Understanding Chicago

[Villain]

The Lenny Patrick crew...

This Jewish crew was formed during the mid or late 1930’s in Chicago and this group was completely non-Italian, or at least until the early 1980s. All of the old crew members came from the Lawndale area on the West Side, which in fact used be "home" for 90% of the Jewish population in Chicago at the time, and also a birthplace for few of the most infamous organized crime figures.

As additional info, during its peak, this group was considered one of the most powerful and feared crews within the Chicago Outfit, even among the Italians.

At the beginning, most of the crew members were independent burglars, gamblers and contract killers, but at the start only few of them were connected to the Chicago "Mafia", such as the Yaras brothers Sam and Dave. For example, during the mid and late 1930s, Dave worked as a truck driver for some of the mob controlled unions, while his brother Sam was gambling operator for one Jewish crime boss known as Benjamin Zuckerman, who in turn also had connection to the Italian mob.

Sam Yaras was also connected to another gambling operator and close associate of Zuckerman, known as Joe Epstein.

Zuckerman controlled the whole Lawndale area and the 24th Ward in partnership with the Epsteins childhood friend and the Outfits adviser Jake Guzik and also with one Sicilian Mafioso and also high level member of the Outfit, Lawrence Mangano. So through Zuckerman, the Yaras bros made connections to Epstein, Guzik, Mangano and the Outfit in general.

In 1940, one Lenny Patrick was released from prison and joined the Yaras bros in their gambling ventures under the auspices of Mangano and Zuckerman. According to Patrick's own words, those were the days when he allegedly met important figures such as Paul Ricca.

Ben Zuckerman active (mid 1920s - 1944) crew boss (1935 - 1944) killed (1944)

Crew members (1934 - 1944): Joe and Ben Epstein, Willie Tarsch aka William Galatch, Ben Glazer, Harry Krotish, Dave and Sam Yaras, Leo Friedman, Lenny, Jack and Mike Patrick, William Block, Norton Polsky, David Zatz, Paul Dorfman, John Martin, Jack Ruby (joined the army in 1943), Milton Glickman

In 1944, Mangano allegedly called for Dave Yaras and Lenny Patrick and gave them a deal to eliminate their boss Zuckerman so they can share all of his lucrative gambling operarions and so that same year, Zuckerman was killed by Yaras, Patrick and William Block. After hearing the news, Zuckermans number one guy Ben Glazer died of a heart attack.

But the murders and betrayal didnt stop there since that same year or in August 1944, Mangano was also eliminated on the Outfits orders and some reports say that he was betrayed by his Jewish associates, Yaras and Patrick. Story goes that the Zuckerman hit was unsanctioned by Guzik and the Outfit, so just to save their own skin, Yaras and Patrick betrayed Mangano by saying that he was the one behind the plot and many other plots.

It seems that there was a deal between these fellas and top members of the Outfit such as Jake Guzik and Sam Giancana, to place the whole Lawndale area under the Outfits jurisdiction, and anyone who tried to disagree should be killed. In fact, this was the deal that gave both Yaras and Patrick the power to control all of the gambling ops arpund Lawndale and the licence to kill anyone who stood in their way, thus giving them the image as one of the most murderous crews during those days.

According to reports, by the late 1940s, Joe Epstein shouldve been the boss of the crew and maybe he really was, but the problem was that during this period, Epstein spent most of his time both in Las Vegas and Havana, Cuba, spreading the Outfits influence. In addition, Epstein was the one who infiltrated Virginia Hill into the so-called Bugsy Siegel organization on the west coast.

So by the early 1950s, Joe Epstein was considered the "elder statesman" for the crew, while Dave Yaras was considered the acting boss, but under the auspices of Guzik and Giancanas boss of the West Side Sam Battaglia. In plane words, both Yaras and Patrick belonged to the rising younger generation, while guys like Guzik and Epstein were looked upon as elders.

Dave Yaras active (mid 1930s - 1974) crew boss (1947 - 1956) liasion (1957 - 1974) died (1974)

Crew members (1947 - 1956): Joe and Ben Epstein, Lenny, Jack and Mike Patrick, Sam Yaras, William Block, Paul Dorfman, Edward Murrphy (killed 1950), Ben Olshansky, Harry Krotish (killed 1947), David Zatz (killed 1952), Harry Kovin, Irving Kushner, Harry Levine, Sam Ehrenberg, Leo Friedman (killed 1948), George Stathatos (killed 1948), Norton Polsky (killed 1948), Milton Glickman (killed 1953)

During this period many of the crew's members were killed for keeping cash from the Outfit or for refusing to cooperate. In addition, during the early 1950s, both Yaras and Patrick visited Havana, Cuba; on the orders of both Guzik and Epstein to look after their interests in the casinos or maybe to eliminate few obstacles.

