Understanding Chicago

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Re: Understanding Chicago

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Snakes wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 7:05 pm
cavita wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 6:39 pm
Snakes wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 1:23 pm
Villain wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 1:14 pm
Snakes wrote: Sat May 09, 2020 11:07 pm I think that the FBI just figured that Rockford was such a small city that it had to be direct with Chicago, especially by the 80s. It is pretty weird as I have seen Rockford defined by the FBI as a family, an Outfit crew, and finally a "faction" of the Outfit.
Chicago represented their interests on the commission right?

Cavita?
I am almost certain they would have but Cavita would know better.
Yes, they definitely had their interests represented by Chicago on the Commission. I do have an FBI file that has circulated around here of an instance in 1960 when the Rockford and Chicago families had to iron out a problem and Joe Zammuto wanted to speak to Giancana about it but he was unavailable. Jack Cerone was filling in his underboss Frank Ferraro about this problem and had to give Ferraro some background on Rockford because he had no clue about them. This situation told the FBI that Rockford and Chicago's interests were separate unless there were major problems that needed to be worked out. Files into the late 60s and early 70s also echoed this but I am hard pressed to find any files between 1973-1980 as the FBI had closed the books on Rockford thinking they were inactive until they realized that was premature and then they started reinvestigating them. By the time 1981 came around it's as if a new group of agents were looking into them and they didn't read up on past FBI reports. They didn't know how to classify the family- Chicago crew, separate family, Sicilian faction, etc.
They may have been aware that they were a separate family at some point but probably just assumed that they had been absorbed by the Outfit. In 1984 they were described as a "branch of the Chicago LCN Family," which is odd because there are definitely other sources at the time who identified them as a separate family. This may be a misinterpretation of the relationship the Outfit had with the other Midwest families, wherein they were technically independent but subservient to Chicago in the larger picture.
Yes, agreed! And we definitely knew they were working together into the 1980s and 1990s especially in regards to gambling. I did have a reporter tell me that he interviewed Bob Cooley and he stated that he had represented Sal DeLaurentis on a gambling charge in Rockford sometime in the 1980s but I have yet to find any reference to that.
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Re: Understanding Chicago

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Villain wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 4:34 am
Villain wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 12:49 am ...in addition, this also might mean that Costello had a crew boss above him who in turn was under LaPorte, which again confirms the territorial boss theory

Thats what I previously said, meaning Costello's caporegime was probably Ralph Ammirato at the time, the brother of former Chicago Heights overall or territorial boss Jim Ammirato. It is possible that Ralph took over from John Roberto, another guy who in turn was tge brother of the first Heights boss Dom Roberto who was deported during the early 30s.

Look at the situation like this, LaPorte controlled Chicago Heights, Calumet City, Blue Island, Will County, Joliet and northwest Indiana. So during Giancanas reign, he had around 3 or 4 caporegimes and crew bosses, since there was one non-Italian boss. The rest were soldiers and lieutenants, such as Costello.
At this point, you are simply beating a dead horse into the ground. The structure of the Outfit has been explained about 10 times now. However, I do commend your patience. :)
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Re: Understanding Chicago

Post by B. »

Looking at the transcript objectively, it sounded like Costello was asking Giancana's permission to have his (Costello's) caporegime meet with Frank LaPorte, also a caporegime. Costello was in a dispute with Joe Fusco over the liquor business in Costello's area and Fusco apparently wouldn't back down. Costello was simply a member and couldn't reach out to another caporegime directly, so this would be typical mob protocol, where a member must reach out to his own captain, who will then reach out to the other captain to settle the dispute. At the end Giancana gave him permission. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the language they used or the protocol they were following aside from Giancana using the term "clique".

