Understanding Chicago

[Confederate]

Since this thread is called "Understanding Chicago", I also want to add something about the so called new Outfit or post-70s era

Lets look at the old Outfit as four "crime families" under one top administration, and so by the mid 1990s, three of those "crime families" were finished, dead, adios amigos....

By the late 1970s, the old South Side Mob, or as I want to call it the original Capone crew, was finished and one group from the large West Side faction took over their areas and districts and became the new South Side mob (Buccieri, Torello, LaPietra, Ferriola, Infelice, Monteleone, Caruso Jr, Sarno, DeLaurentis, Cataudella, Inendino).

In reality, the West Side "crime family" took over all of the interests of the old South Side faction but as time passed by, that same particular West Side crew from Cicero and Chinatown which took over the South Side interests, during the following decades slowly became a separate faction from the West Side mob, mainly because of the rising younger generations who possibly "forgot" about their roots.

By the early 1990s, both the old North Side and Chicago Heights "crime families" were finished, and so again, the West Side group (DiFronzo, Andriacchi, Centracchio, Cozzo) took over most of the interests around the North, while the newly created South Side mob kept their interests in certain parts in that same territory such as Lake County, and also took over the Chicago Heights area and all southern suburbs

During that time the leaders of one group from the West Side mob, meaning the Melrose Park crew, eere in jail and by 2006 they were finished, and their interests in both Cicero and MP were mostly absorbed by the leading South Side faction under Sarno and his fellas. After the death of the Aiuppa/Carlisi/Tornabene/Marcello crew, the Sarno group finally had the whole Cicero area for them, something which many of his predecessors tried to do many years before him.

I also believe that by the early or maybe even mid 2010's the Elmwood Park crew also completely closed shop, thus possibly leaving some high level members like Dote in close relationship with the only remaining West Side crew aka Grand Av "crew" under Vena and Spina.

As for the so-called South Side mob, I currently still dont have any opinion because it seems that DeLaurentis is out of the game, same as Cataudella and Caruso Jr, Marino is dead and the only one from the old guard who allegedly is still "active" is Inendino, but still theres no real evidence about this claim. We still have guys like the younger Marino and Nick Ferriola but thats far from being a organization.

Somebody recently floated the idea that any elements still active from Elmwood Park had merged with Grand Avenue. And what was left of the 26th Street crew had lined up with Melrose Park.

As we know, those were the 4 crews the feds mentioned around 2005-2007. But there was also comments by the feds of things being run in "northern and southern sections" and the Outfit being "down to 2 or 3 crews."

4 named crews seems pretty straightforward but, during that time, investigators said they considered the Marcello crew as "running everyrhing." Then Sarno seemed to be running things before he went away.

So, the question is, are there still 4 independent, functioning crews in 2020 like there were 15 years ago? Or have things been even more consolidated?

Considering that Elmwood Park was basically deactivated & considering that whatever is left of 26th St. is part of or dominated by Cicero, a logical "guess" would be Northern & Southern. Cicero in the South & Grand Avenue in the North. Until the Feds officially confirm it, I guess we really don't know for sure. The last thing the Feds said about the Outfit (Jeff Sallet) wasn't too promising to say the least.

[Pete]

I’d say 3 crews Cicero, Chinatown, grand ave. As stated Elmwood Park hasn’t really been a. Crew in years. You had Elmwood pArk guys like D’Amico and dote who had been active but they seemed to be operating on their own not as part of a crew per se. 3 crews would be my best guess overall

[Villain]

Somebody recently floated the idea that any elements still active from Elmwood Park had merged with Grand Avenue. And what was left of the 26th Street crew had lined up with Melrose Park.

As we know, those were the 4 crews the feds mentioned around 2005-2007. But there was also comments by the feds of things being run in "northern and southern sections" and the Outfit being "down to 2 or 3 crews."

4 named crews seems pretty straightforward but, during that time, investigators said they considered the Marcello crew as "running everyrhing." Then Sarno seemed to be running things before he went away.

So, the question is, are there still 4 independent, functioning crews in 2020 like there were 15 years ago? Or have things been even more consolidated?

I mostly agree with Confederate and Pete.

When the Marcello crew was gone or after Zizzos demise, there were two main groups with 4 crews, EP, Grand Av, Cicero and Chinatown, with EP and Grand Av representing the North/West side while the other two crews represented the South faction.

By now, most of us believe that the EP crew is long gone, except for Dote maybe, and some also speculate that Carusos Chinatown crew is also defunct. So if thats the case, then right now we only have Grand Av under Vena and Spina (and possibly Dote) or the north side mob, and the Cicero crew aka the South faction....so thats only two

[Villain]

Btw few days ago i watched one of Cullottas videos on his channel and in it he says that Lombardo came under Johnny Bananas....he said it wasnt DiFronzo but instead it was the older Johnny Bananas from Elmwood Park and I believe he was probably talking about old time member John DeBiase.

