Boss Earnings

[Pogo The Clown]

If Defede’s numbers are accurate, that’s a huge drop in Lucchese earnings in just a few years. I added up all the tribute Al D’Arco mentions Vic and Gas receiving and it was over $4m a year and that didn’t even include things like gas tax and the garment district.

Yeah by the time Defede was running things the family had lost the garbage rackets, the airports and the garment center and construction rockets had been significantly reduced. In addition several of their main crews had been decimated with most of their Capos and top Soldiers in prison.

keep in mind that the capos Massino specifically quoted as kicking up to him were the ones he was closest with. he put all those guys in position and also had them on various makeshift panels and/or admin positions at some point. im just assuming he rattled off those names ONLY, because it was easy to remember and he had more personal dealings and relationships with those guys. just a thought (and in a 15 page thread theres a chance thats already been addressed)

He said he only took monthly tribute from some Capos. So for others they only paid a Christmas tribute.


Pogo

[TommyGambino]

So are we agreed then? A few million a year to a boss of a large family will be permitted - but controlled?

I think it's possible. But as we know, the money in that life can fluctuate a lot depending on the boss, what legit interests they have, the overall state of the family at the time, etc.

At this point, a guy like Bellomo seems to be doing the smart thing. Had to do some significant time but has invested his money and has legitimate income streams now and property worth millions. He's the boss but at least apparently seems to be staying in the background as much as one can these days. I imagine the feds would love nothing more than to get him on something.

By the way, in those videos, gotta love Alite's obligatory political rants and Gene's obsession over the word "caporegime." I am looking forward to Arilotta's book. Should be interesting.

Bellomo and Cefalu have been ghosts since they've been bosses and out of prison, think it was a gangland article that said they picked. Bellomo up on surveillance like once or something, will have to read it back.

[newera_212]

He said he only took monthly tribute from some Capos. So for others they only paid a Christmas tribute.


Pogo

damn. do you think that was more altruism and “letting his guys earn”, or more of him simply just wanting to limit exposure and limit him and vitale meeting with certain guys? everyone has their reasons, but im just trying to figure out why he’d potentially leave a decent amount of money on the table like that every month

do we have an example of a capo who was known to be a big money guy that fell into the “only at Christmas” category? from what i understood Coppa and Canterella were some of the family’s best earning capos.

[CabriniGreen]

Even the Zottola guy had 30 or 40 million in property off the poker machines.... wasnt even a made guy..

[Pogo The Clown]

damn. do you think that was more altruism and “letting his guys earn”, or more of him simply just wanting to limit exposure and limit him and vitale meeting with certain guys? everyone has their reasons, but im just trying to figure out why he’d potentially leave a decent amount of money on the table like that every month

do we have an example of a capo who was known to be a big money guy that fell into the “only at Christmas” category? from what i understood Coppa and Canterella were some of the family’s best earning capos.

I very much doubt any of these guys act in an altruistic manner. It's likely a combination of limiting his exposure like you said and wanting to buy the support and loyalty of the members by not taxing them too much. Sort of like how Joe Cammarano Jr tried to gain the support of the Capos by giving them interest free loans.


Pogo

[CabriniGreen]

How about a guy like Crea with the construction?
Or Calis produce businesses?

[CabriniGreen]

You guys think this is accurate?

https://www.ansa.it/english/news/genera ... 6dfc7.html

[scagghiuni]

You guys think this is accurate?

https://www.ansa.it/english/news/genera ... 6dfc7.html

yes they are official government numbers not estimates or speculations, no suprise, they seized 4 billions only from messina denaro frontmen in the latest years

[CabriniGreen]

You guys think this is accurate?

https://www.ansa.it/english/news/genera ... 6dfc7.html

yes they are official government numbers not estimates or speculations, no suprise, they seized 4 billions only from messina denaro frontmen in the latest years

This really puts things into perspective.......

[CabriniGreen]

Has the G come close to seizing such amounts from the American CN, even the last TWENTY years?

Serious question....