What stands out to me about it is Costello was meeting directly with the boss to get permission for his captain to meet with another captain. That's definitely not typical protocol. You'd think he would have an easier time contacting LaPorte than directly meeting Giancana, so I'm guessing Costello and Giancana's meeting had more to do with friendship than mob protocol. Costello was also asking Giancana to take his (Costello's) side in the dispute, too, which makes me think this had more to do with their friendship.
Villain wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 4:34 am Look at the situation like this, LaPorte controlled Chicago Heights, Calumet City, Blue Island, Will County, Joliet and northwest Indiana. So during Giancanas reign, he had around 3 or 4 caporegimes and crew bosses, since there was one non-Italian boss. The rest were soldiers and lieutenants, such as Costello.
I believe the brewery owned by Joe Fusco was in Joliet. Given he was pushing into the Heights / Calumet City area and had a business in Joliet, what do you think about Fusco being a member in the LaPorte crew? The Giancana / Costello transcript gave me that impression but I don't know if he's been placed elsewhere at the time.

Thanks for adding info to some of the names I listed from Termini and interesting some of them have southside connections. The Jimmy Marcello I mentioned is the well-known one. It's probably been talked about on here before, but I thought it was interesting when Spilotro's brother testified against Jimmy Marcello he couldn't understand how Jimmy could have murdered the Spilotros given Marcello's father Sam had been murdered by the outfit years earlier. Has Sam Marcello been confirmed as a member? His mother being an Annoreno makes me believe he could have started out around the earlier Annorenos in the mafia, as Giuseppe Annoreno was from the same hometown.
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Re: Understanding Chicago

Post by Villain »

B. wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:25 pm Looking at the transcript objectively, it sounded like Costello was asking Giancana's permission to have his (Costello's) caporegime meet with Frank LaPorte, also a caporegime. Costello was in a dispute with Joe Fusco over the liquor business in Costello's area and Fusco apparently wouldn't back down. Costello was simply a member and couldn't reach out to another caporegime directly, so this would be typical mob protocol, where a member must reach out to his own captain, who will then reach out to the other captain to settle the dispute. At the end Giancana gave him permission. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the language they used or the protocol they were following aside from Giancana using the term "clique".

What stands out to me about it is Costello was meeting directly with the boss to get permission for his captain to meet with another captain. That's definitely not typical protocol. You'd think he would have an easier time contacting LaPorte than directly meeting Giancana, so I'm guessing Costello and Giancana's meeting had more to do with friendship than mob protocol. Costello was also asking Giancana to take his (Costello's) side in the dispute, too, which makes me think this had more to do with their friendship.
Villain wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 4:34 am Look at the situation like this, LaPorte controlled Chicago Heights, Calumet City, Blue Island, Will County, Joliet and northwest Indiana. So during Giancanas reign, he had around 3 or 4 caporegimes and crew bosses, since there was one non-Italian boss. The rest were soldiers and lieutenants, such as Costello.
I believe the brewery owned by Joe Fusco was in Joliet. Given he was pushing into the Heights / Calumet City area and had a business in Joliet, what do you think about Fusco being a member in the LaPorte crew? The Giancana / Costello transcript gave me that impression but I don't know if he's been placed elsewhere at the time.

Thanks for adding info to some of the names I listed from Termini and interesting some of them have southside connections. The Jimmy Marcello I mentioned is the well-known one. It's probably been talked about on here before, but I thought it was interesting when Spilotro's brother testified against Jimmy Marcello he couldn't understand how Jimmy could have murdered the Spilotros given Marcello's father Sam had been murdered by the outfit years earlier. Has Sam Marcello been confirmed as a member? His mother being an Annoreno makes me believe he could have started out around the earlier Annorenos in the mafia, as Giuseppe Annoreno was from the same hometown.
Fusco was with Ralph Capone and the Fischettis and thats 100%. Since day one he belonged to the old South Side mob under Capone which bordered with the Chicago Heights Mob. During the 60s Fusco answered to Alex and Ferraro, the bosses of the South at the time, and theres one good example where he goes to Alex regarding the Mike Romano problem, meaning he didnt go to LaPorte. I also believe that Fusco was a caporegime under Alex/Ferraro and held more weight then Costello, which completely explains his actions. It doesnt matter where the factory was placed, whats important are the areas filled with joints and stores and who controlled them.

I already posted this in this same thread but it doesnt matter...here we go again...regarding Fuscos problem...

