Penissi and the size of the Luccheses today

[Flushing]

“How did you go bankrupt?"
Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”

― Ernest Hemingway

I think we're going to start to see all the families dissipate rather quickly now in the 2020's. It's been a gradual, closely monitored decline through the 00's and 10's. Here we are at 2020 and traffic cameras and cosplayers like antifa rule the streets. Not only are the italian neighborhoods largely vanished, hyper-gentrification and the real estate asset bubble is removing every TRACE that italians USED TO live there. (see: Our Lady of Loreto Church, East New York: below)

our lady of loreto 1.PNG

loreto 2.PNG

[johnny_scootch]

They knocked that church down a few years ago and it closed almost a decade before that. Not sure what the demolition of an old Italian church in a neighborhood that hasn’t been Italian for 50 years has to do with the mafia’s viability in NY. If the blacks in Brownsville were catholic and not Protestant that church would be as full as it ever was.

[johnny_scootch]

Check the numbers Flushing while overall it might be in decline there’s no sign of the mafia ‘dissipating quickly’ in the next decade.

[Bklyn21]

It's important to note that some crews are more active than others. Even going back to the 1980s and 1990s with the Colombos, only a few crews and captains had a solid amount of younger guys under them; Greg Scarpa, Joey Amato, Billy Cutolo and, to an extent, Tommy Gioeli.

When you look at it this way, you start to notice that families might have "pockets" of activity/membership. For example, the Colombos might have close to 100 members, but that might not be represented by each crew. Let's use 2010 as an example. Most of the family's bread-and-butter criminal activities took place in just about one crew; Teddy Persico Jr.'s crew, led by Anthony Russo at the time. As noted in court papers, they were family's main "youth" wing, just like Trucchio for the Gambinos around the same time period. Other crews, like Benjamin Castellazzo's crew, were mostly older, or inactive, guys.

This is also represented in induction ceremonies. For the Colombos, we see periods of time when it seems like only certain crews are getting inducted. There was a phase in the early-to-mid 2000s where a lot of Long Island guys under Gioeli/Franzese were inducted, and captains like Ralph Lombardo or Benjamin Castellazzo were hardly putting anybody up for membership. Then, busts in 2008 weakened the Long Island crew, and pretty much no Long Islanders have been inducted since then.

My point is that it's deceiving to judge a crime family on membership alone, when every mobster, and every crew, is completely different and independent from one another.

That's why I supposed that you rarely hear a peep about half the membership of any particular family . You have all these guys on the list as inducted members but never ever hear these guys arrested , Brought up on charges or anything else. If they weren't on a chart you would have no idea they exist . What I mean is you only have a handful of crews , Members , Associates doing all the work and who are genuinely active in that sense . Just like you said above . It's mostly the same guys putting in the work , Proposing people, Going to prison etc etc . I always wonder ? The Gambinos have over 21 crews but you only hear of less than half being active , Like where the fuck are the rest of the family ?

Believe it or not some of these guys are smart criminals. Just because you don't see an indictment of half the gambino capos doesn't mean they aren't active, when was the last bust in the Locascio/Campos crew, wasn't it 05 for the fraud case? Yet they were active the whole time making millions

I believe that as well , But still there's Alotta guys no one hears about ever

[bert]

If there are a lot of guys no one ever hears about ever, then they are not there.

[Bklyn21]

If there are a lot of guys no one ever hears about ever, then they are not there.

They're on the charts but most from certain families are never heard of in the news , Never arrested or indicted for anything , Not saying they aren't members or anything just majority of the time it's mostly the same guys being investigated , Causing the most noise and being targeted for one reason or another

[Targenmantarian]

A lotta them just work a legit job or own a real business and dedicate the bulk of their time to that.

No one gets killed for light envelopes anymore so they add what they can and do a little booking or some other low risk stuff and just live their lives.

Those types of guys maybe go to jail once and that's it. So they'll never be in the news.

They arent inactive. But they also aren't in call to fork over a 100k cash package or go shoot a debtor.

That's dozens of guys in every family. Some have one foot in and one out. And some are older and went through prison or near death as younger guys and don't want any part of the craziness now. They have no ambition to rise up the ladder or get super rich. They just live their mediocre mob lives and don't go to jail.

[maxiestern11]

A lotta them just work a legit job or own a real business and dedicate the bulk of their time to that.

No one gets killed for light envelopes anymore so they add what they can and do a little booking or some other low risk stuff and just live their lives.

Those types of guys maybe go to jail once and that's it. So they'll never be in the news.

They arent inactive. But they also aren't in call to fork over a 100k cash package or go shoot a debtor.

That's dozens of guys in every family. Some have one foot in and one out. And some are older and went through prison or near death as younger guys and don't want any part of the craziness now. They have no ambition to rise up the ladder or get super rich. They just live their mediocre mob lives and don't go to jail.