I personally always thought that Lombardo started in the same areas which were controlled by Pranno and later by Alderisio and Nicoletti. Although it seems that there was always some type of very close connection between the EP and Grand Av crews so maybe old man Cullotta is right, meaning Lombardo allegedly coming up under EP??

Thoughts?

[Confederate]

Btw few days ago i watched one of Cullottas videos on his channel and in it he says that Lombardo came under Johnny Bananas....he said it wasnt DiFronzo but instead it was the older Johnny Bananas from Elmwood Park and I believe he was probably talking about old time member John DeBiase.

I personally always thought that Lombardo started in the same areas which were controlled by Pranno and later by Alderisio and Nicoletti. Although it seems that there was always some type of very close connection between the EP and Grand Av crews so maybe old man Cullotta is right, meaning Lombardo allegedly coming up under EP??

Thoughts?

I think he said Lombardo came up or was close to Cerone. I also think he said that when Cerone wanted something heavy done, he would go to Lombardo rather than DiFronzo because Lombardo would do it himself & DiFronzo would haveto get someone else to do it. That's what I remember from watching that video. it still means to mean that DiFronzo ran Elmwood park under Cerone & Lombardo ran Grand Avenue under Cerone. Anyway, that's the way I understood it.

[Villain]

Btw few days ago i watched one of Cullottas videos on his channel and in it he says that Lombardo came under Johnny Bananas....he said it wasnt DiFronzo but instead it was the older Johnny Bananas from Elmwood Park and I believe he was probably talking about old time member John DeBiase.

I personally always thought that Lombardo started in the same areas which were controlled by Pranno and later by Alderisio and Nicoletti. Although it seems that there was always some type of very close connection between the EP and Grand Av crews so maybe old man Cullotta is right, meaning Lombardo allegedly coming up under EP??

Thoughts?

I think he said Lombardo came up or was close to Cerone. I also think he said that when Cerone wanted something heavy done, he would go to Lombardo rather than DiFronzo because Lombardo would do it himself & DiFronzo would haveto get someone else to do it. That's what I remember from watching that video. it still means to mean that DiFronzo ran Elmwood park under Cerone & Lombardo ran Grand Avenue under Cerone. Anyway, that's the way I understood it.

I think we are talking about different videos...in this one Cullotta said Johnny Bananas, and he also added not DiFronzo but the older one...DeBiases nickname was Johnny Bananas who in turn was old time member of the EP crew

[Confederate]

Btw few days ago i watched one of Cullottas videos on his channel and in it he says that Lombardo came under Johnny Bananas....he said it wasnt DiFronzo but instead it was the older Johnny Bananas from Elmwood Park and I believe he was probably talking about old time member John DeBiase.

I personally always thought that Lombardo started in the same areas which were controlled by Pranno and later by Alderisio and Nicoletti. Although it seems that there was always some type of very close connection between the EP and Grand Av crews so maybe old man Cullotta is right, meaning Lombardo allegedly coming up under EP??

Thoughts?

I think he said Lombardo came up or was close to Cerone. I also think he said that when Cerone wanted something heavy done, he would go to Lombardo rather than DiFronzo because Lombardo would do it himself & DiFronzo would haveto get someone else to do it. That's what I remember from watching that video. It still means to mean that DiFronzo ran Elmwood park under Cerone & Lombardo ran Grand Avenue under Cerone. Anyway, that's the way I understood it.

I think we are talking about different videos...in this one Cullotta said Johnny Bananas, and he also added not DiFronzo but the older one...DeBiases nickname was Johnny Bananas who in turn was old time member of the EP crew

Oh, okay. But didn't Lombardo come up under Milwaukee Phil & the Grand Avenue Group? I thought I read that Spilotro (after he left DeStefano) & Lombardo were under Phil Alderisio. Then, when Alderisio moved up, Lombardo moved up & took over that Crew.
Also, Cullotta said that Tony Spilotro was direct with Auippa. Well, yes & no. Spilotro was under Lombardo but I'm sure he dealt with Lombardo & Auippa & Cerone directly. Cullotta seemed to not want to say that Spilotro was under Lombardo. Cullotta told some interesting & entertaining stories but some of what he said didn't make any sense.

[Villain]

Btw few days ago i watched one of Cullottas videos on his channel and in it he says that Lombardo came under Johnny Bananas....he said it wasnt DiFronzo but instead it was the older Johnny Bananas from Elmwood Park and I believe he was probably talking about old time member John DeBiase.

I personally always thought that Lombardo started in the same areas which were controlled by Pranno and later by Alderisio and Nicoletti. Although it seems that there was always some type of very close connection between the EP and Grand Av crews so maybe old man Cullotta is right, meaning Lombardo allegedly coming up under EP??

Thoughts?

