Understanding Chicago

[Villain]

I still say that late eighties early nineties period with the amount of indictments and who ended up going to prison was I believe maybe the most devistating time period for the Outfit. Alex being one of them and didn't rat. Just imagine what he could have told. Didn't he die in prison?

Thats right and I completely agree. By 1993, we have Carlisi, Alex, Roti and Marcy all out of the picture. Alex, Roti and Marcy were the main protection. Also both Marcello and Zizzo were sentenced to prison, followed by DiFronzo who was also indicted but was later released, although his brother Joe got busted for growing weed at the same time

In fact, Patrick was another non-Italian who knew too much about the Outfits internal affairs. Patrick was with the Outfit since the early 40s and was quite useful informer

[Confederate]

I still say that late eighties early nineties period with the amount of indictments and who ended up going to prison was I believe maybe the most devistating time period for the Outfit. Alex being one of them and didn't rat. Just imagine what he could have told. Didn't he die in prison?

Thats right and I completely agree. By 1993, we have Carlisi, Alex, Roti and Marcy all out of the picture. Both Marcello and Zizzo were also in prison, followed by DiFronzo who was also indicted but was later released, although his brother Joe got busted for growing weed at the same time

In fact, Patrick was another non-Italian who knew too much about the Outfits internal affairs. Patrick was with the Outfit since the early 40s and was quite useful informer

Carlisi financed "part" of Patrick's crew by loaning Lenny Patrick $200,000.

[Villain]

I still say that late eighties early nineties period with the amount of indictments and who ended up going to prison was I believe maybe the most devistating time period for the Outfit. Alex being one of them and didn't rat. Just imagine what he could have told. Didn't he die in prison?

Thats right and I completely agree. By 1993, we have Carlisi, Alex, Roti and Marcy all out of the picture. Both Marcello and Zizzo were also in prison, followed by DiFronzo who was also indicted but was later released, although his brother Joe got busted for growing weed at the same time

In fact, Patrick was another non-Italian who knew too much about the Outfits internal affairs. Patrick was with the Outfit since the early 40s and was quite useful informer

Carlisi financed "part" of Patrick's crew by loaning Lenny Patrick $200,000.

Thats right and besides Carlisi and Marcello, Patrick also mentioned both DiFronzo and Alex that they also took a cut from his crew.

Theres one interesting situation in which Patrick advised one of his Italian crew members, cant remember his name right now, to stay away from made members because he was going to make less money or something like that (Rainone?)

[Frank]

I can't remember if Alex was part of the administration till Accardo retired or died. Not sure Accardo ever fully retired.

[Frank]

LE said Accardo received money till basically death

[Villain]

I can't remember if Alex was part of the administration till Accardo retired or died. Not sure Accardo ever fully retired.

After the late 1970s i dont believe that Alex still held the same high stature but he obviously still had some type of jurisdiction over both Marcy and Roti and also took his cut from the Lenny Patrick crew.

You see, after the late 60s, story goes that Alex wanted to completely retire from the Mob but he allegedly wasnt allowed by Accardo to make such a move, and he was somehow "swindled" by receiving much higher and more active position. So i personally believe that during the 80s he was still forced and was also still looked upon as one of the Outfits elders while Accardo was still alive. Accardo died in 92 and thats the same time when Alex went to prison....

[Confederate]

Two main things about the pre 70s Chicago Outfit which made them different from the rest of the CN families...one, they had different structure and two, they had non-Italians in their own ranks

I might extend that up until pre-90s because Alex was right up there on some of the F.B.I. Charts in 1983. Lenny Patrick was a powerful Crew Boss who became an Informant in 1992 where he identified Gus Alex as his immediate Boss. Nick Calabrese was the first "made" member of the Outfit to become an informant. However, Lenny Patrick was considered the highest ranking "Member" of the Outfit to become an Informant. Nick Calabrese was a peon compared to Patrick.

[Frank]

Well there is definitely no doubt Alex was one of the most powerful men in the Outfit and had few men that outranked him since Cerone went to prison in the 70s

[Frank]

And just for fun , I have Accardo having Aiuppa wacked over Alex if it ever had come to that.