In 1955, Patrick was back in Chicago while Yaras was sent to Florida regarding the Outfits interests in both gambling and union racketeering. In 1957, Giancana became the boss and records show that by 1959, he personally ordered for Patrick to answer directly to Gus Alex, who in turn was the current acting boss of the South Side mob at the time.

This also meant that by that time Patrick was already the new boss of the crew and for the next 15 years he controlled one of the largest and most lucrative group.

Lenny Patrick active (1940 - 1990) crew boss (late 1950s - 1975, 1978 - 1990) informer (1990 - 1992) died (2006)

Crew members (late 1950s - 1974): Dave (died 1974), Sam (died mid 60s), Ronald (killed 1974), Lenny Yaras, Jack and Mike Patrick (both retired by early 70s), Joe Epstein (retired early 70s), Max Nettler, Ben Gagerman, Itzer Levinson, Benny Goldberg, William Block (fled the city in 59), Morris Goldstein, Donald J. Hammond, Eugene Luffman, Norm Rottenberg, David Yagoda, Sam Skolnik, Walter Tardy, Meyer Retsky, Nathan Blumenthal, Harold Sawyer, Sam Ehrenberg (imprisoned late 60s), Eddie Gilman, George Shuman, Bernard Greenberg, Frank Rosenthal (by the late 60s switched to the Les Kruse group and went to Vegas)

By the early 1970s, Patricks gambling empire was completely destroyed by the government and during the years most of his close associates died, retired or went to prison. In 1975, Patrick was sentenced to 4 years in prison but served only 2. So during the late 70s Patrick was almost semi-retired but by the beginning of the 80s, he was back in action with a whole new crew and also a "new" scheme which was loan sharking.

Crew members (1980 - 1990): Lenny Yaras (killed in 1985), James LaValley, Raymond Spencer, Nicholas Gio, Mario Rainone, Gary Edwards

By 1989, two of Patricks crew members began cooperating with feds, followed by their own boss Patrick who began cooperating in 1990. By 1992 Patricks testimony helped in bringing down two Mafia bosses, including his own long time boss Gus Alex. That was the end of the old time Lenny Patrick crew.

[funkster]

Good info.

[CTfromCT1]

Hey gents - I’m mostly a lurker around here but was curious if anyone had checked out the Coffee with Cullotta YouTube videos. At minimum they’re entertaining but wondering how folks round here viewed them in terms of accuracy (to a non expert to me come across as legit!)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPorX7 ... XHa8Vqd3Tg

[Villain]

Good info.

Thanks man

[Villain]

Ralph Capone/William Heeney/John Moore/Joey Aiuppa crew

Even though this was never a official non-Italian crew, still these two guys need a honorable mention. Both Heeney and Moore aka Claude Maddox started as Capone loyalists on Chicagos Northwest Side, and later became prime enforcers for the old Capone/Cicero crew.

The crew was headed by the Capone bros, especially Ralph Capone who in turn by 1931 was considered the boss of Cicero and whole South Side at the time. When Ralph went to prison in 1931, his crew was under the auspices of Charles Fischetti and Joe Fusco, but his prime lieutenants were William Heeney and Claude Maddox.

When Ralph was released in 1934, and besides being free on the streets, he was still constantly under the watchful eye of the government, and so reports say that Heeney became his day-to-day chief executive regarding Ralphs gambling and union activities. From that point on, Ralph Capone always operated from the background.

Ralph Capone active (early 1920s - late 1960s), major capo (1931), capo (1935 - early 1950s) semi- retired (early 1950s - early 1970s) died (1974)

William Heeney active (mid 1920s - late 1940s), acting crew boss (1935 - early 1940s), semi-retired (late 1940s) died (1951)

Crew members (1935 - early 1940s): Claude Maddox, John and Albert Capone, Eddie and William Vogel, Charles Buffano, Joe Corngold, Joey and Sam Aiuppa, Robert Ansani, John and Dan Lardino, James Blakeley, Mike DeRosa, Ray Jones, Harry Braverman, Harry Millner, Tony Fragassi

By the early 1940s, the Vogel bros with the help of Aiuppa and Fragassi also entered the Melrose Park area and so Vogel created his own crew, separate from the Capone/Heeney crew but still both groups belonged to the same Cicero/South Side mob.

The real reason for this mightve been that by now the old Capone faction in Cicero was getting weak, mainly because Ralph was under constant government pressure, while Heeney was far from being a leader. In addition, it is also possible that because of the previously mentioned reasons, by 1943 the West Side faction completely entered the northern part of Cicero and from that point on, the area was divided between the West and South factions.

It is also interesting to note that during the same time, when the Outfits top admin was in prison, this was the main crew which took care or collected all of the donations from all of the Outfits crews and allies regarding the early release, and reports say that Heeney was one of the main guys who personally gave the cash to the needed people around the country.