Image

Image

Costello clearly says that his caporegime told him to talk to LaPorte, the major capo who obviously wasnt interested or didnt have to time to interfere since he was going constantly back and forth to the west coast at the time. Again, territorial boss with several caporegimes and crew bosses beneath him. There were four top guys, west, south, north and southern suburbs...as board of directors right beneath the top admin...like a sub-commission that represented the interests of all of the caporegimes, crew bosses and soldiers...hundreds of evidences regarding this theory.

Also many guys were direct with Giancana, including simple street associates such as Carl Fiorito and many others
Last edited by Villain on Mon May 11, 2020 2:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Understanding Chicago

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Villain wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:44 pm
Fusco was with Ralph Capone and the Fischettis and thats 100%. Since day one he belonged to the old South Side mob under Capone which bordered with the Chicago Heights Mob. During the 60s Fusco answered to Alex and Ferraro, the bosses of the South at the time, and theres one good example where he goes to Alex regarding the Mike Romano problem, meaning he didnt go to LaPorte. I also believe that Fusco was a caporegime under Alex/Ferraro and held more weight then Costello.

Costello clearly says that his caporegime told him to talk to LaPorte, the major capo who obviously wasnt interested or didnt have to time to interfere since he was going constantly back and forth to the west coast at the time. Again, territorial boss with several caporegimes and crew bosses beneath him. There were four top guys, west, south, north and southern suburbs...as board of directors right beneath the top admin....hundreds of evidences regarding this theory.

Also many guys were direct with Giancana, including simple street associates such as Carl Fiorito and many others
Correct.
LaPorte was the "Territory Boss" of the Far South. Under him were "Street Bosses". Costello was obviously under one of the Street Bosses who was under LaPorte. Since LaPorte wasn't there, Costello, being a made man, reached up to Giancana. Not unusual at all. Made guys have the right to talk to Top Bosses in certain situations. Giancana was known to have direct contact on occasion with all types of made guys & associates in Chicago. Plenty of F.B.I. transcripts of Giancana talking directly to many different guys.
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Re: Understanding Chicago

Post by Villain »

Confederate wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 12:06 am
Villain wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 11:44 pm
Fusco was with Ralph Capone and the Fischettis and thats 100%. Since day one he belonged to the old South Side mob under Capone which bordered with the Chicago Heights Mob. During the 60s Fusco answered to Alex and Ferraro, the bosses of the South at the time, and theres one good example where he goes to Alex regarding the Mike Romano problem, meaning he didnt go to LaPorte. I also believe that Fusco was a caporegime under Alex/Ferraro and held more weight then Costello.

Costello clearly says that his caporegime told him to talk to LaPorte, the major capo who obviously wasnt interested or didnt have to time to interfere since he was going constantly back and forth to the west coast at the time. Again, territorial boss with several caporegimes and crew bosses beneath him. There were four top guys, west, south, north and southern suburbs...as board of directors right beneath the top admin....hundreds of evidences regarding this theory.

Also many guys were direct with Giancana, including simple street associates such as Carl Fiorito and many others
Correct.
LaPorte was the "Territory Boss" of the Far South. Under him were "Street Bosses". Costello was obviously under one of the Street Bosses who was under LaPorte. Since LaPorte wasn't there, Costello, being a made man, reached up to Giancana. Not unusual at all. Made guys have the right to talk to Top Bosses in certain situations. Giancana was known to have direct contact on occasion with all types of made guys & associates in Chicago. Plenty of F.B.I. transcripts of Giancana talking directly to many different guys.
I agree again...Ricca did the same thing and had to snitch on Cerone to save his own ass lol
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Re: Understanding Chicago

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It's not that Costello was able to talk directly with Giancana that surprised me, it's that he is trying to follow proper protocol with regard to LaPorte and Fusco but is still in effect going above their heads. Costello wants to go through the motions of protocol even though he is soliciting direct support from the boss before LaPorte has been consulted. Near the end Costello seems concerned how LaPorte will react given he solicited Giancana first, which tells us he knows this meeting with Giancana could be taken the wrong way.

