General Mob Questions

[Wiseguy]

Who placed you in charge of credibility? You fly off the handle anytime a posters says anything you don't agree with. Neither of us insulted you or made remarks aimed at you

Get back to me when either of you have a half-decent reason to dismiss Blakey so readily.

[Pogo The Clown]

Ruby grew up on Chicago’s West Side, the Lawndale area and hung around with future Outfit enforcers such as the infamous Patrick bros, Yaras bros and Irvin Weiner.

Years later Ruby was involved in Local 20467 of the Scrap Iron and Junk Handlers Union, in which the crime syndicate showed an interest and some say that Ruby was the connection. Records provided by the Social Security Administration indicate that Ruby was employed by the union from late 1937 until early 1940, and worked as a union organizer and negotiated with employers on its behalf.

The union's president and Ruby's real boss at the time was Outfit enforcer and union racketeer Paul Red Dorfman. Back in the old days of Prohibition, Dorfman worked as an enforcer for Sam Hunt, Ralph Pierce and the Capone gang. At the time Hunt and Pierce led the main enforcement squad for the gang during the 1928 elections in the 20th Ward.

Another of Ruby's close associates in the union was John Martin, also a killer and Outfit associate who shared control over the organization together with Dorfman.

In 1939, Martin murdered the union's secretary treasurer who in turn tried to expose the whole scheme. Besides that, the whole situation still brought a lot of heat over the union and story goes that the control over the union should’ve been given to Ruby, but that didn’t happen because he was allegedly unable to devote himself further to union activities, left its employ, devoted himself to bookmaking and after serving in the army, in 46 he returned to Chicago and quickly went to Dallas.

The main reason for that was that during the mid 1940's a whole contingent of Outfit members went down to Dallas to take over all bookmaking operations. One of those guys was Sam Yaras, brother of Dave Yaras, who in turn knew Ruby since day one. According to Dave himself, he knew Ruby as "Sparky," a young hustler and fight fan from Division and Damen Street area. Yaras also stated that his brother Sam was acquainted with Ruby and probably did business together. By 1947 the whole invasion was cancelled because of the conflict which occurred back in Chicago at the time. Most of the Outfit guys returned home, except for Sam and Ruby.

Some years later after the JFK assassination, all of Ruby's old criminal associates were questioned by investigators and all of them confirmed knowing Ruby since kids but denied any further contacts through later years. When the investigators questioned Dave Yaras, his brother Sam was already dead and so there wasnt much to talk about.

Reports later showed that Ruby had contacted Weiner in October 1963 and also made few telephone calls to both Patrick and Yaras. But for “unknown” reasons the Warren Commission investigators credulously accepted the word of these lying and murderous Chicago hoodlums and accepted the "fact" that Ruby had no underworld ties. Case closed

Could the mob change the parade route? Or eliminate the protection for the President? Could the mob send Oswald to Russia and get him back? Get the FBl, the CIA and the Dallas Police to mess up the investigation? Get the Warren Commission appointed to cover it up? Wreck the autopsy? Influence the national media to go to sleep? Since when has the mob used anything but .38's for hits up close? The mob wouldn't have the guts or the power for something of this magnitude. Assassins need payrolls, schedules, times, orders. This was a military-style ambush. A coup d'état with Lyndon Johnson waiting in the wings.


Pogo

[bert]

Who placed you in charge of credibility? You fly off the handle anytime a posters says anything you don't agree with. Neither of us insulted you or made remarks aimed at you

Get back to me when either of you have a half-decent reason to dismiss Blakey so readily.

I gave them, if you don't agree fine, but keep yourself in check. You get personal with anyone who does not agree with your take on things.

[Wiseguy]

I gave them, if you don't agree fine, but keep yourself in check. You get personal with anyone who does not agree with your take on things.

Right. Because his personal theory about the Kennedy assassination wasn't correct, that must mean that the law enforcement info on the drug trade he included in the report must be wrong too. Yeah, that makes sense. Good point.

[Confederate]

Ruby grew up on Chicago’s West Side, the Lawndale area and hung around with future Outfit enforcers such as the infamous Patrick bros, Yaras bros and Irvin Weiner.

Years later Ruby was involved in Local 20467 of the Scrap Iron and Junk Handlers Union, in which the crime syndicate showed an interest and some say that Ruby was the connection. Records provided by the Social Security Administration indicate that Ruby was employed by the union from late 1937 until early 1940, and worked as a union organizer and negotiated with employers on its behalf.