So from the early 1940s until the mid 1950s the new acting boss of the old Capone/Cicero/South Side crew was John Moore aka Claude Maddox, mainly because by the late 40s and early 50s, Ralph Capone spent most of his time in Wisconsin.

From that point on, Maddox became one of the most respected Outfit members and controlled large number of lucrative union, gambling, extortion and semi-legit schemes. In addition, during this period Joey Aiuppa was Maddoxs number one guy and possible new and main connection the the national CN organization.

Ralph Capone capo (semi-retired)

John Moore aka Claude Maddox active (mid 1920s - 1955) crew boss (mid 1940s - 1955) semi -retired (1957) died (1958)

Crew members (mid 1940s - 1955): Willie Heeney (died 1951), Joey and Sam Aiuppa, Robert Ansani, John and Dan Lardino, Albert Capone, Charles Buffano, Joe Corngold, Angelo Divito, Alphonse Carlisi, Frank Mustari, Herb Tarrow, Larry Rassano, Caspar Ciapetta, Ray Jones

In 1956, the complete leadership of the crew including Maddox, Aiuppa and Ansani were sentenced to 1 year imprisonment and so the next year they were all released after serving 10 months. After that Maddox became semi-retired but in 1958 he died of natural causes while sleeping in his bed. From that point on or during the last two years of Maddoxs life, we can witness the start of the infamous Joey Aiuppa crew which controlled southern Cicero and also had interests in Melrose Park and many unions.

[Villain]

The Eddie Vogel crew....

Previously I first showed you the history of the so-called Capone/Maddox/Aiuppa crew on purpose since during one period the Vogel crew belonged to that same group. But as I already stated, during the early 1940s the Vogel bros expanded their operations around different areas, an action which gave them much higher status within the organization and the right to control their own crew.

Eddie Vogel was an old time criminal who during the early 1920s started as an independent self-made boss and businessman in the Cicero area with various political connections. The most interesting fact about this guy was that from the days of Prohibition until his retirement, his main scheme was always

Legend goes that by 1925, he made close connections with the Torrio/Capone mob and he was the one who allegedly brought the Caponites to southern Cicero. After the elimination of some high level Mafia members and also some non-Italian leaders, the Capone mob had the whole Cicero area for themselves.

As I already explained in the Maddox/Aiuppa post, during the early 1940s, Vogel managed to spread his operations in several different areas, thus giving him the right to create his own crew, separate from the Maddox/Aiuppa group.

Edward Vogel active (mid 1920s - late 1960s) crew boss (mid 1940s - early 1960s) semi-retired (mid 1960s - mid 1970s) died (1977)

Crew members (mid 1940s - early 1960s): William Vogel, Tony Fragassi (retired late 1950s), Martin and Tony Krier, Albert Meier, John Williams, Hyman Larner, Jim Rini, Alex Ross (by mid 1950s joined the Daddono group), Nathan Ladon, Tommy and Dominick Russo

By 1963, we still can see Vogel having meetings with the Outfits boss at the time Sam Giancana regarding important decisions, but by the mid 1960s, Vogel began to control the crew from the background and his number one guy was Hyman Larner.

During the 1950s and early 60s, Larner controlled most of Vogel's coin machine operations in and around Chicago, but the problem was that during that period Larner was exposed by the government as being a member of the Chicago mob, and so he fled to Panama. So from the late 1960s and onward, the Outfits coin operations boombed all around Central and South America.

By that Vogel was semi-retired and became close business partner and some sort of mentor to the boss of the South Side, Gus Alex. From that point on Larner took care of most of Vogels international interests, while some of his underlings oversaw their Chicago interests.

Hyman Larner active (mid 1940s - early 1980s) acting crew boss (late 1960s - mid 1970s) retired (mid 1980s) died (2002)

Crew members (late 1960s - mid 1970s): Nathan Ladon, Tommy and Dominick Russo, Carmen and Sal Bastone, Anselmo Pacini, Albert and Frank Meo, Jimmy Tortoriello, Marcell Harrick, Tony Deangelos, Jack Delamater

In 1976, one of Larners associates in the international operations and a crew boss in his own right, Les Kruse died of natural causes, followed by Larner's long time boss Eddie Vogel in 1977. On top of that, by the end of decade his superior from the South Side Gus Alex was no longer in the top three administration, although he still kept a high position right beneath the ruling triumvirate and operated mostly from the background.

Reports show that by 1977, the Outfits boss Joey Aiuppa appointed Tommy Russo to be in charge of Larners operations in Chicago.

Also in 1979, major capo James Torello died and his crew was split into two groups, one in Chinatown and the South Side, and the other one in Cicero and Lake County. The one in Cicero was headed by Joe Ferriola who allegedly took over/oversaw? Larners interests both in Cicero and the North Side, and also absorbed some of his members such as the Bastone bros. On the other hand, the Grand Av crew also entered the vending machine and video poker machine rackets and by the mid 80s they controlled a large portion of it.