When Costello lays out why he wants to contact LaPorte, he tells Giancana it's because LaPorte can give them info on liquor licenses in Chicago Heights. He says he (Costello) and another associate keep a tight hold on Heights liquor licenses and maintain certain policies surrounding liquor distribution in the area, which Fusco isn't following. Costello apparently believes that LaPorte's info on liquor licenses will be helpful in getting Fusco to back off or slow down. So it doesn't appear LaPorte necessarily has control over Fusco, only that he knows the way liquor distribution is supposed to be handled in Chicago Heights and Costello wants to consult him on it believing it will help settle the Fusco problem.

Not all captains are created equal, that's for sure. It makes sense that certain caporegimes would be more influential and carry weight in certain activities / territories and operate almost like a ruling panel. Frank LaPorte was identified by Bompensiero and Fratianno as a caporegime, so he is a great example given the authority he carried in certain territory.

--

Curious who the "unknown" is in the transcript. It's said he speaks in broken English and he is the one who brings up Costello's problem and tells him to explain it to Giancana. He is present while Costello and Giancana talk about protocol. Most interesting is the end where he starts to talk about traveling around the country and being upset that they were killing "all the (obscene) bosses," probably referring to the 1920s or 1930s. Certainly comes across like an older made member, and from the limited introduction the transcript gives us it almost looks like it was this "unknown" who brokered the meeting between Giancana and Costello.

--

Another Chicago member I wonder about is "Joe" LNU, identified by Frank Bompensiero as a made member close to Felix Alderisio circa 1968. "Joe" was described as around 61-years-old, grey hair, bald, hooked nose, and hunchbacked, with a cane and bad limp. Bompensiero saw his home at night and said he trained dogs and had acreage, believing "Joe" was wealthy. Would appear he lived a ways outside of the city given his property.

"Joe" was the point of contact between the St. Louis and Chicago families who arranged the late 1968 meeting between Giardano, Bompensiero, and Alderisio to discuss a Teamsters loan. Giardano and Bompensiero were first taken to the Towne Hotel in Cicero where they met "Joe". Bompensiero recalled visiting the same hotel for mafia meetings decades earlier when Al Capone was still the boss. "Joe" may have been involved in the Cicero area given he arranged to meet them at this hotel.

We went over some candidates in a St. Louis thread once, but maybe in a Chicago-focused thread more ideas will come to mind. The description of him makes me imagine a cartoon old man... it sounds like virtually every symptom of old age hit this guy at the same time.
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Re: Understanding Chicago

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B. wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 3:14 am It's not that Costello was able to talk directly with Giancana that surprised me, it's that he is trying to follow proper protocol with regard to LaPorte and Fusco but is still in effect going above their heads. Costello wants to go through the motions of protocol even though he is soliciting direct support from the boss before LaPorte has been consulted. Near the end Costello seems concerned how LaPorte will react given he solicited Giancana first, which tells us he knows this meeting with Giancana could be taken the wrong way.

When Costello lays out why he wants to contact LaPorte, he tells Giancana it's because LaPorte can give them info on liquor licenses in Chicago Heights. He says he (Costello) and another associate keep a tight hold on Heights liquor licenses and maintain certain policies surrounding liquor distribution in the area, which Fusco isn't following. Costello apparently believes that LaPorte's info on liquor licenses will be helpful in getting Fusco to back off or slow down. So it doesn't appear LaPorte necessarily has control over Fusco, only that he knows the way liquor distribution is supposed to be handled in Chicago Heights and Costello wants to consult him on it believing it will help settle the Fusco problem.

Not all captains are created equal, that's for sure. It makes sense that certain caporegimes would be more influential and carry weight in certain activities / territories and operate almost like a ruling panel. Frank LaPorte was identified by Bompensiero and Fratianno as a caporegime, so he is a great example given the authority he carried in certain territory.

