Boss Earnings

[Pogo The Clown]

Your dreaming if you think any LCN boss today is earning 200-300 million a year. Even 30 million a year is fantasy.


Pogo

[queensnyer]

how much was paul castellano worth?

[Confederate]

The posting of Massino's testimony got me thinking how little modern Bosses are actually pulling in.


From the tidbits posted by B.

Massino received around $150,000 - 160,000 in Christmas tribute from the family. As mentioned earlier, he said members were supposed to pay $1000 in Christmas tribute if they were able, so the total is consistent with his estimate that the Bonanno family had 150 - 160 members under him.

- He says only some captains paid monthly tribute to him, including Coppa ($2000), Cantarella ($1200), Urso ($500-600), and $500 a week from DeFilippo from a bookmaking business split with Vitale. This shows that the "kicking up" process wasn't as strict as people believe and in some cases involved the boss being a partner in an operation, not necessarily vertical tribute. There were other operations Massino inherited when he became boss of the family, including JFK airport activities and an electrician who paid $4000 a year to prevent union intervention. Anthony Mannone handled this for Massino and they split the money.

Add up all his tribute and he is not even close to pulling in a million a year. Probably not even half a million some years. I'm sure he could have gotten a little more by pressing some Capos but it is still crap considering he was the Boss of the number 3 or 2 family in the country. These low earnings are confirmed by Joe Defede who testified he only made 1.2 million during his time (1994-1998) as Acting Boss of the Lucchese family. Really this is peanuts even adjusted for inflation. Bosses today definitely don't have that Don Corleone money.


Pogo

I personally think some of the Kicking up info and estimates are pure BS ! Even though they are outted and cannot lie to the Feds I think they don't give them official and accurate records because then they'd have to give up more money and assets to the Feds . I was also told this years ago by people on both sides of the fence, Ex: Law enforcement and Mob guys . They said that's pure Bullshit and that Bosses, Members , Associates lie to preserve some of they're earnings and savings etc etc..

That may be true. But the numbers being thrown around by people guessing about the "personal" earnings of some of these guys & their "personal" net worth are generally unverified, incomplete, inaccurate, no difference between gross & net, no mention of partners involved who take over their share when they die or go to jail for life, no mention of the Feds confiscation, etc. etc. which makes the numbers slowly become a bunch of gross exaggerations. As far as a guy lying about how much money was "kicked" up to him, that could be true. The Feds would have to accept his word for it.

[Confederate]

how much was paul castellano worth?

Nobody knows so why even ask such a question? All it does is give some people a chance to make hugely gross unverified exaggerations for all the reason previously stated. You might as well ask how many times did Castellano have sex with his wife per month. Same kind of question.

[JCB1977]

how much was paul castellano worth?

Nobody knows so why even ask such a question? All it does is give some people a chance to make hugely gross unverified exaggerations for all the reason previously stated. You might as well ask how many times did Castellano have sex with his wife per month. Same kind of question.

While we will never get 100% accurate numbers, we can draw from Feds seizure, inventory of assets, informant testimony and court cases that involve forensic accounting. As a gauge, not a definitive number.

[gohnjotti]

The posting of Massino's testimony got me thinking how little modern Bosses are actually pulling in.


From the tidbits posted by B.

Massino received around $150,000 - 160,000 in Christmas tribute from the family. As mentioned earlier, he said members were supposed to pay $1000 in Christmas tribute if they were able, so the total is consistent with his estimate that the Bonanno family had 150 - 160 members under him.

- He says only some captains paid monthly tribute to him, including Coppa ($2000), Cantarella ($1200), Urso ($500-600), and $500 a week from DeFilippo from a bookmaking business split with Vitale. This shows that the "kicking up" process wasn't as strict as people believe and in some cases involved the boss being a partner in an operation, not necessarily vertical tribute. There were other operations Massino inherited when he became boss of the family, including JFK airport activities and an electrician who paid $4000 a year to prevent union intervention. Anthony Mannone handled this for Massino and they split the money.

Add up all his tribute and he is not even close to pulling in a million a year. Probably not even half a million some years. I'm sure he could have gotten a little more by pressing some Capos but it is still crap considering he was the Boss of the number 3 or 2 family in the country. These low earnings are confirmed by Joe Defede who testified he only made 1.2 million during his time (1994-1998) as Acting Boss of the Lucchese family. Really this is peanuts even adjusted for inflation. Bosses today definitely don't have that Don Corleone money.


Pogo

I personally think some of the Kicking up info and estimates are pure BS ! Even though they are outted and cannot lie to the Feds I think they don't give them official and accurate records because then they'd have to give up more money and assets to the Feds . I was also told this years ago by people on both sides of the fence, Ex: Law enforcement and Mob guys . They said that's pure Bullshit and that Bosses, Members , Associates lie to preserve some of they're earnings and savings etc etc..

Correct, a mob guy’s income is the hardest to calculate, because they live on the day-to-day. Not pay check to pay check, or month to month, but day-to-day. They’re pure opportunists.

[TallGuy19]

Is there any other testimony to confirm or refute Massino's numbers? Did Frank Coppa or any of the other Bonanno capos who cooperated ever give details on how much was being kicked up?

[queensnyer]

how much was paul castellano worth?

Nobody knows so why even ask such a question? All it does is give some people a chance to make hugely gross unverified exaggerations for all the reason previously stated. You might as well ask how many times did Castellano have sex with his wife per month. Same kind of question.

so why make the thread????? I ask cause paul obviously was very rich as opposed to those who say bosses don't get paid...also I guarantee his captains where kicking up

[MightyDR]

The money mentioned by Joey Massino in that testimony wasn't his total income as boss, just examples of money he was receiving. He also said he was receiving income from Joker Poker machines and baccarat, but doesn't mention how much. Still, I was taken back by the measly amounts being kicked up.

Looks like he admitted to making $25m throughout his entire career:
https://nypost.com/2012/11/26/mob-boss- ... -at-trial/

[gohnjotti]

Wasn't Massino getting a few grand a month from soldier Vito Grimaldi?

[SonnyBlackstein]

That is 4 major families where we have verified documentation of the Boss selectively collecting tribute from his crews.

You’re right. Massino was just doing charity work as boss.
Chin too.

LCN charity workers. Probably so they could claim it as a deductible come April 15th.

[SonnyBlackstein]

They’re pure opportunists.

But not when it comes to collecting your kick it seems

[MightyDR]

In Raab’s 5 Families, based off Vitale and the captain’s testimonies, the money is a bit bigger, but still pretty similar.

Weekly vig from Vitale and Massino’s loanshark book – up to $9000
A good week for their sports gambling operation - $10,000 to $12,000.
Frank Coppa - $6500 a month and $20,000 at Xmas.
Richard Cantarella - $1500 a month and $25,000 at Xmas.
Canadians sent $15,000 at Xmas.
Louie Tartaglione says he gave Massino $150,000 over two decades.
10 percent of all earnings from Joker Poker. Frank Lino made as much as $40,000 a week.

[Pogo The Clown]

That is 4 major families where we have verified documentation of the Boss selectively collecting tribute from his crews.

You’re right. Massino was just doing charity work as boss.
Chin too.

LCN charity workers. Probably so they could claim it as a deductible come April 15th.

So in other words you have nothing to refute what all these made members have said.


Pogo

[gohnjotti]

That is 4 major families where we have verified documentation of the Boss selectively collecting tribute from his crews.

You’re right. Massino was just doing charity work as boss.
Chin too.

What’s your opinion on Joe Cammarano Jr. giving interest-free loans to the rest of the crime family from the family’s reserve fund?