[Peppermint]

damn. do you think that was more altruism and “letting his guys earn”, or more of him simply just wanting to limit exposure and limit him and vitale meeting with certain guys? everyone has their reasons, but im just trying to figure out why he’d potentially leave a decent amount of money on the table like that every month

do we have an example of a capo who was known to be a big money guy that fell into the “only at Christmas” category? from what i understood Coppa and Canterella were some of the family’s best earning capos.

I very much doubt any of these guys act in an altruistic manner. It's likely a combination of limiting his exposure like you said and wanting to buy the support and loyalty of the members by not taxing them too much. Sort of like how Joe Cammarano Jr tried to gain the support of the Capos by giving them interest free loans.


Pogo

I could argue that is a form of altruism. Altruistic actions, with ulterior intentions. Similar to when a billionaire donates a couple million to a charity, it’s all for image and influence, if they really cared they’d use their billions to actually make a solution. I could argue here the situation is the same, being altruistic to gain support and loyalty, when they could cancel the debts to be nice the ulterior intention is the former. But that doesn’t make it not altruistic in nature, just ulteriorly motivated.

[Southshore88]

Now we are going to the other extreme. If a boss of still the most powerful mafia family in the country isn't making at least a few million annually, he could as well throw in the towel and disband the organization.

What do you fellas think the top bosses are pulling in these days?

So let’s do the math for Massino’s earnings. As an example let’s take the year 2000 when the Feds said the Bonannos were the #2 family in NY (and therefore in the country).

Weekly vig from Vitale and Massino’s loanshark book – up to $9000 = 432,000 (split with Vitale and likely others)

His sports book 10,000-12,000 from a week (so some weeks it was less) = 480,000-576,000 max (split with Vitale and likely others)

8,000 a month in video poker = 96,000

4,000 a year from that electrician (split with Anthony Mannone) = 2,000
150,000-160,000 Christmas tribute

Capo monthly tributes:
Coppa = 2,000-6,500 = 24,000-78,000 a year
Cantarella = 1,200-1,500 = 14,000-18,000 a year
Urso = 500-600 = 6,000-7,200 a year
DeFilippo = 2,000 = 24,000 a year

Yearly total = 1,228,000-1,393,200

Adjusted for inflation in 2000 dollars = 1,841,000-2,088,000 today. Though of course it will be a lot less since we know that sports betting and loansharking money was being split with Vitale and possibly others involved.

We don’t know what some of his other Capos were giving him but we know he didn’t take tribute from all of them. Considering what his top Capos were giving him it couldn’t have mounted too much to make that big a difference in the total.

Considering how much stronger LCN was 20 years ago I'd seriously doubt any Boss today is pulling in 3 million a year. Even 2 million a year is a big stretch.


Pogo

I’m not saying he was profiting $10M a year but there does appear to be areas of the family business that were omitted or not discussed in testimony - specifically drugs and stock fraud through pump & dump schemes.

The B’s were also a family notorious for drug dealing. Obviously there is no evidence that Massino was ever involved directly, but are you saying he never profited from drugs as boss? According to his to his own testimony, there were soldiers in his family he had never met before.

In addition to cash from drugs, wasn’t this during the same time period of those pump & dump stock/fraud schemes that Bobby Lino Jr. was involved with?

Just because those weren’t the topics of the testimony and wasn’t discussed, it doesn’t mean that it never happened. It would be interesting to see Massino’s testimony with other soldiers/capos who had different revenue streams coming in to see what he discussed for $$ during those trials.

[newera_212]

Now we are going to the other extreme. If a boss of still the most powerful mafia family in the country isn't making at least a few million annually, he could as well throw in the towel and disband the organization.

What do you fellas think the top bosses are pulling in these days?

So let’s do the math for Massino’s earnings. As an example let’s take the year 2000 when the Feds said the Bonannos were the #2 family in NY (and therefore in the country).

