Boss Earnings

[The Greek]

Your dreaming if you think any LCN boss today is earning 200-300 million a year. Even 30 million a year is fantasy.


Pogo

Even 3 million is a fantasy

[Wiseguy]

That is not accurate. It has been documented that Vincent Gigante did not take tribute from every Capo in his family. As an example Arilotta just talked about how the Springfield Crew did not send tribute to NY. We also have other informant terimony that for years the Montreal Crew did pay any tribute either. So that is at least two families were we have confirmation that not every Captain was required to pay tribute.
If we want to outside NY we have the example of Harry Riccobene not being required to pay tribute to Angelo Bruno except for a Christmas tribute.

I was waiting for someone to raise the Genovese example . I’m highly suspicious of this claim, would like to know the source and suspect there is misinterpretation involved. That there may have been the odd Capo whom, for whatever reason, did not pay monthly or regular tribute I can understand, but that I would suggest would be an exception, and an uncommon one which I think has been overblown.

Look at this logically, what is the primary function of a mafia family? To quote Tony Soprano “This is a business” and the structure of a family is such that it’s a pyramid. It would be as nonsensical for Capo’s not to kick up as standard practice as soldiers not kicking up. It’s antithetical to the principle and structure of the model itself.

Of course there are exceptions but the mafia is a business, these are greedy fucks, the structure of the model contradicts this as common practice, Massino is a liar (refer his Sonny Black was making a move for boss garbage) and Massino has huge motivation (he understates his income, the less can be seized in forfeiture) to lie.

So, I think Massino = Bull. Shit.

Chin not taking money off many of his captains after a certain point is true. He didn't need it.

But, while I haven't had time to watch the interview yet, I'm skeptical of Arilotta's claim they didn't send money to New York. One reason Bruno was killed, aside from fears he was informing, was because he wasn't sending enough money to the NY leadership. And according to Arilotta's own sentecing memorandum, a big reason for his rise in the crew was because he was known as an earner. Also according to the memorandum, Nigro told Arilotta to increase the shakedowns of local businesses, the money from which was shared with Nigro.

Furthermore, besides Bruno, Arilotta and the Geas brothers also shot and wounded a Mason Tenders Union official, on Nigro's orders, after he dispensed union jobs without first consulting Nigro. Are we supposed to believe these guys were allowed to run around Springfield under the Genovese name, do hits for a one-time acting boss of the family, but not send any tribute?

Don't think so.

Even 3 million is a fantasy

Wouldn't necessarily go that far.

[Pete]

Your dreaming if you think any LCN boss today is earning 200-300 million a year. Even 30 million a year is fantasy.


Pogo

Even 3 million is a fantasy

The only way I see it is a boss with a ton of legit stuff like a Barney. 3 million for one guy from oc alone is not believable. What did Sammy say gotti made a year I can’t recall but I think his family said when he went away he had 12 million supposedly but that’s doubtful. He spent as fast as he made. Even in the 80’s when leonetti took scarfos Safe wasn’t there like 1.5 in there and that was amassed over years

[Pete]

That is not accurate. It has been documented that Vincent Gigante did not take tribute from every Capo in his family. As an example Arilotta just talked about how the Springfield Crew did not send tribute to NY. We also have other informant terimony that for years the Montreal Crew did pay any tribute either. So that is at least two families were we have confirmation that not every Captain was required to pay tribute.
If we want to outside NY we have the example of Harry Riccobene not being required to pay tribute to Angelo Bruno except for a Christmas tribute.

I was waiting for someone to raise the Genovese example . I’m highly suspicious of this claim, would like to know the source and suspect there is misinterpretation involved. That there may have been the odd Capo whom, for whatever reason, did not pay monthly or regular tribute I can understand, but that I would suggest would be an exception, and an uncommon one which I think has been overblown.

Look at this logically, what is the primary function of a mafia family? To quote Tony Soprano “This is a business” and the structure of a family is such that it’s a pyramid. It would be as nonsensical for Capo’s not to kick up as standard practice as soldiers not kicking up. It’s antithetical to the principle and structure of the model itself.

Of course there are exceptions but the mafia is a business, these are greedy fucks, the structure of the model contradicts this as common practice, Massino is a liar (refer his Sonny Black was making a move for boss garbage) and Massino has huge motivation (he understates his income, the less can be seized in forfeiture) to lie.

So, I think Massino = Bull. Shit.

Chin not taking money off many of his captains after a certain point is true. He didn't need it.

But, while I haven't had time to watch the interview yet, I'm skeptical of Arilotta's claim they didn't send money to New York. One reason Bruno was killed, aside from fears he was informing, was because he wasn't sending enough money to the NY leadership. And according to Arilotta's own sentecing memorandum, a big reason for his rise in the crew was because he was known as an earner. Also according to the memorandum, Nigro told Arilotta to increase the shakedowns of local businesses, the money from which was shared with Nigro.

