Any Questions for Chicago Frank Calabrese Jr.?

[Moscone65]

You guys mockery of gangster bb is juvenile and unfounded. Yes there are some wackos on there, but alot of decent posters, which is also the case here. I have found alot of information and articles there that never even get mentioned here, and vice versa.

[Pete]

You guys mockery of gangster bb is juvenile and unfounded. Yes there are some wackos on there, but alot of decent posters, which is also the case here. I have found alot of information and articles there that never even get mentioned here, and vice versa.

Who’s you guys? I saw one person mention that forum.

[Wiseguy]

You guys mockery of gangster bb is juvenile and unfounded. Yes there are some wackos on there, but alot of decent posters, which is also the case here. I have found alot of information and articles there that never even get mentioned here, and vice versa.

Don't know how long you've read that board but it's a joke. So, naturally, anyone who thinks the Genovese family has 20-30 members and Michael Franzese sent anyone $4 billion should feel rather comfortable there.

[Confederate]

Keep in mind informers do make up things to sound more important or to lead them in the wrong direction. They also tell the truth on a lot of things so it’s hard to say what’s what

Same applies to Nick Calabrese. He could have "guessed" or even 'invented" a few things that could never be proven wrong to embellish his story & since the Feds liked what they were hearing, they would not have challenged it unless the story hurt their case.
Nick Calabrese also told the truth on a lot of things that could be proven. So, in conclusion, you can't take everything he said to be 100% accurate.

Sure he could have been mistaken on some things. The outfit was known for people from a certain crew not knowing the guys in the other crews. He did seem to have a good handle on admin and who the various capos were tho. I just go back to he was very specific about aiuppa hand picking carlisi and cerone handpicking difronzo for boss and underboss to take over in 86. And he was very clear on the succession of bosses. Keep this in mind at the spilotro hit the guys upstairs when it happened were carlisi, difronzo, ferriola, and marcello. Ferriola was obviously important it’s just hard to nail down what he actually was. Another interesting thing If you
Listen to the wiretaps in the days before the spilotro hits marcello was calling infelice to set up meetings between carlisi and ferriola. It’s clear from the calls that carlisi was telling him where and when he wanted to meet him which shows a position of power. If ferriola was the boss carlisi wouldn’t call and say you need to meet me at this date and time. The boss sets the agenda

Yes, I do remember reading that transcript about the meeting of the 4 of them. There's a surveillance picture of the 4 of them together. Infelice was the tallest. lol
That's a good point about who called the meeting. It is also logical that Carlisi & DiFronzo would represent Auippa/Cerone. I just don't understand why Roemer would say he had an Informant at the meeting & Ferriola was named the Boss for a short while before he got sick? Also, I don't understand Nick Calabrese saying the opposite that Ferriola wasn't even a Capo? We have two completely opposite stories.
Ferriola was AT LEAST definitely a Capo. There is no question. That's why I would like to hear Junior's opinion about Ferriola & also maybe Frank Cullotta's opinion about Ferriola because he is a little bit of a mystery to say the least.

[Villain]

Larner was certainly a major player, but billions? Probably not.

I completely agree and i think we can easily prove it. Even though they really managed to generate a lot of cash, still i dont think that all that money went into the Mobs pocket. You see, according to government files, during the late 60s, the feds constantly saw Larner or Les Kruse travelling to Brazil, followed by other high profile faces such as Giancana and Eddie Vogel.

Soon they found out about two companies being opened up there such as the Touristal and the second one was called the Valley of Brazil and so these two allegedly Mob-connected firms held a protective shield on the market because they were protected by the local regime. This was their biggest deal at the time.

Later the US goverment declared that the deal between the Mob and Brazil’s top administration profited between 100 and 150 million dollars, but with the help of local US mob-connected firms, the records later showed that the two companies together were making shipments of various types of coin or vending machines between $300,000 and $500,000 every three or four months. So if we calculate it in todays money, its around 2 and a half mil.

So again according to todays standards, in one year they probably generated around 5 or 6 million dollars BUT the problem is that 90% of that cash went in many different directions, while only 10% probably went into the Mobs pocket, and we are not talking about Chicago only since other families were also involved in the scheme, such as the Genoveses and the Tampa family.

So lets say that the scheme lasted for 10 years and they generated around 60 million dollars (unlikely but still), again according to today's standards, which proves that the "billion dollar" statement is quite far fetched.

[MichaelGiovanni]

You guys mockery of gangster bb is juvenile and unfounded. Yes there are some wackos on there, but alot of decent posters, which is also the case here. I have found alot of information and articles there that never even get mentioned here, and vice versa.

Truth.

[Confederate]

Larner was certainly a major player, but billions? Probably not.

I completely agree and i think we can easily prove it. Even though they really managed to generate a lot of cash, still i dont think that all that money went into the Mobs pocket. You see, according to government files, during the late 60s, the feds constantly saw Larner or Les Kruse travelling to Brazil, followed by other high profile faces such as Giancana and Eddie Vogel.

Soon they found out about two companies being opened up there such as the Touristal and the second one was called the Valley of Brazil and so these two allegedly Mob-connected firms held a protective shield on the market because they were protected by the local regime. This was their biggest deal at the time.