By the mid 1980s Larner was still considered the main contact on the outside, mainly regarding the import/export of poker machines, but when the Outfits top admin was imprisoned in 1985, story goes that Larner cutting off all of his underworld contacts in Chicago, especially when his long time associate Lenny Patrick became an informer, followed by one of Larners alleged runners Mike Corbitt. Larner died as a free man in 2002 at the age of 89.

[Villain]

By now I managed to cover the Outfits non-Italian groups such as the Guzik, Humphreys, Kruse, Patrick, Maddox and Vogel crews, so coming up next are the so-called Francis Curry, William O'Donnell and Johnny Patton crews

[Villain]

The so-called Francis Curry crew started as Italian/Sicilian group in Joliet and the Will County area that was later hijacked. From the late 1920s until mid 1930s the Costello clan, first headed by Charles and later by Sam Costello, as a part of the Chicago Heights crew, had many interests in those same areas.

By the late 1930s a conflict occurred and so Sam Costello was eliminated and most of his interests were taken over by Frank LaPorte and Joe Guzzino, who in turn became the new boss of Calumet City and Will County areas. Guzzinos prime lieutenant in Joilet was Francis Curry, whose connections to LaPorte and Guzzino went years back.

Curry's connections to the Outfits top administration can be easily explained during the mid 1940s, when Paul Ricca and the rest of the bosses went to jail. Reports show that Curry took care of Riccas farm house, which means that during those days he was trusted by the Outfits top boss.

Joe Guzzino active (early 1920s - early 1960s) crew boss (1939 - late 1950s) semi-retired/liasion (early 1960s) died (1966)

Crew members (1939 - late 1950s): Francis Curry, Nick Guzzino Sr, Sam Micelli, Frank, Dominick and Tony Franze, Armand D'Andrea, Julius Shlanski, Dominick Nardi, Russel Carney, Joe Tocco, Max O'Lena, Tony Ziemmis, Roland Sorentio, John Mauro, Robert Curry

During the late 1950s and early 60s, Joe Guzzino often travelled together with LaPorte and John Roberto, to Italy and visited their first boss Dominick Roberto. But by the mid 1960s Guzzino started having serious health issues and died in 1966.

So even before Guzzinos death, Curry already controlled the crew and the whole Will County area. Currys "venom" was always the coin and vending machine racket, which brought hundreds and thousands of dollars on table, and he was described both by his associates and the feds as the main guy in Will County and main political fixer in the Joliet area.

By the mid 1960s, Curry sent some of his associates to Phoenix and Tucson Arizona, to watch over the Outfits interests in those same areas. In addition, when Guzzino died, the members from the Calumet City area now answered to Jimmy Catuara.

Francis Curry active (early 1930s - 1970), crew boss (mid 1960s - 1970), died (1970)

Crew members (mid 1960s - 1970): Armand D'Andrea, Nick D'Andrea, Joe Tocco, Robert Curry, Phil Frustino, Willie Kaiser, Roy Romano, Ernest Saviano Jr, Frank Franze, Max O'Lena

In 1970, Curry died of natural causes and according to reports, his son Robert Curry inherited all of his father's interests around Will County, but it seems that the rest of the crew members fell under the jurisdiction of Currys second in command Armand D'Andrea, including the Joliet area. Theres no official info that D'Andrea was ever considered a capo, although he received the same label as his predecessor as being the main individual in Joliet, who owned large number of real estate in Arizona.

[Villain]

At the beginning of 1930s or during the start of the Chicago Outfit, Johnny Patton was probably the oldest and most expirienced mobster in the whole organization.

Patton was born in 1883, and died in 1956. He started on his own in the Burnham area and at the age 23 became the mayor of that small town, a position which he kept for a very long time. He controlled many brothels and gambling houses, and also controlled several burglary crews.

During the 1910s he was very close associate of Big Jim Colosimo and Mike Carozzo and later with John Torrio and Al Capone. Pattons history speaks for itself when Capone became boss of the Chicago Mafia in 1931, Patton received his own interests and much more and so by the mid 1930s, he had his fingers in Cicero, Berwyn, Stickney, Lake County, Burnham, Gary and Hammond Indiana, Miami Florida.

Even though the crew lasted for a very short time period, still Patton and his associates were in charge of the most luctative racket and that was the racing tracks in Chicago and Miami. Besides the racing tracks, they had an army of bookies, under the control of Pattons associates.

