Confederate wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:21 pm
Al Capone was the most wealthy and the whole gross income for his entire organization in his biggest year was $105 million, meaning that ne netted about $5 million in 1927 dollars before taxes.
$5 million in 1927 dollars is roughly $100 million in today's money, just for comparison.
I think Meyer Lansky might have been telling the truth - or close to it - when he said "I wish I had a million" when someone asked him if he had $300 million.
I actually used the inflation calculator and $5 million in 1927 would be about $72.5 million in 2020. Not bad.
Dollar numbers about gangsters are some of the biggest gross exaggerations I have ever seen & have no "business" sense to them. lol
Capone, for example, had cost of goods, payroll, payoffs to Police, losses from the Feds raiding him sometimes, percentages to partners etc.
Even after that, the guy was extremely successful & lucky not to have been killed.
Cool, thanks for that. Completely forgot about the inflation calculator.
You're right about gangster earnings. The moderately successful ones get to be upper-middle class; the absolute most successful get to be low-level millionaires. Being a gangster isn't about getting rich; it's about getting to live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle without having to do a 9 to 5 job. Very few people realize this and think "getting rich" is what being a gangster is all about. You can get low-level rich being a gangster, but that's not the main point.
I think the situation in Canada is quite different since drugs is their bread and butter. Only the gangsters who are major drug dealers make tens of millions if not more. The Rizzuto family may be worth as much as 100 million.
For sure, I was talking about "traditional" gangsters in the context of the USA specifically.
That said, I'm kind of skeptical of some of the figures given even for the big drug guys, like the $30 billion net worth you hear attributed to Pablo Escobar.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:51 pm
The posting of Massino's testimony got me thinking how little modern Bosses are actually pulling in.
From the tidbits posted by B.
Massino received around $150,000 - 160,000 in Christmas tribute from the family. As mentioned earlier, he said members were supposed to pay $1000 in Christmas tribute if they were able, so the total is consistent with his estimate that the Bonanno family had 150 - 160 members under him.
- He says only some captains paid monthly tribute to him, including Coppa ($2000), Cantarella ($1200), Urso ($500-600), and $500 a week from DeFilippo from a bookmaking business split with Vitale. This shows that the "kicking up" process wasn't as strict as people believe and in some cases involved the boss being a partner in an operation, not necessarily vertical tribute. There were other operations Massino inherited when he became boss of the family, including JFK airport activities and an electrician who paid $4000 a year to prevent union intervention. Anthony Mannone handled this for Massino and they split the money.
Add up all his tribute and he is not even close to pulling in a million a year. Probably not even half a million some years. I'm sure he could have gotten a little more by pressing some Capos but it is still crap considering he was the Boss of the number 3 or 2 family in the country. These low earnings are confirmed by Joe Defede who testified he only made 1.2 million during his time (1994-1998) as Acting Boss of the Lucchese family. Really this is peanuts even adjusted for inflation. Bosses today definitely don't have that Don Corleone money.
Pogo
It’s almost unbelievable to me that his captains were only kicking up 600-$2,000 month. Honestly that seems like peanuts if you ask me... cause not only do most skillets have their own huge shy/sports books, but they also have soldiers and associates kicking up to them... so if that’s really all the skippers were kicking up a month, then Massino was not greedy at all when it came to tribute. Which is hard for me to believe cause massino seemed like a super money hungry, cunning double crosser....
And 1k at Christmas??? I’ve heard in the early 2000s porky was kicking up $250,000 to T.G. alone every Christmas....
TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:26 pm
It makes you wonder why a guy would want to be boss at all. A few thousand dollars a month isnt worth the long prison sentences they usually end up with. I wonder how much an imprisoned boss like Vic Amuso makes per year in tribute payments, and I wonder if he would demand larger payments since he isn't on the street making his own money.
You’re right, the target on your back isn’t worth it.. you’re way better off finding even 1 monster earned you own.. like I mentioned with porky and TG.. but tg had a well balanced crew I’ve heard of monster earners like porky... to straight cold blooded killers who didn’t have 2 pennies to rub together...