Later the US goverment declared that the deal between the Mob and Brazil’s top administration profited between 100 and 150 million dollars, but with the help of local US mob-connected firms, the records later showed that the two companies together were making shipments of various types of coin or vending machines between $300,000 and $500,000 every three or four months. So if we calculate it in todays money, its around 2 and a half mil.

So again according to todays standards, in one year they probably generated around 5 or 6 million dollars BUT the problem is that 90% of that cash went in many different directions, while only 10% probably went into the Mobs pocket, and we are not talking about Chicago only since other families were also involved in the scheme, such as the Genoveses and the Tampa family.

So lets say that the scheme lasted for 10 years and they generated around 60 million dollars (unlikely but still), again according to today's standards, which proves that the "billion dollar" statement is quite far fetched.

When dollar figures are thrown around about Mob guys, those figures are completely misunderstood, inaccurate & way exaggerated into non-reality. To get closer to reality, it has been suggested to use the 10% rule. In other words, whatever is said about a mob guy personally putting a certain amount of money in his pocket for himself & his family, 10% of that way exaggerated figure is much closer to the truth. Now, after he gets busted, has to pay high legal fees, gets fined or has the Government confiscate some of his money, whatever may be left on the street is "taken over" by a few other Mob guys. That is CLOSER to reality over 98% of the time.

[Frank]

2 side notes that have been brought up. First, I wonder if Roemers CI at that meeting is the same CI and one of the two that came up in the Sarno case. Also LaPietra saying that it was a cardinal sin and should have been dealt with, about Frank Snr bringing his sons into the life. I got to believe there was no Outfit rule against that. Nothing has ever come up about Lee Magnifichi bringing his son Mike into the life. Mike was the driver and golfing partners with several of the bosses when he was young.

[Villain]

Also LaPietra saying that it was a cardinal sin and should have been dealt with, about Frank Snr bringing his sons into the life. I got to believe there was no Outfit rule against that. Nothing has ever come up about Lee Magnifichi bringing his son Mike into the life. Mike was the driver and golfing partners with several of the bosses when he was young.

Same story goes with the Carusos, DiCaros or Nuzzos and many other members from different Chicago Italian families, especially from the old days. Even some of the non-Italian members of the Outfit did the same thing, such as the Curry and the Guzik families, meaning they brought their own sons into the life, like for example after his father's death which occurred in 1970, Robert Curry inherited his dad's interests around Joliet and Will County

[Pete]

2 side notes that have been brought up. First, I wonder if Roemers CI at that meeting is the same CI and one of the two that came up in the Sarno case. Also LaPietra saying that it was a cardinal sin and should have been dealt with, about Frank Snr bringing his sons into the life. I got to believe there was no Outfit rule against that. Nothing has ever come up about Lee Magnifichi bringing his son Mike into the life. Mike was the driver and golfing partners with several of the bosses when he was young.

Actually something did come up about that. Difronzo said lee was wrong for bringing michael into the life. Obviously there was no set rule against in general but bringing your kid into the life was more the exception than the rule

[Frank]

2 side notes that have been brought up. First, I wonder if Roemers CI at that meeting is the same CI and one of the two that came up in the Sarno case. Also LaPietra saying that it was a cardinal sin and should have been dealt with, about Frank Snr bringing his sons into the life. I got to believe there was no Outfit rule against that. Nothing has ever come up about Lee Magnifichi bringing his son Mike into the life. Mike was the driver and golfing partners with several of the bosses when he was young.

Actually something did come up about that. Difronzo said lee was wrong for bringing michael into the life. Obviously there was no set rule against in general but bringing your kid into the life was more the exception than the rule

I can see where alot of these guys, being good parents.wouldnt want their kids going down that path.That it was a personal opinion. Maybe La Pietra didn't like it and felt Frank Snr more or less forced his kids into the life. Maybe he felt they were not cut out for the life.

[Villain]

I think that this whole family thing is a littile bit of a "jing-jang" situation, meaning one long time Outfit boss, who in turn was also a "good" parent and a family guy and even though one of his kids was never involed in the life, still he became a hippie and later ended up being a junkie. In the end that same Outfit boss was against narcotics for real and ordered a lot of hits because of that same personal situation...

[Pete]

I think that this whole family thing is a littile bit of a "jing-jang" situation, meaning one long time Outfit boss, who in turn was also a "good" parent and a family guy and even though one of his kids was never involed in the life, still he became a hippie and later ended up being a junkie. In the end that same Outfit boss was against narcotics for real and ordered a lot of hits because of that same personal situation...

Are you talking about difronzo?

[Villain]

Not DiFronzo, although the individual that im talking about came from that same crew

[electricslim]

Also LaPietra saying that it was a cardinal sin and should have been dealt with, about Frank Snr bringing his sons into the life. I got to believe there was no Outfit rule against that. Nothing has ever come up about Lee Magnifichi bringing his son Mike into the life. Mike was the driver and golfing partners with several of the bosses when he was young.

Same story goes with the Carusos, DiCaros or Nuzzos and many other members from different Chicago Italian families, especially from the old days. Even some of the non-Italian members of the Outfit did the same thing, such as the Curry and the Guzik families, meaning they brought their own sons into the life, like for example after his father's death which occurred in 1970, Robert Curry inherited his dad's interests around Joliet and Will County

In many cases fathers did not bring their sons in, and in fact may not have even wanted them involved. However, many sons did get involved because of the example set, and because of the people they grew up around. In that sense I think Frank Sr. was not the norm.