Understanding Chicago

[B.]

Awesome find on the Coppola report. Coppola had been a captain for almost 30 years by that point and his crew has produced many of the top family leaders since then, so Fischetti's concerns make sense. Always interested in hearing about the interactions between Chicago and other families.

The part about Max Eder stands out -- Coppola was forcing a Chicago member to meet with a Jewish associate instead of Coppola himself and Chicago took issue with it. It may have had more to do with Eder personally than his non-member status and it speaks for itself that Fischetti assaulted him in front of Coppola. Interesting either way that Coppola would designate Eder as the go-between with a member of another family, especially Chicago, and the other member didn't want to go through Eder.

[Frank]

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it

The Senior Advisor position sometimes having 2 or 3 guys at the same time is eyeopening and could explain the clusterfuck of top guys in certain times. Also the Territorial Boss could at times be misconstrued as the Boss or The Man. I think your opinion on Ferriola being a Territorial Boss over Tocco is about the best explaination of what position he held.

[Villain]

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it

The Senior Advisor position sometimes having 2 or 3 guys at the same time is eyeopening and could explain the clusterfuck of top guys in certain times. Also the Territorial Boss could at times be misconstrued as the Boss or The Man. I think your opinion on Ferriola being a Territorial Boss over Tocco is about the best explaination of what position he held.

Thanks

[Villain]

Awesome find on the Coppola report. Coppola had been a captain for almost 30 years by that point and his crew has produced many of the top family leaders since then, so Fischetti's concerns make sense. Always interested in hearing about the interactions between Chicago and other families.

The part about Max Eder stands out -- Coppola was forcing a Chicago member to meet with a Jewish associate instead of Coppola himself and Chicago took issue with it. It may have had more to do with Eder personally than his non-member status and it speaks for itself that Fischetti assaulted him in front of Coppola. Interesting either way that Coppola would designate Eder as the go-between with a member of another family, especially Chicago, and the other member didn't want to go through Eder.

Well except for Eder, all of them were made guys so Joe Fish only wanted a direct connection. This situation also shows Giancanas importance at the time, I mean tge guy called for a meeting where he was located at the time, and few of the most powerful faces in NY came down there. We dont know all the details, meaning there were probably other subjects on that same meeting, but it seems that Giancana had the last word regarding that particular situation.

Also heres another interesting and more detailed situation...i think i previouy mentioned the problem which was created by one of Alexs associates Louis Tornabene with some guys on the east coast, and also other stuff...












Some additional info...

[Frank]

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it

The Senior Advisor position sometimes having 2 or 3 guys at the same time is eyeopening and could explain the clusterfuck of top guys in certain times. Also the Territorial Boss could at times be misconstrued as the Boss or The Man. I think your opinion on Ferriola being a Territorial Boss over Tocco is about the best explaination of what position he held.

Thanks

Is there time periods and names where there was more than one Sr Advisor. I would guess Guzik and Humphries time period

[Villain]

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it

The Senior Advisor position sometimes having 2 or 3 guys at the same time is eyeopening and could explain the clusterfuck of top guys in certain times. Also the Territorial Boss could at times be misconstrued as the Boss or The Man. I think your opinion on Ferriola being a Territorial Boss over Tocco is about the best explaination of what position he held.

Thanks

Is there time periods and names where there was more than one Sr Advisor. I would guess Guzik and Humphries time period

Yeah maybe during late 40s and first half of the 50s, we have Charlie Fisch died in 1951, Campagna died in 55, Guzik died in 56. I believe Humphreys shared the position together with Accardo during the Giancana era or from 57 until 64

[Frank]

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it

The Senior Advisor position sometimes having 2 or 3 guys at the same time is eyeopening and could explain the clusterfuck of top guys in certain times. Also the Territorial Boss could at times be misconstrued as the Boss or The Man. I think your opinion on Ferriola being a Territorial Boss over Tocco is about the best explaination of what position he held.

Thanks

Is there time periods and names where there was more than one Sr Advisor. I would guess Guzik and Humphries time period

Yeah maybe during late 40s and first half of the 50s, we have Charlie Fisch died in 1951, Campagna died in 55, Guzik died in 56. I believe Humphreys shared the position together with Accardo during the Giancana era or from 57 until 64

Thanks

[Confederate]

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it

The Senior Advisor position sometimes having 2 or 3 guys at the same time is eyeopening and could explain the clusterfuck of top guys in certain times. Also the Territorial Boss could at times be misconstrued as the Boss or The Man. I think your opinion on Ferriola being a Territorial Boss over Tocco is about the best explaination of what position he held.