John Patton active (1910s - early 1940s), crew boss (late 1920s - early 1940s), semi-retired (mid 1940s - mid 1950s), died (1956)

Crew members: Eddie O'Hare (killed 1939), William Skidmore (died in 1944), Anton Rench, William Johnson (imprisoned 1940), Bill Goldstein (indicted early 1940s), Thomas Colosimo (killed 1934), Charles Wells (became informer early 40s), Eddie Sneed, Eddie Sturch

As you can notice, a lot of Pattons associates had problems during the years like for example his representative in northwest Indiana, Tommy Colosimo was killed in 1934, followed by his main accomplice in the race tracks Eddie O'Hare who was killed in 1939, while his main gambling operator William Johnson was sentenced to 5 years in prison in 1940. Johnsons mentor and Pattons associate from Lake County, William Skidmore died of natural causes in 1944 and that was the end of the crew.

Pattons interests in Cicero and Skidmores interests in Lake County were inherited by their close associates from the Cicero/South Side Mob, the Fischetti bros.

When William Johnson got out of prison in 1944, few years later or by 1947, he together with Goldstein, Sturch and other gamblers joined the North Side mob under Ross Prio.

During the following years Patton was looked upon as a quite rich criminal veteran, who sometimes gave advices to people on politics and how to gamble. He died in 1956 at the age of 73.

In addition, back in 1951, Patton was called to testify before the Kefauver committee in Washington, and the old man answered few questions regarding his associations...here are only the most interesting parts...

Mr. Halley. How did you get to know Al Capone?

Mr. Patton. I don't know how I got to know him. I got to know him ; that's all.

Mr. Halley. You were pretty good friends?

Mr. Patton. I guess I was all right with him.

Mr. Halley. Was he all right with you?

Mr. Patton. As far as I am concerned, yes.

Mr. Halley. Did you know Frank Nitti?

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Halley. Eddie O'Hare?

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Halley. They were all one crowd; weren’t they?

Mr. Patton. How do you mean, "one crowd"?

Mr. Halley. Well, they were a gang of rumrunners, weren’t they bootleggers?

Mr. Patton. I don't know whether they were bootleggers. I don’t think Eddie O'Hare was a bootlegger. I didn't know Eddie until later around 1928. I don't know what he did in St. Louis. He was a lawyer and I can't keep track of lawyers, you know.

Mr. Halley. I hope the lawyers can keep track of you from now on.

Mr. Patton. Oh, they have did it pretty well.

Mr. Halley. Well, this one had a hard time up to today, tell me, you can't have any doubts that Capone and Nitti were in the beer- running business?

Mr. Patton. No, I have no doubts.

Mr. Halley. Was Frank Nitti connected with the dog tracks?

Mr. Patton. Yes.

Mr. Halley. You are talking now about which race track?

Mr. Patton. Sportsman's Park.

Mr. Halley. He was up there with Eddie O'Hare; is that right?

Mr. Patton. Yes.

Mr. Halley. How did Bill Johnson get into the set-up with you and Eddie O'Hare?

Mr. Patton. Oh, Bill Johnson, first time I knew Bill Johnson he was bookkeeper at the barns, back there for the horsemen.

Mr. Halley. What happened with respect to the Miami Kennel Club? Who took over control of that after O'Hare died?

Mr. Patton. Well, Charlie Bidwell and I imagine he got some of Eddie's…it was Bidwell and Johnson.

Mr. Halley. Bidwell and Johnson?

Mr. Patton. Yes.

Mr. Halley. Did you talk to Bill Johnson about the contribution he made to Fuller Warren's campaign in 1948?

Mr. Patton. Yes.

Mr. Halley. Did you contribute any money to it?

Mr. Patton. No, sir; and I will tell you why, because I was sick; maybe I would have gotten into it, but I was sick in bed about that time. I had a heart attack, and I had three nurses, and they weren't bothering me much when I was down there.

Mr. Halley. What did Johnson say to you about his idea of financing this campaign for Fuller Warren?

Mr. Patton. He was always a little nutty about Fuller Warren, He thought he was going to be the next President of the United States, I suppose.

Mr. Halley. Do you know Tony Accardo?

Mr. Patton. His name was Batters when I knew him.

Mr. Halley. Joe Batters?

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir that is what I know him by.

Mr. Halley. By the way, do you know Fuller Warren?

Mr. Patton. Sure.

Mr. Halley. Pretty well?

Mr. Patton. Well, I know him enough to talk to him and say hello to him.

Mr. Halley. How well do you know Joe Batters?

Mr. Patton. Just to know that that was his name, Joe Batters, and sometimes if I would meet him I would forget what his name was.

Mr. Halley. How well did you know the Fischettis?

Mr. Patton. Well, I knew them longer than I knew Batters, and I didn't know them any too good.

Mr. Halley. Was Batters in the gambling business?

Mr. Patton. Not to my knowledge, until I seen it in the newspapers, now it looks that way.

Mr. Halley. Did you know Guzik, Jack Guzik?

Mr. Patton. Oh, sure, sure, sure.