Well said

[Targenmantarian]

A lotta them just work a legit job or own a real business and dedicate the bulk of their time to that.

No one gets killed for light envelopes anymore so they add what they can and do a little booking or some other low risk stuff and just live their lives.

Those types of guys maybe go to jail once and that's it. So they'll never be in the news.

They arent inactive. But they also aren't in call to fork over a 100k cash package or go shoot a debtor.

That's dozens of guys in every family. Some have one foot in and one out. And some are older and went through prison or near death as younger guys and don't want any part of the craziness now. They have no ambition to rise up the ladder or get super rich. They just live their mediocre mob lives and don't go to jail.

Well said

History is circular. Back in the day a lotta guys had a completely legit gig in addition to being members.

And I don't even mean owning a large business. Like a candy store or even being a trucker or a baker or a mailman.

Now it's coming full circle you see guys like Cerbone who definitely work. Seccafico wasn't on his way to a no show job at 4am when they killed him. He was def working for that 50 to 80k a year.

Not that you don't have a lotta high living guys like Joey or Roccaforte who always have cash but never go to work.

But cautious guys who don't want to do time just stay peripheral.

[TommyGambino]

It's important to note that some crews are more active than others. Even going back to the 1980s and 1990s with the Colombos, only a few crews and captains had a solid amount of younger guys under them; Greg Scarpa, Joey Amato, Billy Cutolo and, to an extent, Tommy Gioeli.

When you look at it this way, you start to notice that families might have "pockets" of activity/membership. For example, the Colombos might have close to 100 members, but that might not be represented by each crew. Let's use 2010 as an example. Most of the family's bread-and-butter criminal activities took place in just about one crew; Teddy Persico Jr.'s crew, led by Anthony Russo at the time. As noted in court papers, they were family's main "youth" wing, just like Trucchio for the Gambinos around the same time period. Other crews, like Benjamin Castellazzo's crew, were mostly older, or inactive, guys.

This is also represented in induction ceremonies. For the Colombos, we see periods of time when it seems like only certain crews are getting inducted. There was a phase in the early-to-mid 2000s where a lot of Long Island guys under Gioeli/Franzese were inducted, and captains like Ralph Lombardo or Benjamin Castellazzo were hardly putting anybody up for membership. Then, busts in 2008 weakened the Long Island crew, and pretty much no Long Islanders have been inducted since then.

My point is that it's deceiving to judge a crime family on membership alone, when every mobster, and every crew, is completely different and independent from one another.

That's why I supposed that you rarely hear a peep about half the membership of any particular family . You have all these guys on the list as inducted members but never ever hear these guys arrested , Brought up on charges or anything else. If they weren't on a chart you would have no idea they exist . What I mean is you only have a handful of crews , Members , Associates doing all the work and who are genuinely active in that sense . Just like you said above . It's mostly the same guys putting in the work , Proposing people, Going to prison etc etc . I always wonder ? The Gambinos have over 21 crews but you only hear of less than half being active , Like where the fuck are the rest of the family ?

Believe it or not some of these guys are smart criminals. Just because you don't see an indictment of half the gambino capos doesn't mean they aren't active, when was the last bust in the Locascio/Campos crew, wasn't it 05 for the fraud case? Yet they were active the whole time making millions

Agreed. Nobody, myself included, knew the scope and reach of Joey Amato until the indictment. If that's how big they are in Staten Island, they have to be bigger in Brooklyn and Long Island, their historic powerbases.

That being said, we know there's been a drift overtime of mobsters migrating across the Verranzano Bridge from Brooklyn to S.I.

Yeah, first time I heard Amato's name was through Capeci last year, was shocked they had such a presence in staten island, same with Frank Camuso, was he in any of the charts or even spoke about on the forums before? Yet he's described as very powerful, i wonder, are they the two most powerful crews on staten island?

[gohnjotti]

It's important to note that some crews are more active than others. Even going back to the 1980s and 1990s with the Colombos, only a few crews and captains had a solid amount of younger guys under them; Greg Scarpa, Joey Amato, Billy Cutolo and, to an extent, Tommy Gioeli.

When you look at it this way, you start to notice that families might have "pockets" of activity/membership. For example, the Colombos might have close to 100 members, but that might not be represented by each crew. Let's use 2010 as an example. Most of the family's bread-and-butter criminal activities took place in just about one crew; Teddy Persico Jr.'s crew, led by Anthony Russo at the time. As noted in court papers, they were family's main "youth" wing, just like Trucchio for the Gambinos around the same time period. Other crews, like Benjamin Castellazzo's crew, were mostly older, or inactive, guys.