Furthermore, besides Bruno, Arilotta and the Geas brothers also shot and wounded a Mason Tenders Union official, on Nigro's orders, after he dispensed union jobs without first consulting Nigro. Are we supposed to believe these guys were allowed to run around Springfield under the Genovese name, do hits for a one-time acting boss of the family, but not send any tribute?

Don't think so.

Even 3 million is a fantasy

Wouldn't necessarily go that far.

Depends on the boss. Gigante was known for only taking tribute from certain guys and wasn’t greedy where he took a ton

[SonnyBlackstein]

So in other words you have nothing to refute what all these made members have said.

What’s your opinion on Joe Cammarano Jr. giving interest-free loans to the rest of the crime family from the family’s reserve fund?

I’m not saying every Capo kicks up in every circumstance. I’ll happily concede there are exceptions.

But to say that it’s common, or policy or the norm, contradicts the basic model of LCN.

And I think Massino’s full of shit.

(And regards Cammarano? Obviously it was to curry favour and unify the family under his new leadership. Not because he was feeling warm and fuzzy, c’mon).

[TallGuy19]

When Anthony Corallo was boss of the Luccheses the Jersey crew was only sending him a tribute payment of $10,000 per year, if I remember correctly. When Amuso and Casso took over they started demanding regular tribute payments, and when the crew refused to pay Casso ordered them all killed. That's where the infamous "whack Jersey" quote comes from.

[gohnjotti]

(And regards Cammarano? Obviously it was to curry favour and unify the family under his new leadership. Not because he was feeling warm and fuzzy, c’mon).

Exactly. Nobody here is saying Massino was being charitable by not asking for tribute. Every leader has a different reason for doing what they do. In the Colombo family’s case, I suspect that the Persico admin wasn’t really in a position to demand any sort of clear-cut tribute in the mid-1990s, when the family was on its last legs and desperately attempting to re-unify. And, evidently, that policy stayed that way because I don’t think it would’ve gone down favourably if Joel Cacace or Tommy Gioeli or whoever suddenly turned around and started taxing the captains left and right.

That isn’t to say the Colombo admin post-1993 wasn’t greedy. The Claw Castellazzo was/is infamously greedy. They just found different ways to circumnavigate the rule and shake down their underlings without necessarily having to outright ask for a tribute. Hell, the Colombo admin were collecting “protection money” from associates’ like Johnny Cash Azzarelli from the 1990s all the way through 2010.

The traditional “kicking up” process from associate-to-soldier or soldier-to-capo is still around, by the looks of things. That is definitely still commonplace, and varies dramatically from crew to crew and how the captain/soldier in charge enforces it. Just like how individual bosses choose to enforce it, although it’s a lot harder to enforce in the 90s/2000s atmosphere of disorganisation, temporary/“acting” positions at the admin level, various changes in power, or various factions and power struggles. Just my two cents, trying to make sense of the information at hand.

[Wiseguy]

When Anthony Corallo was boss of the Luccheses the Jersey crew was only sending him a tribute payment of $10,000 per year, if I remember correctly. When Amuso and Casso took over they started demanding regular tribute payments, and when the crew refused to pay Casso ordered them all killed. That's where the infamous "whack Jersey" quote comes from.

If I remember right, Amuso and Casso supposely wanted 50% of the Jersey crew's income.

As Hesh said, it was a reasonable request but an unreasonable figure.

[Pogo The Clown]

When Anthony Corallo was boss of the Luccheses the Jersey crew was only sending him a tribute payment of $10,000 per year, if I remember correctly. When Amuso and Casso took over they started demanding regular tribute payments, and when the crew refused to pay Casso ordered them all killed. That's where the infamous "whack Jersey" quote comes from.

Yeah that is another example that I completely forgot about. So this is 5 families were we have documented cases of this happening.


Same thing happened in Philly with Riccobene. Bruno only took a Christmas tribute but Scarfo wanted regular tribute and Riccobene balked. So we see it all depends on the whims of whoever the Boss is at given time.


Pogo

[TallGuy19]

When Anthony Corallo was boss of the Luccheses the Jersey crew was only sending him a tribute payment of $10,000 per year, if I remember correctly. When Amuso and Casso took over they started demanding regular tribute payments, and when the crew refused to pay Casso ordered them all killed. That's where the infamous "whack Jersey" quote comes from.

If I remember right, Amuso and Casso supposely wanted 50% of the Jersey crew's income.

As Hesh said, it was a reasonable request but an unreasonable figure.

If they hadn't been so greedy they probably could have gotten 10–15% and avoided that whole situation. It's better to ask for 10% and receive 10% than to ask for 50% and get a rebellion.