The union's president and Ruby's real boss at the time was Outfit enforcer and union racketeer Paul Red Dorfman. Back in the old days of Prohibition, Dorfman worked as an enforcer for Sam Hunt, Ralph Pierce and the Capone gang. At the time Hunt and Pierce led the main enforcement squad for the gang during the 1928 elections in the 20th Ward.

Another of Ruby's close associates in the union was John Martin, also a killer and Outfit associate who shared control over the organization together with Dorfman.

In 1939, Martin murdered the union's secretary treasurer who in turn tried to expose the whole scheme. Besides that, the whole situation still brought a lot of heat over the union and story goes that the control over the union should’ve been given to Ruby, but that didn’t happen because he was allegedly unable to devote himself further to union activities, left its employ, devoted himself to bookmaking and after serving in the army, in 46 he returned to Chicago and quickly went to Dallas.

The main reason for that was that during the mid 1940's a whole contingent of Outfit members went down to Dallas to take over all bookmaking operations. One of those guys was Sam Yaras, brother of Dave Yaras, who in turn knew Ruby since day one. According to Dave himself, he knew Ruby as "Sparky," a young hustler and fight fan from Division and Damen Street area. Yaras also stated that his brother Sam was acquainted with Ruby and probably did business together. By 1947 the whole invasion was cancelled because of the conflict which occurred back in Chicago at the time. Most of the Outfit guys returned home, except for Sam and Ruby.

Some years later after the JFK assassination, all of Ruby's old criminal associates were questioned by investigators and all of them confirmed knowing Ruby since kids but denied any further contacts through later years. When the investigators questioned Dave Yaras, his brother Sam was already dead and so there wasnt much to talk about.

Reports later showed that Ruby had contacted Weiner in October 1963 and also made few telephone calls to both Patrick and Yaras. But for “unknown” reasons the Warren Commission investigators credulously accepted the word of these lying and murderous Chicago hoodlums and accepted the "fact" that Ruby had no underworld ties. Case closed

Could the mob change the parade route? Or eliminate the protection for the President? Could the mob send Oswald to Russia and get him back? Get the FBl, the CIA and the Dallas Police to mess up the investigation? Get the Warren Commission appointed to cover it up? Wreck the autopsy? Influence the national media to go to sleep? Since when has the mob used anything but .38's for hits up close? The mob wouldn't have the guts or the power for something of this magnitude. Assassins need payrolls, schedules, times, orders. This was a military-style ambush. A coup d'état with Lyndon Johnson waiting in the wings.


Pogo

Lyndon Johnson hated Kennedy. They were Oil & Water. Kennedy was a liberal Irish Yankee from the North & Johnson was a Southern Confederate from Texas. Johnson wanted the Power & the Political Faction supporting him hated Kennedy & wanted him out.

[Amershire_Ed]

I don’t knock anyone for there JFK theory unless it involves aliens or something like that. I think there are 2-3 theories any reasonable person could make a case for. I have my own thoughts but I don’t denigrate anyone for there’s.

Trump was going to release like 20,000 files back in 2018 but at the last minute they only released part of them, pushing the release date for the rest of them back until April 2021. I’m almost of the opinion now that any further documents are going to muddy the waters even more, and not provide the kind of clarity people were hoping for.

[Confederate]

I don’t knock anyone for there JFK theory unless it involves aliens or something like that. I think there are 2-3 theories any reasonable person could make a case for. I have my own thoughts but I don’t denigrate anyone for there’s.

Trump was going to release like 20,000 files back in 2018 but at the last minute they only released part of them, pushing the release date for the rest of them back until April 2021. I’m almost of the opinion now that any further documents are going to muddy the waters even more, and not provide the kind of clarity people were hoping for.

I got news for you, a lot of people don't care about the details. Only the people who supported Kennedy care about the details. I'm glad he got killed. He was a typical very rich phony liberal. The fact that John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy & MLK were all assassinated was terrific IMO.

[Pogo The Clown]

In case no one noticed my two posts up top were quotes from the movie JFK.


Pogo

[Amershire_Ed]

In case no one noticed my two posts up top were quotes from the movie JFK.


Pogo

I don’t particularly like the movie but the scene with X (Donald Sutherland) is really well done.

[JMAN723]

I had a question about the Ravenite building layout. I’m currently editing together a project that had FBI surveillance from 1979. Back then the Ravenite had green doors, glass windows, and had the “Members Only” letters printed on the glass. However if you look at surveillance from the late 80’s/ early 90’s it has bricks with a white door. I’ve heard Gotti had the windows bricked you to avoid surveillance/bugs but can’t confirm this.