--

Curious who the "unknown" is in the transcript. It's said he speaks in broken English and he is the one who brings up Costello's problem and tells him to explain it to Giancana. He is present while Costello and Giancana talk about protocol. Most interesting is the end where he starts to talk about traveling around the country and being upset that they were killing "all the (obscene) bosses," probably referring to the 1920s or 1930s. Certainly comes across like an older made member, and from the limited introduction the transcript gives us it almost looks like it was this "unknown" who brokered the meeting between Giancana and Costello.

--

Another Chicago member I wonder about is "Joe" LNU, identified by Frank Bompensiero as a made member close to Felix Alderisio circa 1968. "Joe" was described as around 61-years-old, grey hair, bald, hooked nose, and hunchbacked, with a cane and bad limp. Bompensiero saw his home at night and said he trained dogs and had acreage, believing "Joe" was wealthy. Would appear he lived a ways outside of the city given his property.

"Joe" was the point of contact between the St. Louis and Chicago families who arranged the late 1968 meeting between Giardano, Bompensiero, and Alderisio to discuss a Teamsters loan. Giardano and Bompensiero were first taken to the Towne Hotel in Cicero where they met "Joe". Bompensiero recalled visiting the same hotel for mafia meetings decades earlier when Al Capone was still the boss. "Joe" may have been involved in the Cicero area given he arranged to meet them at this hotel.

We went over some candidates in a St. Louis thread once, but maybe in a Chicago-focused thread more ideas will come to mind. The description of him makes me imagine a cartoon old man... it sounds like virtually every symptom of old age hit this guy at the same time.
Im not going to say this again but Fusco wasnt under LaPorte nor under Giancanas West Side crew. Understand this pls....

I agree, meaning about the same situation regarding Costello trying to follow protocol....the reality was that there was no protocol during Giancanas reign since the guy simply didnt care....and all of the territorial bosses knew that...the guys during Giancanas reign were Battaglia (West), Prio (North), LaPorte (southern suburbs) and Alex (South). All of those guys hated Giancana because of his lack of attention or presence. This was also one of the main reasons for which one large group from the West Side (Buccieri) joined the South Side mob and later completely took it over.

As I already said, you can choose between John Roberto, Ralph Ammirato, Francis Curry and Babe Tuffanelli on who was Costellos caporegime, who in turn answered to LaPorte.

Pranno, Alderisio, Daddono, all of these guys were caporegimes who answered to Battaglia, same as Nuccio, Allegretti and DiVarco who answered to Prio. Caruso, Vogel, Pierce, Briatta, Marcy, Ralph answered to Alex and Ferraro.
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Re: Understanding Chicago

Post by Villain »

B. wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 3:14 am
@B my man...

Just a little tip of the iceberg regarding the four guys...most of these files can be found with a simple quick search on the MF site for those who want to know more about it...

During Giancanas reign, Battaglia being the boss of Pranno and Alderisio(all of those areas were controlled by those two fellas and I think that Ed already killed it with his article on Pranno). Daddono and Caifano also answered to Teets

Image

Regarding the late 60s....Ricca top boss, Accardo senior adviser, Cerone boss, Buccieri underboss...Prio (North), LaPorte (Heights), Alderisio (West) and Alex (South)

Image

Regarding the first half of the 70s, Lombardo (West), Pilotto (Heights), Torello (South) and even though he is not mentioned in this file, DiBella succeeded Prio as the overall boss of the North. We also have Catuara as crew boss under Pilotto with Tootsie Palermo as his lieutenant

Image

When Tocco succeeded Pilotto during the mid 80s, he was still a young capo so he had to report to Ferriola at the start, who in turn was the South Side boss after LaPietra. When Ferriola died, Tocco became the legit overall boss of the Heights, with Palermo (C City and C Heights) and Bernard Morgano (northwest Indiana) beneath him. By 1994 the Heights mob was finished and was absorbed by the Ferriola/Infelice/Monteleone/Spano/Caruso jr/Sarno regimes
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Re: Understanding Chicago

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Villain wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 3:34 am Im not going to say this again but Fusco wasnt under LaPorte nor under Giancanas West Side crew. Understand this pls....
In an earlier post I was wondering if Fusco was under LaPorte, but I was agreeing with you in my last post after reading the transcript again. After re-reading the transcript, there was nothing to suggest Fusco was under LaPorte. Costello makes it clear he wants to consult with LaPorte because LaPorte knows the liquor distribution policy they established in Chicago Heights and Costello feels this information can be used to stop Fusco from aggressively taking over distribution in the area. It's not that LaPorte has direct authority over Fusco, it's that LaPorte's information on liquor distribution policy in the Heights will be useful to Costello's side of the dispute.