I think he said Lombardo came up or was close to Cerone. I also think he said that when Cerone wanted something heavy done, he would go to Lombardo rather than DiFronzo because Lombardo would do it himself & DiFronzo would haveto get someone else to do it. That's what I remember from watching that video. It still means to mean that DiFronzo ran Elmwood park under Cerone & Lombardo ran Grand Avenue under Cerone. Anyway, that's the way I understood it.

I think we are talking about different videos...in this one Cullotta said Johnny Bananas, and he also added not DiFronzo but the older one...DeBiases nickname was Johnny Bananas who in turn was old time member of the EP crew

Oh, okay. But didn't Lombardo come up under Milwaukee Phil & the Grand Avenue Group? I thought I read that Spilotro (after he left DeStefano) & Lombardo were under Phil Alderisio. Then, when Alderisio moved up, Lombardo moved up & took over that Crew.
Also, Cullotta said that Tony Spilotro was direct with Auippa. Well, yes & no. Spilotro was under Lombardo but I'm sure he dealt with Lombardo & Auippa & Cerone directly. Cullotta seemed to not want to say that Spilotro was under Lombardo. Cullotta told some interesting & entertaining stories but some of what he said didn't make any sense.

Thats why I asked and yeah i agree that his stories should be taken with few grains of salt, mainly because he was an associate and on top of that, he is over 80 years old but i love listening to his storytelling and that tough Chi accent lol

As for Spilotro, during the late 50s or early 60s he was placed under Mad Sam and even Cullotta confirmed this, meaning sometimes the old man knows what he is talking about lol thats how Spilotro went under both Alderisio and Nicoletti and by the late 60s Spilotro was direct with Alderisio.

I also believe in Cullottas theory that if Spilotro didnt go to Vegas and remained in Chicago, he was going to be the boss of Grand Av instead of Lombardo, obviously because Tony held a lot more weight then Lombardo at the time

[Villain]

Heres one convo in which Cerone mentiones DeBiase as Johnny Bananas...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 8&tab=page

[Antiliar]

I’d say 3 crews Cicero, Chinatown, grand ave. As stated Elmwood Park hasn’t really been a. Crew in years. You had Elmwood pArk guys like D’Amico and dote who had been active but they seemed to be operating on their own not as part of a crew per se. 3 crews would be my best guess overall

Steven Mandell referred to Albie Vena as the boss of Elmwood Park, so if true, EP is part of Grand Avenue. We also haven't heard anything about Chinatown in years, so I'm not sure it's an active crew today either. So like Villain speculates, it might be part of Cicero now. That's my thinking as well, that there are currently only two active crews. I'm open to Chinatown still being viable, but I haven't seen evidence for it for a very long time.

[Wiseguy]

Steven Mandell referred to Albie Vena as the boss of Elmwood Park, so if true, EP is part of Grand Avenue. We also haven't heard anything about Chinatown in years, so I'm not sure it's an active crew today either. So like Villain speculates, it might be part of Cicero now. That's my thinking as well, that there are currently only two active crews. I'm open to Chinatown still being viable, but I haven't seen evidence for it for a very long time.

My thoughts exactly.

[Pete]

I’d say 3 crews Cicero, Chinatown, grand ave. As stated Elmwood Park hasn’t really been a. Crew in years. You had Elmwood pArk guys like D’Amico and dote who had been active but they seemed to be operating on their own not as part of a crew per se. 3 crews would be my best guess overall

Steven Mandell referred to Albie Vena as the boss of Elmwood Park, so if true, EP is part of Grand Avenue. We also haven't heard anything about Chinatown in years, so I'm not sure it's an active crew today either. So like Villain speculates, it might be part of Cicero now. That's my thinking as well, that there are currently only two active crews. I'm open to Chinatown still being viable, but I haven't seen evidence for it for a very long time.

I’m not sure if you have the transcript where mandell calls vena ep crew head but when mandell was on the stand the prosecutor specifically said to mandell during questioning did you know Albert vena to be the boss of the grand ave crew. I’ve reached my limit of free articles with the Chicago tribune so I can’t link to it but You can find it with an easy search. The last time I saw Chinatown referenced in a case was the sarno case where there was many instances of Caruso meeting sarno in the Chinatown area. Granted that was awhile ago now but I would tend to believe Chinatown is still around

[Antiliar]

CT 2017Nov14 p5 Vena Mandell Ruggirello - Elmwood Park clip.jpg

[Snakes]

CT 2017Nov14 p5 Vena Mandell Ruggirello - Elmwood Park clip.jpg

I thought that was a typo since other articles on Mandell have Venas a Grand Avenue boss. I figured they just took Mendell's quote and got it mixed up with Vena's position.

[Antiliar]

CT 2017Nov14 p5 Vena Mandell Ruggirello - Elmwood Park clip.jpg

I thought that was a typo since other articles on Mandell have Venas a Grand Avenue boss. I figured they just took Mendell's quote and got it mixed up with Vena's position.

I think both are true. Vena is the GA boss and the leader of the EP crew. EP is part of GA. That's how I read it.