[srg16]

I had a question about the Ravenite building layout. I’m currently editing together a project that had FBI surveillance from 1979. Back then the Ravenite had green doors, glass windows, and had the “Members Only” letters printed on the glass. However if you look at surveillance from the late 80’s/ early 90’s it has bricks with a white door. I’ve heard Gotti had the windows bricked you to avoid surveillance/bugs but can’t confirm this.

Gotti didnt even need to brick anything if this is true. Multiple law enforcement officials have said it was nearly IMPOSSIBLE to hear in the Ravenite because of loud music on 24/7 and all the talking. Thats why they had a huge boner when they figured out Gotti was going up stairs to talk business.

[anthony-jtodaro]

pegula is italian, meaning the italians are running buffalo still and he is just making it look like he is nice guy on camera.

[JMAN723]

I had a question about the Ravenite building layout. I’m currently editing together a project that had FBI surveillance from 1979. Back then the Ravenite had green doors, glass windows, and had the “Members Only” letters printed on the glass. However if you look at surveillance from the late 80’s/ early 90’s it has bricks with a white door. I’ve heard Gotti had the windows bricked you to avoid surveillance/bugs but can’t confirm this.

Gotti didnt even need to brick anything if this is true. Multiple law enforcement officials have said it was nearly IMPOSSIBLE to hear in the Ravenite because of loud music on 24/7 and all the talking. Thats why they had a huge boner when they figured out Gotti was going up stairs to talk business.

. Yeah I get that. I’ve also heard just extra protection from an attack or something I guess. The way the Ravenite used to lose there were big glass windows on both sides

[JIGGS]

Frank Lucas made millions as a drug dealer but the bulk of his life story that got turned into a movie is actually based off Ike Atkinson and Frank Matthews. Ike Atkinson was the one who had the connects in Vietnam and Cambodia. He was really the one bringing shipments over. He brought Lucas with him one time to Cambodia—but as a worker. Not as a fellow boss or anything like that. And Ike Atkinson spent the last 10 years of his life demanding Lucas publicly apologize for making up the story about using soldiers coffins to transport the heroin. Atkinson himself was a marine and was furious that Lucas said that’s how they transported the drugs. He said he could forgive Lucas for snitching before he’d ever forgive him for making up the story about using dead marines to smuggle drugs.

And Frank Matthews **is** the guy some mob guys were actually worried about. He worked with them some intially but then he got his own connection and started supplying over half the United States. It’s not an exaggeration to say Matthews is the biggest drug dealer in American history. He cut into the mobs business and he was threatened by both Carlo Gambino and Big Paul. He moved across the street from Big Paul in Todt Hill. And they tried to run him out of the neighborhood. But he got word to Gambino that if anything happened to any of his men he would send “an army to Mulbury St to shoot any guinea they see”.

Well you know there brother im sorry too say that too is more manufacturers fabrication and publicated bullshit by the true crime expert pezzonovantis. By the time big paul moved into the the todd hill block on s.i. Frankie matthews was in the wind by a lot a years. He was not the biggest drug dealer of all time. He aint even in the top 100. Escobar, the two brothers that ran the cali cartel, that fat bitch from the cocaine cowboys era, don badalamenti, joe lehder, john gambino, rizzuto was all bigger. A new connection to the matthews was made by mr. marquez. The Mexican is who supplied matthews before he jumped bail. The mob did'nt bother the mexican. they worked with him. That big case in 59 with chin, rocco mazzie, the beck brothers, genovese. They aint going after matthews. Mob dont depend on drugs. Drug dealers do. If the higher ups really gave a shit that matthews was cutting into there own business all they gotta do is drop a dime. Roy cohen puts pressure on some big mick in LE and the law takes care a frank matthews. None a them moolies was ever a problem for cosa nostra. They was small potatoes with no butter. See what im saying? Plenty a blacks and spanish gangsters would slice there bosses neck if the mob told them to. And they take over. Nobody hangs together. Green is the color side everybody is on.