As I already said, you can choose between John Roberto, Ralph Ammirato, Francis Curry and Babe Tuffanelli on who was Costellos caporegime, who in turn answered to LaPorte.

Pranno, Alderisio, Daddono, all of these guys were caporegimes who answered to Battaglia, same as Nuccio, Allegretti and DiVarco who answered to Prio. Caruso, Vogel, Pierce, Briatta, Marcy, Ralph answered to Alex and Ferraro.
That would be similar to the Bonanno family during the Massino era. A small number of the family's captains were on a committee and the other captains in the family each reported to one of those committee members. This wasn't a ruling panel put in place because the leadership was off the streets, just a way to insulate the top leadership. The committee members still held the rank of caporegime, but their power and influence was greater than other caporegimes who reported to them. It's not an exact comparison to Chicago, but the excerpts and examples you shared seem to follow the same chain of command.

However, I'm having a hard time with the idea that all of the above guys held the rank of caporegime at the same time. Member sources are consistent that the top guy in each crew (not including the administration) would hold the rank of caporegime even in Chicago. Regardless of the chain of command, did Chicago really have ~15 caporegimes? If you mean these guys had crews, that makes sense, but I'm using caporegime as it is meant when sources call LaPorte, Pilotta, or Lombardo caporegimes. Whoever Costello reported to would have held the same rank even if he was of lesser stature given that Costello is using that specific term.
Villain wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 4:35 am Image
This fits my view pretty closely as they are all labeled "capo", including LaPorte. They all held the same official rank, but some of the capos / caporegimes were more important and had authority over others.

Where I think we veer into different viewpoints is that I don't think a powerful caporegime with authority/influence over other caporegimes means he has a completely different title in the family. Frank LaPorte is still described by member sources and the FBI as a caporegime even though if he had authority over other caporegimes and controlled a wide territory.

I don't doubt that LaPorte was higher up in the chain of command, along with other select caporegimes, but when Costello mentions his own caporegime I don't see where it differs from any other family's use of the term. He seems to be discussing pretty typical mob protocol.
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Re: Understanding Chicago

Post by Snakes »

There were definitely guys that were "first among equals" as far as capos were concerned. There were many more of these in the sixties and early seventies than there were later on, probably due to attrition in the Outfit ranks. A group of "elder statesmen" that were less active and delegated a lot of the day to day work.
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Re: Understanding Chicago

Post by Confederate »

Trying to say that LaPorte was simply a Capo of higher stature than Costello's Capo doesn't work. Going by that logic, then you could say Giancana was simply "first among equals" compared to Ross Prio or any other Head of some crew.

The more realistic way is to say that under the Top 3 there were 4 big "Territory Bosses". Each one of those guys had a few guys who were direct with them for a specific reason. The 4 Territories were the North, West, South & Far South. Under those Territory Bosses were "Street Bosses" of smaller areas. Under the Street bosses were their top assistants & guys who worked for the crews.

Nobody should be using these "Sicilian" terms to always try & describe the structure of the Outfit in the older days. The Outfit was a "Syndicate" long before it "absorbed" the Mafia according to the research.
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Re: Understanding Chicago

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That was misspoken on my part. "First among equals" was the wrong word. Basically meant to say that guys like Prio and LaPorte were given much more respect than those that held that position in later years, for example, Solano or Pilotto. But in the sixties you had so many guys that ran little territories that there were almost layers of capos or bosses. The top guys and then the second rung (guys like Skid Caruso).
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Re: Understanding Chicago

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B. wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 3:46 pm
Villain wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 3:34 am Im not going to say this again but Fusco wasnt under LaPorte nor under Giancanas West Side crew. Understand this pls....
In an earlier post I was wondering if Fusco was under LaPorte, but I was agreeing with you in my last post after reading the transcript again. After re-reading the transcript, there was nothing to suggest Fusco was under LaPorte. Costello makes it clear he wants to consult with LaPorte because LaPorte knows the liquor distribution policy they established in Chicago Heights and Costello feels this information can be used to stop Fusco from aggressively taking over distribution in the area. It's not that LaPorte has direct authority over Fusco, it's that LaPorte's information on liquor distribution policy in the Heights will be useful to Costello's side of the dispute.