Weekly vig from Vitale and Massino’s loanshark book – up to $9000 = 432,000 (split with Vitale and likely others)

His sports book 10,000-12,000 from a week (so some weeks it was less) = 480,000-576,000 max (split with Vitale and likely others)

8,000 a month in video poker = 96,000

4,000 a year from that electrician (split with Anthony Mannone) = 2,000
150,000-160,000 Christmas tribute

Capo monthly tributes:
Coppa = 2,000-6,500 = 24,000-78,000 a year
Cantarella = 1,200-1,500 = 14,000-18,000 a year
Urso = 500-600 = 6,000-7,200 a year
DeFilippo = 2,000 = 24,000 a year

Yearly total = 1,228,000-1,393,200

Adjusted for inflation in 2000 dollars = 1,841,000-2,088,000 today. Though of course it will be a lot less since we know that sports betting and loansharking money was being split with Vitale and possibly others involved.

We don’t know what some of his other Capos were giving him but we know he didn’t take tribute from all of them. Considering what his top Capos were giving him it couldn’t have mounted too much to make that big a difference in the total.

Considering how much stronger LCN was 20 years ago I'd seriously doubt any Boss today is pulling in 3 million a year. Even 2 million a year is a big stretch.


Pogo

I’m not saying he was profiting $10M a year but there does appear to be areas of the family business that were omitted or not discussed in testimony - specifically drugs and stock fraud through pump & dump schemes.

The B’s were also a family notorious for drug dealing. Obviously there is no evidence that Massino was ever involved directly, but are you saying he never profited from drugs as boss? According to his to his own testimony, there were soldiers in his family he had never met before.

In addition to cash from drugs, wasn’t this during the same time period of those pump & dump stock/fraud schemes that Bobby Lino Jr. was involved with?

Just because those weren’t the topics of the testimony and wasn’t discussed, it doesn’t mean that it never happened. It would be interesting to see Massino’s testimony with other soldiers/capos who had different revenue streams coming in to see what he discussed for $$ during those trials.

Outside of Lino Junior, Coppa was probably had the 2nd largest 'involvement' in stock scams in the family during that time. So if Coppa was kicking up a couple G's a month, give or take, than it sounds like he was probably keeping the lion's share - which was by some accounts pretty big. Besides controlling the chop houses themselves, him and his son started a fast food "chain" (I think it was one registered address) just to do an IPO and rip the stock through the chop house he controlled. On top of that, he was extorting a couple Brokers, and also taxing brokers and other people involved with the stock shit to settle disputes amongst each other and rival brokerages. Sounds like he was keeping Massino happy though - doing things on a sliding scale monthly like that is smart too. "Oh it was a great month this month, here's 7 grand" when he's cracking the Brokers for $30g's a piece ... LOL

Speaking of him, his son is still made and still involved with the family? He's alleged to 'control' a lot of Manhattan parking garages and lots... does anyone know which company he runs? Because there's only maybe half a dozen ... maybe even less... in the city that have all the garages

[newera_212]

Also, I know the whole point of the thread in general is to highlight how 'average' the money these guys pull down really is, especially in comparison to what we've seen in the past and what's shown in the media and on movies.

But still...

By the time Massino was in boss mode, full swing, and pulling in that $1.8 - $2 MM / year - he really wasn't doing much at all. Hanging out at his restaurant, and meeting guys under his own terms - making them come to him - to pass orders and settle disputes. I know he risked a lot and put in work to get to that point, but $2MM/year clean, untaxed, for almost doing nothing isn't bad. Even if he was taking and making less money, Massino put himself in position to have his day to day be a lot easier than the bosses who came before him (from what it sounds like)

[Extortion]

Also, I know the whole point of the thread in general is to highlight how 'average' the money these guys pull down really is, especially in comparison to what we've seen in the past and what's shown in the media and on movies.

But still...

By the time Massino was in boss mode, full swing, and pulling in that $1.8 - $2 MM / year - he really wasn't doing much at all. Hanging out at his restaurant, and meeting guys under his own terms - making them come to him - to pass orders and settle disputes. I know he risked a lot and put in work to get to that point, but $2MM/year clean, untaxed, for almost doing nothing isn't bad. Even if he was taking and making less money, Massino put himself in position to have his day to day be a lot easier than the bosses who came before him (from what it sounds like)

Presidents of medium sized banks make around $2m a year. Have a family friend who is the CEO of peoples bank and his salary is give or take $1.5-2.5Million a year with bonuses