[Villain]

Aiuppa was the last Mohican of the old Capone/Cicero faction. He and Ansani both worked for Ralph Capone and John Moore aka Claudie Maddox. Accardo was Elmwood Park and W Grand Av, meaning he came from a different crew.

Alex played on both sides but he originally came from the old Capone faction aka the South Side Mob. Besides the Loop, Chinatown and South Side, Alex also had many interests around Cicero, especially the southern part where Aiuppa used to be mostly active. When Giancana took over, Alex received interests on both sides

So my point is that Alex probably knew and was more closely connected to Aiuppa rather than to Accardo, and I also bet that he gave his vote for Aiuppa to take the boss position. BUT it seems that Accardo trusted Alex very much and the Greek always had to check with the old man regarding every action, including personal stuff, something only a made man wouldve done.

@Confederate i was thinking more about the CN traditions which they received during the late 70s, and from that point on Alex was no longer in the top three

[Villain]

Speaking about Moore aka Maddox, he was another non-Italian with a high rank within the Chi Outfit, not the same as Alex's but when Ralph Capone became semi-retired and started spending more time in Wisconsin, Maddox inherited his crew which included Heeney, Aiuppa, Ansani, the Lardino bros, Corngold, Albert Capone etc. When Maddox retired and later died, thats when Aiuppa became the official capo of the crew

[Confederate]

Aiuppa was the last Mohican of the old Capone/Cicero faction. He and Ansani both worked for Ralph Capone and John Moore aka Claudie Maddox. Accardo was Elmwood Park and W Grand Av, meaning he came from a different crew.

Alex played on both sides but he originally came from the old Capone faction aka the South Side Mob. Besides the Loop, Chinatown and South Side, Alex also had many interests around Cicero, especially the southern part where Aiuppa used to be mostly active. When Giancana took over, Alex received interests on both sides

So my point is that Alex probably knew and was more closely connected to Aiuppa rather than to Accardo, and I also bet that he gave his vote for Aiuppa to take the boss position. BUT it seems that Accardo trusted Alex very much and the Greek always had to check with the old man regarding every action, including personal stuff, something only a made man wouldve done.

@Confederate i was thinking more about the CN traditions which they received during the late 70s, and from that point on Alex was no longer in the top three

True enough but I was thinking Alex was in the Top 4 in the same way that Humphreys was in the top 4 before he died in 1965. Back then, the Top 4 were Ricca, Accardo, Giancana & Humphreys with Humphreys being below the other. Same pattern later with Accardo, Auippa, Cerone & Alex being below the other 3. Anyway, that was my analogy.

As we know, every Top Boss in Chicago ALWAYS had a back up for security. Accardo's backup was always Elmwood Park with Cerone. Even when the F.B.I. had their "Walk & Talk" meeting with Accardo, it was done in Elmwood Park. When push came to Shove, these guys always reverted back to their roots which for Accardo was Grand Avenue/Elmwood Park & Giancana (when he was in power) was Taylor St.

[Villain]

Humphreys was in the top 4 before he died in 1965. Back then, the Top 4 were Ricca, Accardo, Giancana & Humphreys with Humphreys being below the other.

True but you are forgetting Ferraro and later Battaglia...during that period neither Humphreys nor Alex were in the top three...by the early 70s Alex was

[Villain]

In addition, heres one quite small example on how the top three guys functioned during one period...DeLucia aka Ricca, Accardo and Giancana...also click on the next page...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 3&tab=page

[Confederate]

Humphreys was in the top 4 before he died in 1965. Back then, the Top 4 were Ricca, Accardo, Giancana & Humphreys with Humphreys being below the other.

True but you are forgetting Ferraro and later Battaglia...during that period Alex wasnt in the top three...by the early 70s he was

Yes, Top 5.
Ricca, Accardo, Giancana
Humphreys, Ferraro (then Battaglia)

I always think of Ferraro & then Battaglia as "First Among Equals" among the 4 Major Territory Bosses of the North, West, South & Far South.
But yes, you are correct.