Thanks

Is there time periods and names where there was more than one Sr Advisor. I would guess Guzik and Humphries time period

Yeah maybe during late 40s and first half of the 50s, we have Charlie Fisch died in 1951, Campagna died in 55, Guzik died in 56. I believe Humphreys shared the position together with Accardo during the Giancana era or from 57 until 64

Matter of opinion in how you want to look at Ricca but maybe (Ricca/Accardo) in the LATE 60's & early 70's until Ricca's death.
Matter of opinion in how you want to look at Accardo, but maybe (Accardo/Alex) in the late 70's though a lot of the 80's.
Lombardo & LaPietra in the late 90's.
DiFronzo & Andriacchi maybe during Sarno's reign if you don't think DiFronzo & Andriacchi had quit the Outfit?
DeLaurentis & D'Amico if you don't think DeLaurentis had quit the Outfit before D'Amico died?

Just suggestions for thought.

[Villain]

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it

The Senior Advisor position sometimes having 2 or 3 guys at the same time is eyeopening and could explain the clusterfuck of top guys in certain times. Also the Territorial Boss could at times be misconstrued as the Boss or The Man. I think your opinion on Ferriola being a Territorial Boss over Tocco is about the best explaination of what position he held.

Thanks

Is there time periods and names where there was more than one Sr Advisor. I would guess Guzik and Humphries time period

Yeah maybe during late 40s and first half of the 50s, we have Charlie Fisch died in 1951, Campagna died in 55, Guzik died in 56. I believe Humphreys shared the position together with Accardo during the Giancana era or from 57 until 64

Matter of opinion in how you want to look at Ricca but maybe (Ricca/Accardo) in the LATE 60's & early 70's until Ricca's death.
Matter of opinion in how you want to look at Accardo, but maybe (Accardo/Alex) in the late 70's though a lot of the 80's.
Lombardo & LaPietra in the late 90's.
DiFronzo & Andriacchi maybe during Sarno's reign if you don't think DiFronzo & Andriacchi had quit the Outfit?
DeLaurentis & D'Amico if you don't think DeLaurentis had quit the Outfit before D'Amico died?

Just suggestions for thought.

As I already said in one of my previous posts, I personally see 3 top guys...one was Ricca...followed by Accardo....and the last was DiFronzo. To have the power to close shop, and to create some type of semi-legit group that possibly exists even today...thats the power of a top boss...everyone else was an advisor, or boss or territorial boss or whatever...

When these guys were in trouble, the whole organization was on its feet...every time....thats how important those 3 guys were

[Confederate]

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it

The Senior Advisor position sometimes having 2 or 3 guys at the same time is eyeopening and could explain the clusterfuck of top guys in certain times. Also the Territorial Boss could at times be misconstrued as the Boss or The Man. I think your opinion on Ferriola being a Territorial Boss over Tocco is about the best explaination of what position he held.

Thanks

Is there time periods and names where there was more than one Sr Advisor. I would guess Guzik and Humphries time period

Yeah maybe during late 40s and first half of the 50s, we have Charlie Fisch died in 1951, Campagna died in 55, Guzik died in 56. I believe Humphreys shared the position together with Accardo during the Giancana era or from 57 until 64

Matter of opinion in how you want to look at Ricca but maybe (Ricca/Accardo) in the LATE 60's & early 70's until Ricca's death.
Matter of opinion in how you want to look at Accardo, but maybe (Accardo/Alex) in the late 70's though a lot of the 80's.
Lombardo & LaPietra in the late 90's.
DiFronzo & Andriacchi maybe during Sarno's reign if you don't think DiFronzo & Andriacchi had quit the Outfit?
DeLaurentis & D'Amico if you don't think DeLaurentis had quit the Outfit before D'Amico died?

Just suggestions for thought.

As I already said in one of my previous posts, I personally see 3 top guys...one was Ricca...followed by Accardo....and the last was DiFronzo. To have the power to close shop, and to create some type of semi-legit group that possibly exists even today...thats the power of a top boss...everyone else was an advisor, or boss or territorial boss or whatever...

When these guys were in trouble, the whole organization was on its feet...every time....thats how important those 3 guys were

Yes, I basically agree. I was only answering Frank's question about when there was possibly more than one Senior Advisor.