"Being a gangster isn't about getting rich; it's about getting to live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle without having to do a 9 to 5 job. Very few people realize this and think "getting rich" is what being a gangster is all about. You can get low-level rich being a gangster, but that's not the main point."
are you kidding me? that's the whole point.. they kill each other over greed not so they don't have to commute to work... I understand different reasoning and some guys have more of thirst for power but im telling you if there was no opportunity to get rich 3/4 of the guys would be gone. a lot of brokesters these days but still. I know guys who have had more $$ go through their hands then 99.5% of legit guys. I know a guy in my area who came up under Massino and Asaro whos currently incarcerated, never spoke about really who has Millions and millions. I know a few guys in my area who have really expensive homes and drive 75K cars, travel, invest and buy up property and businesses like crazy. even Ronnie G has/had millions a mansion around $2mill plus. we will never know how much these guys really have. its so hidden in different areas and mostly untaxed and unaccounted for. the feds cant track it all.
queensnyer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:38 pm
are you kidding me? that's the whole point.. they kill each other over greed not so they don't have to commute to work... I understand different reasoning and some guys have more of thirst for power but im telling you if there was no opportunity to get rich 3/4 of the guys would be gone. a lot of brokesters these days but still. I know guys who have had more $$ go through their hands then 99.5% of legit guys. I know a guy in my area who came up under Massino and Asaro whos currently incarcerated, never spoke about really who has Millions and millions. I know a few guys in my area who have really expensive homes and drive 75K cars, travel, invest and buy up property and businesses like crazy. even Ronnie G has/had millions a mansion around $2mill plus. we will never know how much these guys really have. its so hidden in different areas and mostly untaxed and unaccounted for. the feds cant track it all.
Some of them get rich, but most are basically middle class.
plus remember there are exceptions but most of these guys have 8th grade educations,..they would be sweeping floors for 30k a year without the streets... which is fine and respectable but not to a greedy individual
queensnyer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:38 pm
are you kidding me? that's the whole point.. they kill each other over greed not so they don't have to commute to work... I understand different reasoning and some guys have more of thirst for power but im telling you if there was no opportunity to get rich 3/4 of the guys would be gone. a lot of brokesters these days but still. I know guys who have had more $$ go through their hands then 99.5% of legit guys. I know a guy in my area who came up under Massino and Asaro whos currently incarcerated, never spoke about really who has Millions and millions. I know a few guys in my area who have really expensive homes and drive 75K cars, travel, invest and buy up property and businesses like crazy. even Ronnie G has/had millions a mansion around $2mill plus. we will never know how much these guys really have. its so hidden in different areas and mostly untaxed and unaccounted for. the feds cant track it all.
Some of them get rich, but most are basically middle class.
I don't disagree but the opportunities are there. its 100x harder now then the 70s 80s
queensnyer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:42 pm
plus remember there are exceptions but most of these guys have 8th grade educations,..they would be sweeping floors for 30k a year without the streets... which is fine and respectable but not to a greedy individual
Or a lazy, which I think is a mostly-overlooked but very important part of criminality. I should have mentioned the education thing too because it also goes to what I was saying about getting pretty good money without having to do a boring job. It's also about getting pretty good money without to put effort into school and/or vocational training.
To be fair, it does seem like quite a lot of the younger guys these days do manage to finish high school.
The only old-school mobster I can think of with a high school diploma is Nicky Scarfo.
queensnyer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:38 pm
"Being a gangster isn't about getting rich; it's about getting to live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle without having to do a 9 to 5 job. Very few people realize this and think "getting rich" is what being a gangster is all about. You can get low-level rich being a gangster, but that's not the main point."
are you kidding me? that's the whole point.. they kill each other over greed not so they don't have to commute to work... I understand different reasoning and some guys have more of thirst for power but im telling you if there was no opportunity to get rich 3/4 of the guys would be gone. a lot of brokesters these days but still. I know guys who have had more $$ go through their hands then 99.5% of legit guys. I know a guy in my area who came up under Massino and Asaro whos currently incarcerated, never spoke about really who has Millions and millions. I know a few guys in my area who have really expensive homes and drive 75K cars, travel, invest and buy up property and businesses like crazy. even Ronnie G has/had millions a mansion around $2mill plus. we will never know how much these guys really have. its so hidden in different areas and mostly untaxed and unaccounted for. the feds cant track it all.