This is also represented in induction ceremonies. For the Colombos, we see periods of time when it seems like only certain crews are getting inducted. There was a phase in the early-to-mid 2000s where a lot of Long Island guys under Gioeli/Franzese were inducted, and captains like Ralph Lombardo or Benjamin Castellazzo were hardly putting anybody up for membership. Then, busts in 2008 weakened the Long Island crew, and pretty much no Long Islanders have been inducted since then.

My point is that it's deceiving to judge a crime family on membership alone, when every mobster, and every crew, is completely different and independent from one another.

That's why I supposed that you rarely hear a peep about half the membership of any particular family . You have all these guys on the list as inducted members but never ever hear these guys arrested , Brought up on charges or anything else. If they weren't on a chart you would have no idea they exist . What I mean is you only have a handful of crews , Members , Associates doing all the work and who are genuinely active in that sense . Just like you said above . It's mostly the same guys putting in the work , Proposing people, Going to prison etc etc . I always wonder ? The Gambinos have over 21 crews but you only hear of less than half being active , Like where the fuck are the rest of the family ?

Believe it or not some of these guys are smart criminals. Just because you don't see an indictment of half the gambino capos doesn't mean they aren't active, when was the last bust in the Locascio/Campos crew, wasn't it 05 for the fraud case? Yet they were active the whole time making millions

Agreed. Nobody, myself included, knew the scope and reach of Joey Amato until the indictment. If that's how big they are in Staten Island, they have to be bigger in Brooklyn and Long Island, their historic powerbases.

That being said, we know there's been a drift overtime of mobsters migrating across the Verranzano Bridge from Brooklyn to S.I.

Yeah, first time I heard Amato's name was through Capeci last year, was shocked they had such a presence in staten island, same with Frank Camuso, was he in any of the charts or even spoke about on the forums before? Yet he's described as very powerful, i wonder, are they the two most powerful crews on staten island?

If I had to lay down money I would say the Bonanno family's crew in Staten Island was marginally bigger. Since Amato was running his family's crew in SI from about 2011 or thereafter, the Bonannos had an enormous crew led by Peter Lovaglio, John Zancocchio, and Joseph Sabella at various times. I remember reading a GL News article citing Lovaglio's testimony about the size of the crew, and how it extended into Florida. Big John Castellucci of the Luccheses also ran the family's Brooklyn crew out of Staten Island, and had a cigar store on the Island, and that was probably comparable in size to the Colombo crew.

[TommyNoto]

It's important to note that some crews are more active than others. Even going back to the 1980s and 1990s with the Colombos, only a few crews and captains had a solid amount of younger guys under them; Greg Scarpa, Joey Amato, Billy Cutolo and, to an extent, Tommy Gioeli.

When you look at it this way, you start to notice that families might have "pockets" of activity/membership. For example, the Colombos might have close to 100 members, but that might not be represented by each crew. Let's use 2010 as an example. Most of the family's bread-and-butter criminal activities took place in just about one crew; Teddy Persico Jr.'s crew, led by Anthony Russo at the time. As noted in court papers, they were family's main "youth" wing, just like Trucchio for the Gambinos around the same time period. Other crews, like Benjamin Castellazzo's crew, were mostly older, or inactive, guys.

This is also represented in induction ceremonies. For the Colombos, we see periods of time when it seems like only certain crews are getting inducted. There was a phase in the early-to-mid 2000s where a lot of Long Island guys under Gioeli/Franzese were inducted, and captains like Ralph Lombardo or Benjamin Castellazzo were hardly putting anybody up for membership. Then, busts in 2008 weakened the Long Island crew, and pretty much no Long Islanders have been inducted since then.

My point is that it's deceiving to judge a crime family on membership alone, when every mobster, and every crew, is completely different and independent from one another.

That's why I supposed that you rarely hear a peep about half the membership of any particular family . You have all these guys on the list as inducted members but never ever hear these guys arrested , Brought up on charges or anything else. If they weren't on a chart you would have no idea they exist . What I mean is you only have a handful of crews , Members , Associates doing all the work and who are genuinely active in that sense . Just like you said above . It's mostly the same guys putting in the work , Proposing people, Going to prison etc etc . I always wonder ? The Gambinos have over 21 crews but you only hear of less than half being active , Like where the fuck are the rest of the family ?

Believe it or not some of these guys are smart criminals. Just because you don't see an indictment of half the gambino capos doesn't mean they aren't active, when was the last bust in the Locascio/Campos crew, wasn't it 05 for the fraud case? Yet they were active the whole time making millions

Agreed. Nobody, myself included, knew the scope and reach of Joey Amato until the indictment. If that's how big they are in Staten Island, they have to be bigger in Brooklyn and Long Island, their historic powerbases.

That being said, we know there's been a drift overtime of mobsters migrating across the Verranzano Bridge from Brooklyn to S.I.