Mr. Halley. Pretty well?

Mr. Patton. I think I knew Guzik, yes, I knew him longer than I know the rest of them, yes.

Mr. Halley. Let's see if we can work it a little further along, and maybe really be helpful. Did you know Paul Ricca?

Mr. Patton. Yes, sir.

Mr. Halley. How long have you known Paul Ricca?

Mr. Patton. Maybe 15 or 20 years, I am just guessing. It may be more or it may be less.

Mr. Halley. He also was a pretty close associate of Capone, wasn't he?

Mr. Patton. I don't know. I have seen him around Capone. But, I have seen a million — I have seen a lot of people around him.

Mr. Halley. You know Louis Campagna?

Mr. Patton. Yes.

Mr. Halley. "Little New York" I think they call him?

Mr. Patton. Yes.

Mr. Halley. You are a friendly fellow, Mr. Patton, but, tell me, how about Ricca and Campagna, how did you get to know them 15 or 20 years ago?

Mr. Patton. Well, I think Ricca at one time, I think he used to take a lot of bets, laid bets, at bookmakers. I think he was interested in that. I don't know who was with him in it. I think that is what Ricca did.

Mr. Halley. Did you do a lot of betting?

Mr. Patton. No. I have never made a bet on a horse in my life. If there were three or four people sitting here, say, "Put a dollar on a bet with you," I would bet a dollar. I don't know how to read a racing form.

Mr. Robinson. One last question, weren't you much closer to Mr. Nitti than you were to O'Hare?

Mr. Patton. No, I was at Eddie O'Hare — I was with Eddie O'Hare all the time in business, and we never had an argument or dispute, about money or anything.

Mr. Halley. What are you worth today, Mr. Patton?

Mr. Patton. Oh, I don't know, three, four hundred thousand, maybe ; it depends a lot on the market.

Mr. Halley. It could be more?

Mr. Patton. Could be more.

[B.]

Im still looking for the file which perfectly explains Chicagos advisor position in details, but i managed to find something similar...this information is from 1962 and probably comes from some NY informer or a member from a different family at least, since he made some mistakes like for example he stated that the Outfit changed their bosses every 4 years which was untrue, and he was half-right about Rocco Fischetti since he used to be a major capo and i think that the informer possibly mixed up Rocco with his late brother Charles, one time acting boss for the Outfit.

BUT the informant was obviously quite aware regarding the different type of system in Chicago and also a position which was reserved only for former bosses who still received income from the family...

Thanks for keeping this thread alive.

We had a topic about that informant a few years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=3143&p=65195#p65195

He was most knowledgeable about the Profaci family and I suspect he was a Profaci associate but could have been a member as he did have some knowledge of the organization. He knew a lot of general info but got a number of specifics wrong so it's hard to gauge his objective value without knowing his identity. He's def not Scarpa. Interesting to see his take on Chicago either way and it's part of the conversation for sure.

EDIT: Looks like Ed may have identified him, which I forgot about:

I (tentatively) identified the source "NY 3368" as Louis Ferrini. He was a burglar and convicted murderer based in New Jersey connected to the Profaci Crime Family.

I go into this a little bit here.
http://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/mafialac ... a.html#n72

Do any Chicago member sources say anything specifically about this arrangement? I'd be curious if any of the Detroit experts know more about Joe Zerilli wanting to "step down" to consigliere but still having "power" and if he was influenced in this strategy by Chicago. Regardless of the terminology, it sounds like a similar arrangement even though it didn't happen to my knowledge. The only other similar example I can think of is Milwaukee (again close to Chicago) whose boss John Alioto stepped down and became a capodecina over the elder members but still sat on the family council that initially advised Balistrieri. There are also some other example of bosses who stepped down and still received money/tribute from the family but in those cases they didn't have a formal position any longer and seemingly didn't take part in the leadership.

Ferraro and Humphreys' thoughts on the Capone era having more disicpline and authority is interesting. Mafia members almost always have the opinion that earlier bosses were tougher, better leaders and that the membership was more "stand up" and "capable". It's one of those "get off my lawn" sorts of things, in my opinion, as it's a constant theme when informants cooperate and conversations are picked up on bugs.

Did you have thoughts on that FBI report Antiliar posted from CI Louis Fratto where he mentions the rumor that Accardo felt Ferraro had allowed Gus Alex to get too close to the inner workings of the organization? Seems to suggest at the very least there were some different opinions / attitudes about the roles that some of these non-Italians should have (and to be fair, members often have opposing opinions on what roles other Italians should have in the org, too), though there is no doubt they were leading/influential figures at the end of the day.

[Villain]

Thanks for keeping this thread alive.