JIGGS

Outside of Escobar and Carlos Lehder, no one you named was touching Matthews. At least not as an American dealing drugs in America. Escobar, the Ochoa’s, and Riina were bigger, but I don’t consider them American, even though much of their product went to America. Baldalimenti definitelty wasn’t bigger. Griselda Blanco worked for Escobar and the Ochoas. She was like 4th in the pecking order. She had a bigger body count than almost anyone but she was did not have the clientele that Matthews had. The only other American born dealer that was in Matthews weight class in the 1960s and 70s was Eddie Jackson out of Detroit. And that was because they were the only two dealers that were able to find connects outside of Cosa Nostra. Everyone else was going thru the Italians or some other proxy. The Feds say at his peak Matthews was the primary supplier of heroin in **every** major city on the east coast. By 1970, he was plugged in directly with the French Connection thru his connects in Venezuela.

And to your point about the mob choosing to drop a dime on Matthews If they really felt he was competition...there is more than one credible journalist that thinks that’s exactly what they did. Because the story of how the Feds even found out who Matthews was is flimsy at best.

There is no one from that era (mid 60s to mid 70s) that was touching Matthews. At least not in the US. He not only controlled the distribution in like 25-30 states, he had more cash on hand than anyone the government at the time had ever heard of. What’s the most cash on hand any major drug dealer was accused of having in the US? Mob guy or otherwise? There are informants that have Matthews himself showing up to deals with $6M in cash in the 60s, and bragging about how it was nothing. The Feds say he disappeared with his girlfriend and at least $20M in cash. And they 100000% still think he’s alive because when former Baltimore drug dealer Shorty Buise died a few years ago, the Feds sent a ton of agents to the funeral because they thought Matthews was gonna be there. When they didn’t see him the handed out “WANTED” posters with Matthews picture on them.

I would like to see your sources and who all those incredible journalists are. Its all bullshit man. Urban legend. the feds did not say that he left with 20 million. Its a rumor or guestimation they may have repeated. NOBODY knows. Which is why its easy for people to make things up. Theres no way a shine is bigger in the distribution than the tongs, cuban/latin cartels operating in the states, or a compare who has access to smack or flake ready to go. You don't think people were coming from other states to cherry hill nj? That guy Ron chesapeake who wrote about frank lucas, bumpy and matthews is full a shit. The dea is full a shit. dea typed up a report talking about an organozation called purple gang from east harlem and they didnt exist. ron is the one who came up with matthews skipping town with 20 million and the atlanta meeting in 71 being about all the black and spamish dealers making there own cosa nostra. how the fuck does he know? He wasnt there. Neither was the feds. there watching them but not listening in. Informants? Cmon. Thats a fairy tale. Its a story to sell books and try to play expert and fortune teller. The proof? Where the fuck are they? all those dealers? They didnt last 5 years on the street. Dont fall for the harlem shuffle these kids now a days are promoting. According to them the moolinyan are who hit anastasia. There also the ones spreading that bogus lie about big paul being upset matthews was living on todd hill. Big paul dont know who the fuck that is. Nor does carlo gambino. Why the fuck would they? Matthews is for someone in tommy agros crew to know. if that. Matthews would have gotten to know chris rosenberg. Not big paul. It dont work that way. It aint real. Look into john gambino patsy conti and what the j edgar hoovers say about them. The cherry hill gambinos. Why would matthews be the only dealer pushing junk in more than one state? And there is no way this guy would publicly threaten gambino and big paul or any other made guy. No way. They killed Mcbratney because they THOUGHT he probably kidnapped manny gambino. Frank matthews is a rap video. I dont know if he was bigger than barnes (Matthews was definitely bigger than lucas) but so was a lot a drug lords at the time. Hugo "joe cuba" curbelo had the entire east coast awash in cocaine when nixon was president. From boston to miami. He owned nightclubs, car washes, supermarkets, real estate. Had interest in booking agency, record labels. Or thats what I heard. Nobody talks about him because ron cheesecake never wrote about him. Nobody asks LE about him. I saw a thing the other day on freeway rick ross. Feds and prosecutor are saying he was the biggest dealer in the u.s.a. ever. Its always somebody new. Never the dipalermos. 40 years moving junk. Because they didnt show there money wear jewlery or have stories a them walking around with 6 million in their pocket they couldnt challenge frank matthews? Nicky barns? Bullshitter frank lucas? Its prejudice against the italians is what it is.

JIGGS

Frank Matthews was a bigger drug dealer than anyone in the Gambino Family in the mid 60s to 72 when he disappeared. Period, point blank. End of story. Matthews dealing with someone like Chris Rosenberg? Lololololol that’s an absurd notion.

The Feds that that were after Matthews all ranked him as the number 1 heroin supplier in the US. They said he had bypassed the Italians and was in a league of his own.

Frank Lucas is a rap video. Nicky Barnes is a rap video. Frank Matthews had more money than God and is another solar system criminally than those guys.