Yeah, first time I heard Amato's name was through Capeci last year, was shocked they had such a presence in staten island, same with Frank Camuso, was he in any of the charts or even spoke about on the forums before? Yet he's described as very powerful, i wonder, are they the two most powerful crews on staten island?

If I had to lay down money I would say the Bonanno family's crew in Staten Island was marginally bigger. Since Amato was running his family's crew in SI from about 2011 or thereafter, the Bonannos had an enormous crew led by Peter Lovaglio, John Zancocchio, and Joseph Sabella at various times. I remember reading a GL News article citing Lovaglio's testimony about the size of the crew, and how it extended into Florida. Big John Castellucci of the Luccheses also ran the family's Brooklyn crew out of Staten Island, and had a cigar store on the Island, and that was probably comparable in size to the Colombo crew.

I don’t know who has the most $ / power but Bonanno easily have the most heads in S I . They do more street shit tho , violent

[gohnjotti]

It's important to note that some crews are more active than others. Even going back to the 1980s and 1990s with the Colombos, only a few crews and captains had a solid amount of younger guys under them; Greg Scarpa, Joey Amato, Billy Cutolo and, to an extent, Tommy Gioeli.

When you look at it this way, you start to notice that families might have "pockets" of activity/membership. For example, the Colombos might have close to 100 members, but that might not be represented by each crew. Let's use 2010 as an example. Most of the family's bread-and-butter criminal activities took place in just about one crew; Teddy Persico Jr.'s crew, led by Anthony Russo at the time. As noted in court papers, they were family's main "youth" wing, just like Trucchio for the Gambinos around the same time period. Other crews, like Benjamin Castellazzo's crew, were mostly older, or inactive, guys.

This is also represented in induction ceremonies. For the Colombos, we see periods of time when it seems like only certain crews are getting inducted. There was a phase in the early-to-mid 2000s where a lot of Long Island guys under Gioeli/Franzese were inducted, and captains like Ralph Lombardo or Benjamin Castellazzo were hardly putting anybody up for membership. Then, busts in 2008 weakened the Long Island crew, and pretty much no Long Islanders have been inducted since then.

My point is that it's deceiving to judge a crime family on membership alone, when every mobster, and every crew, is completely different and independent from one another.

That's why I supposed that you rarely hear a peep about half the membership of any particular family . You have all these guys on the list as inducted members but never ever hear these guys arrested , Brought up on charges or anything else. If they weren't on a chart you would have no idea they exist . What I mean is you only have a handful of crews , Members , Associates doing all the work and who are genuinely active in that sense . Just like you said above . It's mostly the same guys putting in the work , Proposing people, Going to prison etc etc . I always wonder ? The Gambinos have over 21 crews but you only hear of less than half being active , Like where the fuck are the rest of the family ?

Believe it or not some of these guys are smart criminals. Just because you don't see an indictment of half the gambino capos doesn't mean they aren't active, when was the last bust in the Locascio/Campos crew, wasn't it 05 for the fraud case? Yet they were active the whole time making millions

Agreed. Nobody, myself included, knew the scope and reach of Joey Amato until the indictment. If that's how big they are in Staten Island, they have to be bigger in Brooklyn and Long Island, their historic powerbases.

That being said, we know there's been a drift overtime of mobsters migrating across the Verranzano Bridge from Brooklyn to S.I.

Yeah, first time I heard Amato's name was through Capeci last year, was shocked they had such a presence in staten island, same with Frank Camuso, was he in any of the charts or even spoke about on the forums before? Yet he's described as very powerful, i wonder, are they the two most powerful crews on staten island?

If I had to lay down money I would say the Bonanno family's crew in Staten Island was marginally bigger. Since Amato was running his family's crew in SI from about 2011 or thereafter, the Bonannos had an enormous crew led by Peter Lovaglio, John Zancocchio, and Joseph Sabella at various times. I remember reading a GL News article citing Lovaglio's testimony about the size of the crew, and how it extended into Florida. Big John Castellucci of the Luccheses also ran the family's Brooklyn crew out of Staten Island, and had a cigar store on the Island, and that was probably comparable in size to the Colombo crew.

I don’t know who has the most $ / power but Bonanno easily have the most heads in S I . They do more street shit tho , violent

Actually yeah, I shouldn't have said "marginally bigger." The Bonanno head count in S.I. must be far more than the Colombos.

[Rocco]

the pernas and taccettas are cousins right?

Yes. Also related to the Ricciardi's.

Thanks. I thought so (on both). When Tommy flipped did he give alot up on the Pernas?

yes he rolled on everyone. perna and taccettas went back to Brooklyn and tommy was on his own with his crew when they all got picked up. tumac was in jail already

[Wiseguy]

It seems the Gambinos have traditionally had the biggest presence on Staten Island. Wouldn't be surprised if that was still the case.