[Villain]

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it

The Senior Advisor position sometimes having 2 or 3 guys at the same time is eyeopening and could explain the clusterfuck of top guys in certain times. Also the Territorial Boss could at times be misconstrued as the Boss or The Man. I think your opinion on Ferriola being a Territorial Boss over Tocco is about the best explaination of what position he held.

Thanks

Is there time periods and names where there was more than one Sr Advisor. I would guess Guzik and Humphries time period

Yeah maybe during late 40s and first half of the 50s, we have Charlie Fisch died in 1951, Campagna died in 55, Guzik died in 56. I believe Humphreys shared the position together with Accardo during the Giancana era or from 57 until 64

Matter of opinion in how you want to look at Ricca but maybe (Ricca/Accardo) in the LATE 60's & early 70's until Ricca's death.
Matter of opinion in how you want to look at Accardo, but maybe (Accardo/Alex) in the late 70's though a lot of the 80's.
Lombardo & LaPietra in the late 90's.
DiFronzo & Andriacchi maybe during Sarno's reign if you don't think DiFronzo & Andriacchi had quit the Outfit?
DeLaurentis & D'Amico if you don't think DeLaurentis had quit the Outfit before D'Amico died?

Just suggestions for thought.

As I already said in one of my previous posts, I personally see 3 top guys...one was Ricca...followed by Accardo....and the last was DiFronzo. To have the power to close shop, and to create some type of semi-legit group that possibly exists even today...thats the power of a top boss...everyone else was an advisor, or boss or territorial boss or whatever...

When these guys were in trouble, the whole organization was on its feet...every time....thats how important those 3 guys were

Yes, I basically agree. I was only answering Frank's question about when there was possibly more than one Senior Advisor.

I agree about having more of a horizontal hierarchy within their own organization...i mean what do you expect, they were friends...theres some convos in which Accardo and Alex are fooling around with Ricca and telling jokes regarding his age, or when Accardo refused to give his new car to Alex just to try it, and everyone thought that he acted like a baby lol....

BUT when it came down to murder or any other important situation, Accardo waited for his orders so he can later spread them out to the rest of the top fellas. Or when it came down in bringing important decisions with the help of other families, this is how it went down...

[Villain]

Heres one small but quite deadly chat between Accardo and Alex...Ricca is also present...

[Villain]

Heres two interesting and at the same time, quite funny convos in which Humphreys trash talks Accardo with two different members and crew bosses, one is Jack Cerone and the other is Jimmy Allegretti...the reference to "Joe" is a reference to Accardo who was known as Joe Batters among his associates in and out of the Outfit

Humphreys first complaining about Accardos temper and wrong attitude towards one reporter, and then about making doctors appointments for Accardos wife




Humphreys talking about Accardos new car..."Gussie" is Alex

[Confederate]

Heres two interesting and at the same time, quite funny convos in which Humphreys trash talks Accardo with two different members and crew bosses, one is Jack Cerone and the other is Jimmy Allegretti...the reference to "Joe" is a reference to Accardo who was known as Joe Batters among his associates in and out of the Outfit

Humphreys first complaining about Accardos temper and wrong attitude towards one reporter, and then about making doctors appointments for Accardos wife




Humphreys talking about Accardos new car..."Gussie" is Alex

Humphreys must have been very confident of his power within the Outfit to talk about Accardo that way behind his back to two Street Bosses, especially, one being Cerone who was so close to Accardo. If they were in New York under Gotti & talked that way, the idle gossip would have been repeated & Gotti would have killed somebody over it. Let's put it this way, guys were killed for less under Gotti.

[Villain]

Heres two interesting and at the same time, quite funny convos in which Humphreys trash talks Accardo with two different members and crew bosses, one is Jack Cerone and the other is Jimmy Allegretti...the reference to "Joe" is a reference to Accardo who was known as Joe Batters among his associates in and out of the Outfit

Humphreys first complaining about Accardos temper and wrong attitude towards one reporter, and then about making doctors appointments for Accardos wife




Humphreys talking about Accardos new car..."Gussie" is Alex

Humphreys must have been very confident of his power within the Outfit to talk about Accardo that way behind his back to two Street Bosses, especially, one being Cerone who was so close to Accardo. If they were in New York under Gotti & talked that way, the idle gossip would have been repeated & Gotti would have killed somebody over it. Let's put it this way, guys were killed for less under Gotti.

I agree...guys were killed for much less but it seems that the Hump had no problems at all lol i also love the part where Cerone speaks about how much booze he and Accardo had, considering that he loved to drink lol