We had a topic about that informant a few years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=3143&p=65195#p65195

He was most knowledgeable about the Profaci family and I suspect he was a Profaci associate but could have been a member as he did have some knowledge of the organization. He knew a lot of general info but got a number of specifics wrong so it's hard to gauge his objective value without knowing his identity. He's def not Scarpa. Interesting to see his take on Chicago either way and it's part of the conversation for sure.

EDIT: Looks like Ed may have identified him, which I forgot about:

I (tentatively) identified the source "NY 3368" as Louis Ferrini. He was a burglar and convicted murderer based in New Jersey connected to the Profaci Crime Family.

I go into this a little bit here.
http://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/mafialac ... a.html#n72

Do any Chicago member sources say anything specifically about this arrangement? I'd be curious if any of the Detroit experts know more about Joe Zerilli wanting to "step down" to consigliere but still having "power" and if he was influenced in this strategy by Chicago. Regardless of the terminology, it sounds like a similar arrangement even though it didn't happen to my knowledge. The only other similar example I can think of is Milwaukee (again close to Chicago) whose boss John Alioto stepped down and became a capodecina over the elder members but still sat on the family council that initially advised Balistrieri. There are also some other example of bosses who stepped down and still received money/tribute from the family but in those cases they didn't have a formal position any longer and seemingly didn't take part in the leadership.

Ferraro and Humphreys' thoughts on the Capone era having more disicpline and authority is interesting. Mafia members almost always have the opinion that earlier bosses were tougher, better leaders and that the membership was more "stand up" and "capable". It's one of those "get off my lawn" sorts of things, in my opinion, as it's a constant theme when informants cooperate and conversations are picked up on bugs.

Did you have thoughts on that FBI report Antiliar posted from CI Louis Fratto where he mentions the rumor that Accardo felt Ferraro had allowed Gus Alex to get too close to the inner workings of the organization? Seems to suggest at the very least there were some different opinions / attitudes about the roles that some of these non-Italians should have (and to be fair, members often have opposing opinions on what roles other Italians should have in the org, too), though there is no doubt they were leading/influential figures at the end of the day.

No problem bud.

My pc is currently dead and everything which i posted here in the last 3 or 4 weeks, i posted it from my phone. I had one simple word file with all of the links or particular references from different files regarding all of the specifics.

I dont remember if the informant was a Chicago guy or maybe someone else...but there is another file which states the same thing regarding the advisor position and i cant find it with a simple search on the MF site but i know its there for sure...ill do another search tomorow

Thanks for the info on both Detriot and Milwaukee...if Zerilli took a step back then it is quite possible that he was going to have the position in his own family, same as the one which Accardo had in Chicago. Im not sure if they copied this from Chicago, maybe they did or maybe it was every family for itself. I also think that the Genovese family also had similar structure during one period.

As for the Milwaukee example...ive seen some examples regarding the Outfit where a underboss was lowered down to major capo or territorial boss, or senior adviser being placed as underboss, or boss to underboss, so maybe it happened i dont know...back in the days some people used to say that Giancana was demoted to a caporegime but his early 70s files say otherwise, meaning he probably held one of those senior positions until 74. According to one source, he allegedly nixed one contract during that time and we can also see various members constantly travelling to wherever Giancana was located at the time and then back to Chicago.
Although we must not forget that Giancana was disliked by most of the top members at the time.

Dont forget that during certain time periods, the Outfit had 2 or 3 senior advisers or semi-retired guys (both Italians and non-Italians) at the same time, which confirms the informant's statement about current and former top people still making more money. According to another informant, in Chicago, 50% of the proceedings went to the top admin so the whole thing makes sense

Thanks also for mentioning that Accardo situation about Alex...it shows you that Accardo was more traditional while Ricca was more open minded. Theres one interesting talk between Alex and Ricca in which the Greek is talking about going to Italy while Ricca asked him when he was going there so he can send some word over there. This obviously means that Ricca protected Alex

By the early 70s Alex was way too powerful for Accardo to ignore, and as a matter fact, every top leader or major capo at the time was dead or in jail, so there wasnt too many people to trust at the time

So my opinion is that during later years Accardo accepted Alex as his most trusted accomplice and gave him a stature much bigger than the ones previously given by Ricca, which no other non-Italian ever achieved it.

Theres one famous photo from the mid 1970s with Accardo, Aiuppa, Cerone, Marcy together with the Alex bros. That photo speaks a lot.

Some top guys such as Accardo, Prio or Humphreys during certain periods didnt like Alex, because he allegedly sometimes did some stuff on his own, like going away without reporting and stuff like that, or making trouble regarding Prio buying an apartment in the same building where Alex used to live.

But it seems they all depended on him during important situations like for example trouble with the law. But i can show you at least two or three examples where Humphreys trash talks Alex. Kruse also had similar opinion regarding both Ferraro and Alex

Heres one where Humphreys tells it to his face...this is taken from my piece on Alex from the articles section which is completely copied from one wiretapped convo...