As I already said, you can choose between John Roberto, Ralph Ammirato, Francis Curry and Babe Tuffanelli on who was Costellos caporegime, who in turn answered to LaPorte.

Pranno, Alderisio, Daddono, all of these guys were caporegimes who answered to Battaglia, same as Nuccio, Allegretti and DiVarco who answered to Prio. Caruso, Vogel, Pierce, Briatta, Marcy, Ralph answered to Alex and Ferraro.
That would be similar to the Bonanno family during the Massino era. A small number of the family's captains were on a committee and the other captains in the family each reported to one of those committee members. This wasn't a ruling panel put in place because the leadership was off the streets, just a way to insulate the top leadership. The committee members still held the rank of caporegime, but their power and influence was greater than other caporegimes who reported to them. It's not an exact comparison to Chicago, but the excerpts and examples you shared seem to follow the same chain of command.

However, I'm having a hard time with the idea that all of the above guys held the rank of caporegime at the same time. Member sources are consistent that the top guy in each crew (not including the administration) would hold the rank of caporegime even in Chicago. Regardless of the chain of command, did Chicago really have ~15 caporegimes? If you mean these guys had crews, that makes sense, but I'm using caporegime as it is meant when sources call LaPorte, Pilotta, or Lombardo caporegimes. Whoever Costello reported to would have held the same rank even if he was of lesser stature given that Costello is using that specific term.
Villain wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 4:35 am Image
This fits my view pretty closely as they are all labeled "capo", including LaPorte. They all held the same official rank, but some of the capos / caporegimes were more important and had authority over others.

Where I think we veer into different viewpoints is that I don't think a powerful caporegime with authority/influence over other caporegimes means he has a completely different title in the family. Frank LaPorte is still described by member sources and the FBI as a caporegime even though if he had authority over other caporegimes and controlled a wide territory.

I don't doubt that LaPorte was higher up in the chain of command, along with other select caporegimes, but when Costello mentions his own caporegime I don't see where it differs from any other family's use of the term. He seems to be discussing pretty typical mob protocol.
I agree. As I already said, LaPorte held more weight and respectability then the rest of the capos in his own area, and thats why he was the main rep for that same group. In fact, these guys came up through LaPorte regime when he was under Emery aka Ammirato

Speaking about on who held more weight or was more respectable, heres one interesting example in which Outfit member and capo Rocco Fischetti and New York capo Mike Coppola had a problem, since Fischettis brother Joe wasnt receiving the right percentage from one of Coppolas guys in Florida...so according to Rocco Fish, his opponent Coppola carried more weight then him, besides both being capos at the time (this is the important thing), and so he went straight to Giancana, who in turn called for a commission meeting in Florida, and the Chicago group prevailed.

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Later Rocco Fish even gave a beating to that same Genovese associate who tried to screw them, in front of Coppola...

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Last edited by Villain on Tue May 12, 2020 3:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God - Corinthians 6:9-10
Villain
Filthy Few
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Re: Understanding Chicago

Post by Villain »

Chicagos formation

Top boss or the Man

Senior Advisor (sometimes two or three guys)

Boss or chief executive

Underboss or number two guy

Four territorial bosses, overall bosses or major caporegimes (ill go with territorial bosses since there were also non-Italians)

Street bosses, caporegimes and crew bosses

Lieutenants and soldiers

Associates

Everyone can choose their own terms which fit perfectly in their own minds, but still this used to be the original formation and theres no question about it
Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God - Corinthians 6:9-10
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