking part in killing one person seems pretty reckless. again, im pushing threw this Family Secrets book and theres a few times LaPietra is out there on a mission with them lmao.

i love learning more about chicago. its been better to read about them ever since i stopped trying to put them in a “new york box” and make sense of their organization under the template of how things are done in NY. it took Culotta breaking it down in an interview for me to get it, but it seems night and day now compared to nyc.

One of my favorites was Angelo lapietra personally bombing horwaths restaurant in the 80’s when he was in his mid 60’s. That would be unheard of in another family someone that high up bombing a restaurant at that age

[Pete]

Another good one is Sam carlisi at 67 years old beating Nicholas D’Andrea to death with the but of a shotgun while questioning him about the attempted hit on al pilotto

[Dwalin2014]

One of my favorites was Angelo lapietra personally bombing horwaths restaurant in the 80’s when he was in his mid 60’s. That would be unheard of in another family someone that high up bombing a restaurant at that age

Another good one is Sam carlisi at 67 years old beating Nicholas D’Andrea to death with the but of a shotgun while questioning him about the attempted hit on al pilotto

These examples remind me of those three 70-year-old (more or less) Detroit gangsters who tried to personally whack Ernie Kanakis in 1976

[newera_212]

Is it true that they (chicago pd, feds etc) had no idea Nick Calabrese commited all those murders unt he fessed up?
If so, how in the freak did they not know? I mean he was in like double digit territory and still not even the slighest clue?

I finally found a stat I was looking for: prior to Nick Calabrese's cooperation, only 14 of 1,111 murders attributed to Chicago mob activity had been solved.

im currently re-reading the Family Secrets book right now (the one about the trial, not the one from Calabrese Jr.) and saw this little stat in there and i thought it was insane. i read the book before and it didn't register with me back then how crazy that was.

one thing i thought interesting about chicago was the hits and how meticulously planned they were, and also how costly they could be in terms of time and money. maybe it was just indicative of the chinatown crew ...or even just a handful of guys from the chinatown crew in that select point in time, and not of the outfit as a whole, but some of the hits described in the Family Secrets book were pretty elaborate

conversely another thing i found interesting about Chicago were the number of people, and types of people, doing hits. they know way more than me on the issue, they got it all figured out...but something about a half dozen guys, included bosses, taking part in killing one person seems pretty reckless. again, im pushing threw this Family Secrets book and theres a few times LaPietra is out there on a mission with them lmao.

i love learning more about chicago. its been better to read about them ever since i stopped trying to put them in a “new york box” and make sense of their organization under the template of how things are done in NY. it took Culotta breaking it down in an interview for me to get it, but it seems night and day now compared to nyc.

One of my favorites was Angelo lapietra personally bombing horwaths restaurant in the 80’s when he was in his mid 60’s. That would be unheard of in another family someone that high up bombing a restaurant at that age

All of the capos or bosses or whatever you want to call them seemed treacherous. All of them. Back to the NY comparison, it doesn't seem like you'll see a guy in Chicago make it to that Capo or Street Boss level just on being an earner, or being popular, or having a racket that the admin bosses want to keep close. All of them, maybe even all of the "made" outfit guys in general, seemed like mean treacherous fucks.

Another funny LaPietra bit im finding was when a personal friend of the Calabreses fucked up and needed to get hit. Angelo told Frank Senior if he had any reservations on killing a friend, he could sacrifice himself instead lmao

[Pete]

Is it true that they (chicago pd, feds etc) had no idea Nick Calabrese commited all those murders unt he fessed up?
If so, how in the freak did they not know? I mean he was in like double digit territory and still not even the slighest clue?