HUMPHREYS: Now listen here, you and I are gonna have to work in teamwork. Gonna have to work a little bit better. Now I’ll tell you. Don’t go around saying you’re smarter then I am cause we’re not supposed to be smarter than each other. We’re supposed to work like a team.

ALEX: I never told anybody. I never told anybody I’m smarter than you. Whoever told you that is a liar.

HUMPHREYS: You tell everybody Greeks are smarter than the Welsh.

ALEX: Smarter than you?

HUMPHREYS: No, now listen. I want to talk to you. We have to work in teamwork.


Heres another one...

HUMPHREYS: Listen, did Gussie (Alex) go away?

UNKNOWN: Yeah.

HUMPHREYS: He bothers me, you know? There’s something real wrong with that kid.

UNKNOWN: He’ll be all right.

HUMPHREYS: I was just talking to him and he gets hot right away, you know? The kid is worst off then we think he is. He is trying to put up a front.

UNKNOWN: Well, uh, you be patient, and have little more confidence, because, uh… you see we talked to doctors. It takes anywhere from six to nine months for that shit to get out of your system. Take that time in California. He says… the main thing he’s got to do is relax.

HUMPHREYS: Yeah, but we had those things before, you know? The only thing you can’t throw anything at them.

UNKOWN: …so I told him, go away for a while, and relax. So he comes back, and takes whatever they throw at him. Mooney (Giancana), see?

HUMPHREYS: Well, he fights everybody. See, everybody has the same thing, only we have it all day long, all the time. He can’t take it. It’s rough for those younger guys. I tell them for fucks sake, you guys don’t even know what it is.


This was the time period when most of the young guys thought that Humphreys was too old to handle things lol theres one quite funny talk between him and Giancana in which Humphreys says something like dont send me to that farm, meaning retirement lol Giancana laughed and it never happened

It seems that the Greek always played the right side at the right time. During the 1940s he was with the leading group such as Accardo, the Fischettis and Guzik, while during the early 50s he switched his loyalty to Ricca and Giancana against Accardo and his old associates from the South Side such as Bruno Roti, and thats how he bought himself a free pass for the next 6 or 7 years. He did the same thing right before Giancanas exile or before Battaglia went to prison. Looks like he was quite smart and knew how the calculate the situation by being few steps ahead.

In addition, theres only one crew left on my list and this wasnt traditional non-Italian group like the previous ones which i already posted, but instead it functioned more like the traditional Sicilian families and crews, mainly because it was headed by old time Sicilian member who joined the Outfit. Tomorow Ill start writing about it...

[Confederate]

It seems that the Greek always played the right side at the right time. During the 1940s he was with the leading group such as Accardo, the Fischettis and Guzik, while during the early 50s he switched his loyalty to Ricca and Giancana against Accardo and his old associates from the South Side such as Bruno Roti, and thats how he bought himself a free pass for the next 6 or 7 years. He did the same thing right before Giancanas exile or before Battaglia went to prison. Looks like he was quite smart and knew how the calculate the situation by being few steps ahead.

What exactly caused the tension in the early 1950's on the top level? Was the tension between Ricca & Accardo or Giancana & Accardo?

[Villain]

It seems that the Greek always played the right side at the right time. During the 1940s he was with the leading group such as Accardo, the Fischettis and Guzik, while during the early 50s he switched his loyalty to Ricca and Giancana against Accardo and his old associates from the South Side such as Bruno Roti, and thats how he bought himself a free pass for the next 6 or 7 years. He did the same thing right before Giancanas exile or before Battaglia went to prison. Looks like he was quite smart and knew how the calculate the situation by being few steps ahead.

What exactly caused the tension in the early 1950's on the top level? Was the tension between Ricca & Accardo or Giancana & Accardo?

Most of the files generally say that Accardo didnt want to step down for Ricca but the whole situation was more complicated than the standard explanation and it possibly lasted for more than 3 years...according to my sources it was more like Ricca/Battaglia vs Accardo/Roti with Giancana and Capezio being in the middle...the Outfit was always on the edge of breaking into two or three separate families

[UTC]

Is that the full source for Alex being on a ruling panel? It shows Alex was important and trusted by Accardo but it's fairly vague.

When Joe Massino was in prison, he used non-Italian lawyer Tommy Lee to promote Vincent Basciano to acting boss and send messages concerning other family affairs, even murder contracts involving Basciano. No doubt Alex had worlds more influence and authority than Lee, but there are examples of non-members/non-Italians being used to direct high-level affairs in other cities without actually being members.

--

Glad we agree on those above points!

But didn't he use Lee for the purpose of taking advantage of the attorney-client privilege and the privacy of communication?

[Pete]

I read aiuppa fbi file and in it they said who are you working for and he said you know who I work for Maddox! I was very surprised aiuppa would tell the feds anything