Neither can they because it's NOT all their money & when they die or go to jail, either the Feds or their partners take it. This is where all the huge exaggerations come in that you just displayed. It's a short lived bullshit life for 90% of them. The other 10% make a lot of money but end up in Jail anyway like Massino and the Feds & Lawyers take it. It's short lived. 95% would have been way ahead "in the long run" had they done something legit for themselves in their own business & just figured out how not to pay taxes.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:51 pm
The posting of Massino's testimony got me thinking how little modern Bosses are actually pulling in.
From the tidbits posted by B.
Massino received around $150,000 - 160,000 in Christmas tribute from the family. As mentioned earlier, he said members were supposed to pay $1000 in Christmas tribute if they were able, so the total is consistent with his estimate that the Bonanno family had 150 - 160 members under him.
- He says only some captains paid monthly tribute to him, including Coppa ($2000), Cantarella ($1200), Urso ($500-600), and $500 a week from DeFilippo from a bookmaking business split with Vitale. This shows that the "kicking up" process wasn't as strict as people believe and in some cases involved the boss being a partner in an operation, not necessarily vertical tribute. There were other operations Massino inherited when he became boss of the family, including JFK airport activities and an electrician who paid $4000 a year to prevent union intervention. Anthony Mannone handled this for Massino and they split the money.
Add up all his tribute and he is not even close to pulling in a million a year. Probably not even half a million some years. I'm sure he could have gotten a little more by pressing some Capos but it is still crap considering he was the Boss of the number 3 or 2 family in the country. These low earnings are confirmed by Joe Defede who testified he only made 1.2 million during his time (1994-1998) as Acting Boss of the Lucchese family. Really this is peanuts even adjusted for inflation. Bosses today definitely don't have that Don Corleone money.
Pogo
It’s almost unbelievable to me that his captains were only kicking up 600-$2,000 month. Honestly that seems like peanuts if you ask me... cause not only do most skillets have their own huge shy/sports books, but they also have soldiers and associates kicking up to them... so if that’s really all the skippers were kicking up a month, then Massino was not greedy at all when it came to tribute. Which is hard for me to believe cause massino seemed like a super money hungry, cunning double crosser....
And 1k at Christmas??? I’ve heard in the early 2000s porky was kicking up $250,000 to T.G. alone every Christmas....
Yea that’s off. Around that time I was around Joe and John Perna a lot. Different families but same principles. During football and March Madness... forget it. 2000 a month? That’s comical.
Most of you wouldn't be comfortable in my playground.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:51 pm
The posting of Massino's testimony got me thinking how little modern Bosses are actually pulling in.
From the tidbits posted by B.
Massino received around $150,000 - 160,000 in Christmas tribute from the family. As mentioned earlier, he said members were supposed to pay $1000 in Christmas tribute if they were able, so the total is consistent with his estimate that the Bonanno family had 150 - 160 members under him.
- He says only some captains paid monthly tribute to him, including Coppa ($2000), Cantarella ($1200), Urso ($500-600), and $500 a week from DeFilippo from a bookmaking business split with Vitale. This shows that the "kicking up" process wasn't as strict as people believe and in some cases involved the boss being a partner in an operation, not necessarily vertical tribute. There were other operations Massino inherited when he became boss of the family, including JFK airport activities and an electrician who paid $4000 a year to prevent union intervention. Anthony Mannone handled this for Massino and they split the money.
Add up all his tribute and he is not even close to pulling in a million a year. Probably not even half a million some years. I'm sure he could have gotten a little more by pressing some Capos but it is still crap considering he was the Boss of the number 3 or 2 family in the country. These low earnings are confirmed by Joe Defede who testified he only made 1.2 million during his time (1994-1998) as Acting Boss of the Lucchese family. Really this is peanuts even adjusted for inflation. Bosses today definitely don't have that Don Corleone money.