[Bklyn21]

That is not accurate. It has been documented that Vincent Gigante did not take tribute from every Capo in his family. As an example Arilotta just talked about how the Springfield Crew did not send tribute to NY. We also have other informant terimony that for years the Montreal Crew did pay any tribute either. So that is at least two families were we have confirmation that not every Captain was required to pay tribute.
If we want to outside NY we have the example of Harry Riccobene not being required to pay tribute to Angelo Bruno except for a Christmas tribute.

I was waiting for someone to raise the Genovese example . I’m highly suspicious of this claim, would like to know the source and suspect there is misinterpretation involved. That there may have been the odd Capo whom, for whatever reason, did not pay monthly or regular tribute I can understand, but that I would suggest would be an exception, and an uncommon one which I think has been overblown.

Look at this logically, what is the primary function of a mafia family? To quote Tony Soprano “This is a business” and the structure of a family is such that it’s a pyramid. It would be as nonsensical for Capo’s not to kick up as standard practice as soldiers not kicking up. It’s antithetical to the principle and structure of the model itself.

Of course there are exceptions but the mafia is a business, these are greedy fucks, the structure of the model contradicts this as common practice, Massino is a liar (refer his Sonny Black was making a move for boss garbage) and Massino has huge motivation (he understates his income, the less can be seized in forfeiture) to lie.

So, I think Massino = Bull. Shit.

Chin not taking money off many of his captains after a certain point is true. He didn't need it.

But, while I haven't had time to watch the interview yet, I'm skeptical of Arilotta's claim they didn't send money to New York. One reason Bruno was killed, aside from fears he was informing, was because he wasn't sending enough money to the NY leadership. And according to Arilotta's own sentecing memorandum, a big reason for his rise in the crew was because he was known as an earner. Also according to the memorandum, Nigro told Arilotta to increase the shakedowns of local businesses, the money from which was shared with Nigro.

Furthermore, besides Bruno, Arilotta and the Geas brothers also shot and wounded a Mason Tenders Union official, on Nigro's orders, after he dispensed union jobs without first consulting Nigro. Are we supposed to believe these guys were allowed to run around Springfield under the Genovese name, do hits for a one-time acting boss of the family, but not send any tribute?

Don't think so.

Even 3 million is a fantasy

Wouldn't necessarily go that far.

Depends on the boss. Gigante was known for only taking tribute from certain guys and wasn’t greedy where he took a ton

IMO I agree Pete , Depending on the family and bosses some of these guys are still today making mind blowing numbers ! Vincent Esposito for example was busted in a 20 plus million dollar Townhouse with what ? 5 Mil. In Cash ? That's probably a drop in the bucket ! That guy is loaded beyond belief and IMO is probably worth a quarter of a Billion or even more in illegitimate and legitimate business and enterprises and investments . Now imagine and picture what Barney is worth ! He's involved in numerous industries of all kinds and all over the U.S. among other places .Now I have no clue what he's worth and either does any of us but he can probably buy small nations and 3rd world countries and build them up and profit immensely ! Just my opinion

[chubby]

That is not accurate. It has been documented that Vincent Gigante did not take tribute from every Capo in his family. As an example Arilotta just talked about how the Springfield Crew did not send tribute to NY. We also have other informant terimony that for years the Montreal Crew did pay any tribute either. So that is at least two families were we have confirmation that not every Captain was required to pay tribute.
If we want to outside NY we have the example of Harry Riccobene not being required to pay tribute to Angelo Bruno except for a Christmas tribute.

I was waiting for someone to raise the Genovese example . I’m highly suspicious of this claim, would like to know the source and suspect there is misinterpretation involved. That there may have been the odd Capo whom, for whatever reason, did not pay monthly or regular tribute I can understand, but that I would suggest would be an exception, and an uncommon one which I think has been overblown.

Look at this logically, what is the primary function of a mafia family? To quote Tony Soprano “This is a business” and the structure of a family is such that it’s a pyramid. It would be as nonsensical for Capo’s not to kick up as standard practice as soldiers not kicking up. It’s antithetical to the principle and structure of the model itself.

Of course there are exceptions but the mafia is a business, these are greedy fucks, the structure of the model contradicts this as common practice, Massino is a liar (refer his Sonny Black was making a move for boss garbage) and Massino has huge motivation (he understates his income, the less can be seized in forfeiture) to lie.

So, I think Massino = Bull. Shit.

Chin not taking money off many of his captains after a certain point is true. He didn't need it.

But, while I haven't had time to watch the interview yet, I'm skeptical of Arilotta's claim they didn't send money to New York. One reason Bruno was killed, aside from fears he was informing, was because he wasn't sending enough money to the NY leadership. And according to Arilotta's own sentecing memorandum, a big reason for his rise in the crew was because he was known as an earner. Also according to the memorandum, Nigro told Arilotta to increase the shakedowns of local businesses, the money from which was shared with Nigro.