He bypassed the italians?? They didnt fucking say that. Now your talking about a movie starring leroy washington. Nicky barnes was real. He was moving blow coast to coast. He was in the game 10 years. A lot longer than puff the magic dragon matthews. No way jose. No way was he on another solar system. He was here. Getting busted by the Po-lice. Your yanking my chain pally. Your just yanking my chain.

JIGGS

Nicky Barnes couldn’t touch Matthews. LOLOLOL. You cannot seriously think Barnes was in his league, can you???? Matthews was selling to like 30 different Nicky Barnes’. Matthews could’ve bought and sold Nicky and Lucas 10000 times over.

Thats based on what? "Mobsters" on the Starz channel? You got no proof other than one guy with a badge and a book writer stroking Matthews legend. Your buying into the whole Black Mafia shtick. Its a mafia blackface act. Cmooooon let it go. Matthews was on the street for 3 hours and swam to cuba. Nicky was on top from 70-79. The reason one guy (a writer) made the claim that matthews had a network in 21 states was because police doing the surveillance ran license plates a the cars that came to franks house and found they were from 21 different states. That dont mean smack is being sold in 21 states. Those cars or plates could be stolen. A common ruse used by mules. NJ guy with plates from another state and the dea is looking for the vehicles owner in nebraska. Frank matthews was a blip on the street and poof. He was gone.

JIGGS

[JIGGS]

Ruby grew up on Chicago’s West Side, the Lawndale area and hung around with future Outfit enforcers such as the infamous Patrick bros, Yaras bros and Irvin Weiner.

Years later Ruby was involved in Local 20467 of the Scrap Iron and Junk Handlers Union, in which the crime syndicate showed an interest and some say that Ruby was the connection. Records provided by the Social Security Administration indicate that Ruby was employed by the union from late 1937 until early 1940, and worked as a union organizer and negotiated with employers on its behalf.

The union's president and Ruby's real boss at the time was Outfit enforcer and union racketeer Paul Red Dorfman. Back in the old days of Prohibition, Dorfman worked as an enforcer for Sam Hunt, Ralph Pierce and the Capone gang. At the time Hunt and Pierce led the main enforcement squad for the gang during the 1928 elections in the 20th Ward.

Another of Ruby's close associates in the union was John Martin, also a killer and Outfit associate who shared control over the organization together with Dorfman.

In 1939, Martin murdered the union's secretary treasurer who in turn tried to expose the whole scheme. Besides that, the whole situation still brought a lot of heat over the union and story goes that the control over the union should’ve been given to Ruby, but that didn’t happen because he was allegedly unable to devote himself further to union activities, left its employ, devoted himself to bookmaking and after serving in the army, in 46 he returned to Chicago and quickly went to Dallas.

The main reason for that was that during the mid 1940's a whole contingent of Outfit members went down to Dallas to take over all bookmaking operations. One of those guys was Sam Yaras, brother of Dave Yaras, who in turn knew Ruby since day one. According to Dave himself, he knew Ruby as "Sparky," a young hustler and fight fan from Division and Damen Street area. Yaras also stated that his brother Sam was acquainted with Ruby and probably did business together. By 1947 the whole invasion was cancelled because of the conflict which occurred back in Chicago at the time. Most of the Outfit guys returned home, except for Sam and Ruby.

Some years later after the JFK assassination, all of Ruby's old criminal associates were questioned by investigators and all of them confirmed knowing Ruby since kids but denied any further contacts through later years. When the investigators questioned Dave Yaras, his brother Sam was already dead and so there wasnt much to talk about.

Reports later showed that Ruby had contacted Weiner in October 1963 and also made few telephone calls to both Patrick and Yaras. But for “unknown” reasons the Warren Commission investigators credulously accepted the word of these lying and murderous Chicago hoodlums and accepted the "fact" that Ruby had no underworld ties. Case closed

Could the mob change the parade route? Or eliminate the protection for the President? Could the mob send Oswald to Russia and get him back? Get the FBl, the CIA and the Dallas Police to mess up the investigation? Get the Warren Commission appointed to cover it up? Wreck the autopsy? Influence the national media to go to sleep? Since when has the mob used anything but .38's for hits up close? The mob wouldn't have the guts or the power for something of this magnitude. Assassins need payrolls, schedules, times, orders. This was a military-style ambush. A coup d'état with Lyndon Johnson waiting in the wings.


Pogo

Your talking about our government!

JIGGS