Pogo
It’s almost unbelievable to me that his captains were only kicking up 600-$2,000 month. Honestly that seems like peanuts if you ask me... cause not only do most skillets have their own huge shy/sports books, but they also have soldiers and associates kicking up to them... so if that’s really all the skippers were kicking up a month, then Massino was not greedy at all when it came to tribute. Which is hard for me to believe cause massino seemed like a super money hungry, cunning double crosser....
And 1k at Christmas??? I’ve heard in the early 2000s porky was kicking up $250,000 to T.G. alone every Christmas....
Yea that’s off. Around that time I was around Joe and John Perna a lot. Different families but same principles. During football and March Madness... forget it. 2000 a month? That’s comical.
Right??? I knew I couldn’t be the only one thinking that those numbers were fucking beyond peanuts no matter how care free a boss is about kicking up... for example they said festa/palmaccio was kicking up like 10k a week to Ronnie giallanzo... and festa/palmaccio are soldier..... just no way... imagine what Ronnie was kicking upstairs each week... let alone at Christmas.
Look guys, this is tough for me to articulate and has alot of background to understand where I'm coming from... while the testimony is good and interesting for us to read and truthful in part, i see alot of you getting caught up in the semantics and verbatim of the transcript when its critical for you to remember that this testimony is just the cookie cutter outline necessary to build a case before the triers of fact...
the prosecutors and investigators have already debriefed the witness as to every detail they felt they needed. Therein containing what most of us seek, it's not in the trial transcripts.
The most juicy details never make it onto paper or reports. At least not FBI ones. Just ask Casso. I mean he was believable for the mob cops but not about the feds on his payroll? Straight coverup by corrupt killers with badges.
The prosecutor Argientieri in this case prepped Massino as to the questions that were going to be asked. Along with editing initial practice responses in order to conceal their designs which are ongoing. --->Meaning make sure Massino doesn't say something that will reveal to the defense attorneys active campaigns based on information derived from him and others before, during and after.
(Higher ups admins live right next door to their longtime mob lawyers.)
How many private lawyers and defense attorneys that work for cosa nostra have been turned by the FEDs? Actively informing on their clients.
These prosecutors are a mafia in their own right and in my estimation actually are the overlords of Cosa Nostra - and that statement is not being made lightly. The simple reason is how many leaders in the respective administrations do they control or have someone next to influencing someone in control.
It's all a huge psy op, I realized this over 20 years ago.
Best to all of you in that life today, I hope you find a way out without having to make a deal with the devil.
"People always underestimate me, Don."
<>
"You know what the real difference is between crooks and lawmen, Warden?
queensnyer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:38 pm
"Being a gangster isn't about getting rich; it's about getting to live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle without having to do a 9 to 5 job. Very few people realize this and think "getting rich" is what being a gangster is all about. You can get low-level rich being a gangster, but that's not the main point."
are you kidding me? that's the whole point.. they kill each other over greed not so they don't have to commute to work... I understand different reasoning and some guys have more of thirst for power but im telling you if there was no opportunity to get rich 3/4 of the guys would be gone. a lot of brokesters these days but still. I know guys who have had more $$ go through their hands then 99.5% of legit guys. I know a guy in my area who came up under Massino and Asaro whos currently incarcerated, never spoke about really who has Millions and millions. I know a few guys in my area who have really expensive homes and drive 75K cars, travel, invest and buy up property and businesses like crazy. even Ronnie G has/had millions a mansion around $2mill plus. we will never know how much these guys really have. its so hidden in different areas and mostly untaxed and unaccounted for. the feds cant track it all.
At this point most of the guys on the street even the young guys starting out probably know there is a very small chance they will be multi millionares.Get a young guy who works construction 50+ hours aweek then he goes on the streets makes the same amout selling pills or weed but the diffrence is he doesnt have to wake up at 4am and put in 10 hours and can just sell his weed and play video games most of the day and hang out with his friends,He will see that as a much better deal.