Furthermore, besides Bruno, Arilotta and the Geas brothers also shot and wounded a Mason Tenders Union official, on Nigro's orders, after he dispensed union jobs without first consulting Nigro. Are we supposed to believe these guys were allowed to run around Springfield under the Genovese name, do hits for a one-time acting boss of the family, but not send any tribute?

Don't think so.

Even 3 million is a fantasy

Wouldn't necessarily go that far.

I also do not believe for a second that the Springfield crew was not kicking up.... you’re trying to tell me Nigro put that much time and effort into dealing with that crew, and risking the rest of his life in prison if caught for giving the nod to hit Bruno (which he did)... there’s no way Nigro would have had such a keen interest on that crew if he wasn’t profiting off it/ wanting to obviously profit even more, hence getting rid of Bruno and putting his loyal soldier Arilotta in the skipper seat... that whole Bruno shit was a shady ass power move by Nigro and arrilotta, fusco, ect.

[chubby]

That is not accurate. It has been documented that Vincent Gigante did not take tribute from every Capo in his family. As an example Arilotta just talked about how the Springfield Crew did not send tribute to NY. We also have other informant terimony that for years the Montreal Crew did pay any tribute either. So that is at least two families were we have confirmation that not every Captain was required to pay tribute.
If we want to outside NY we have the example of Harry Riccobene not being required to pay tribute to Angelo Bruno except for a Christmas tribute.

I was waiting for someone to raise the Genovese example . I’m highly suspicious of this claim, would like to know the source and suspect there is misinterpretation involved. That there may have been the odd Capo whom, for whatever reason, did not pay monthly or regular tribute I can understand, but that I would suggest would be an exception, and an uncommon one which I think has been overblown.

Look at this logically, what is the primary function of a mafia family? To quote Tony Soprano “This is a business” and the structure of a family is such that it’s a pyramid. It would be as nonsensical for Capo’s not to kick up as standard practice as soldiers not kicking up. It’s antithetical to the principle and structure of the model itself.

Of course there are exceptions but the mafia is a business, these are greedy fucks, the structure of the model contradicts this as common practice, Massino is a liar (refer his Sonny Black was making a move for boss garbage) and Massino has huge motivation (he understates his income, the less can be seized in forfeiture) to lie.

So, I think Massino = Bull. Shit.

Chin not taking money off many of his captains after a certain point is true. He didn't need it.

But, while I haven't had time to watch the interview yet, I'm skeptical of Arilotta's claim they didn't send money to New York. One reason Bruno was killed, aside from fears he was informing, was because he wasn't sending enough money to the NY leadership. And according to Arilotta's own sentecing memorandum, a big reason for his rise in the crew was because he was known as an earner. Also according to the memorandum, Nigro told Arilotta to increase the shakedowns of local businesses, the money from which was shared with Nigro.

Furthermore, besides Bruno, Arilotta and the Geas brothers also shot and wounded a Mason Tenders Union official, on Nigro's orders, after he dispensed union jobs without first consulting Nigro. Are we supposed to believe these guys were allowed to run around Springfield under the Genovese name, do hits for a one-time acting boss of the family, but not send any tribute?

Don't think so.

Even 3 million is a fantasy

Wouldn't necessarily go that far.

I also do not believe for a second that the Springfield crew was not kicking up.... you’re trying to tell me Nigro put that much time and effort into dealing with that crew, and risking the rest of his life in prison if caught for giving the nod to hit Bruno (which he did)... there’s no way Nigro would have had such a keen interest on that crew if he wasn’t profiting off it/ wanting to obviously profit even more, hence getting rid of Bruno and putting his loyal soldier Arilotta in the skipper seat... that whole Bruno shit was a shady ass power move by Nigro and arrilotta, fusco, ect.

Also it was very apparent when rooster got busted that Springfield was kicking up to him... and I highly doubt that’s something they just decided to implement in like the last 5 years, or after the Bruno murder/Arilotta flipping....

[Peppermint]

In another thread, discussing illegal gambling in Ohio. Brooklyn21 mentioned gambling in Pennsylvania.

I mentioned that prior to the pandemic the legal gambling industry was booming, and to keep it short I mentioned that every month I would go there new hotel/casinos were propping up left and right.

My question that pertains to all this is: does anyone think any of these crews and their bosses be bringing in enough money to invest in and run casinos like the Outfit did back in the day in Las Vegas?

[MightyDR]

I'm looking over Valachi's testimony and he implies that there was no real tribute policy in the Genovese family. He seems to have been able to operate his businesses without kicking up. However, he says most soldiers go into business with their captain and then cut them in. Later on he says Vito Genovese made his money as boss from interests in various rackets but not that he was also receiving tribute.

See what you guys think. He starts talking about it around page 110.
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=yxJ ... &q&f=false