I finally found a stat I was looking for: prior to Nick Calabrese's cooperation, only 14 of 1,111 murders attributed to Chicago mob activity had been solved.

im currently re-reading the Family Secrets book right now (the one about the trial, not the one from Calabrese Jr.) and saw this little stat in there and i thought it was insane. i read the book before and it didn't register with me back then how crazy that was.

one thing i thought interesting about chicago was the hits and how meticulously planned they were, and also how costly they could be in terms of time and money. maybe it was just indicative of the chinatown crew ...or even just a handful of guys from the chinatown crew in that select point in time, and not of the outfit as a whole, but some of the hits described in the Family Secrets book were pretty elaborate

conversely another thing i found interesting about Chicago were the number of people, and types of people, doing hits. they know way more than me on the issue, they got it all figured out...but something about a half dozen guys, included bosses, taking part in killing one person seems pretty reckless. again, im pushing threw this Family Secrets book and theres a few times LaPietra is out there on a mission with them lmao.

i love learning more about chicago. its been better to read about them ever since i stopped trying to put them in a “new york box” and make sense of their organization under the template of how things are done in NY. it took Culotta breaking it down in an interview for me to get it, but it seems night and day now compared to nyc.

One of my favorites was Angelo lapietra personally bombing horwaths restaurant in the 80’s when he was in his mid 60’s. That would be unheard of in another family someone that high up bombing a restaurant at that age

All of the capos or bosses or whatever you want to call them seemed treacherous. All of them. Back to the NY comparison, it doesn't seem like you'll see a guy in Chicago make it to that Capo or Street Boss level just on being an earner, or being popular, or having a racket that the admin bosses want to keep close. All of them, maybe even all of the "made" outfit guys in general, seemed like mean treacherous fucks.

Another funny LaPietra bit im finding was when a personal friend of the Calabreses fucked up and needed to get hit. Angelo told Frank Senior if he had any reservations on killing a friend, he could sacrifice himself instead lmao

Yes that was Tony borsellino. Frank sr talked about that basically butchie petrocelli and Tony bors had a beef and butchie had joe ferriola ear and got permission to clip him. Frank went to Angelo to try and save him and he said the only way you can save him is if you take his place. They didn’t fuck around and lapietra was especially hardcore. He told them if anyone froze one a bit they had permission to “flatten them, leave them there” and diforti actually froze one time and frank sr thought less of Nick because he didn’t whack diforti as well. When nick hit fecarotta he was panicked when fecarotta got away because If you fail on a hit you go too. That’s why nick ended up clipping fecarotta in front of a bingo hall with witnesses everywhere he knew if he failed he was next. Even Lombardo told dr pat spilotro in regards to his brothers look if you get an order you follow it otherwise you go too

[Pete]

Another good lapietra story he was like 70 at this point they were having trouble hitting someone and he said the old man (aiuppa) wants this done If you guys can’t do it I’ll do it. Literally involved in numerous hits in his 60’s and 70’s not necessarily doing it but being on the scene or monitoring the cops etc these guys even in old age would still clip someone in a split second If they had to. He was 60 and walked butchie petrocelli into the house where frank calabrese immediately whacked him. That’s why I’ve said so many times chicago was different you’d never have someone that high up on the site of a hit

[newera_212]

Solved generally means someone was convicted of the case and sentenced. Cleared or closed usually means the case has been solved or that they are confident enough to take it off the books because their main suspect is dead or already serving life or a lengthy sentence and they feel like going to court would be unnecessary. But the definition can vary depending on the law enforcement agency and their respective internal definitions and work flow.

Do you recall how many hits they say he closed? I thought it was 20 something but I can’t remember now. Supposedly his info helped close the giancana hit

He told the Feds about 16 that he personally planned or was involved with, and put another 20 on their radar, but those 20 were all told to him either first or second hand. Outside of the ones that Frank Senior and Marcello were convicted of (including the ones they were jointly involved with, Spilotros and D'Andrea) there was just the Daniel Seifert one with Lombardo.. Those additional 20 that he told the Feds about, who knows what happened with those.

The book -made it seem- like they (The Feds) had no idea of Nick C's involvements in any hits except for Fecarotta