Is Pittsburgh alive?

[stubbs]

Pittsburgh never made anyone and there was also the rumor that they had their charter pulled after the 1991 fiasco.

But more to the point they literally were so stingy with buttons and kept it so close that eventually they killed sjy continuity. Because honestly there is a large enough pool of Italian crooks who are mostly huge drug dealers but also have gambling and escort services that they could sustain a good sized small family.

But they were really closed up and greedy. They had guys who were 75 years old who had brought them money and done time and would never be made. Dozens of those.

People just broke off cause after a while they were like "fuck you".

This seems to be what happened with most of the smaller families around the country, particularly New Orleans. They just never made any new blood and eventually the family died out due to attrition.

I wonder if there’s a correlation to when the books closed in the 50s in NYC, meaning that’s around when most of the smaller families stopped adding new members. Obviously the books reopened in NY in the mid/late 70s, but by then the smaller families never really added new members.

I know Nola seems to still have a decent amount of illegal bookmaking, so it’s not like the money on the streets has completely dried up.

[Targenmantarian]

All of these wounds are self inflicted.

There are still willing Italians who hustle in all these cities who would kick up and whatnot.

Are they the caliber of Luciano and Anastasia or even Bellomo?

No not at all.

But they all make six figures or more selling drugs and doing numbers and running escort stuff etc. Nothing crazy. But they make money in every single city that way and the burbs.

But it's not like beyond a few bosses these guys were visionaries. Accardo Luciano Gambino Capone...more but a few.

Most of them just took the money they could and kept membership tight cause that's what benefitted them.

Not that you let anyone in. But letting no one in is just as counterproductive.

That's why Detroit and Buffalo are still somewhat alive. Sbeey ten years or so they make some of their kids.

The cities that stopped just stopped.

And once you go below 40 active soldiers or even 30 your Hold on associates is non existent.

Pittsburgh had second and third generation associates. Those guys just took their ball and left the play ground and the 80 year olds had no one in their 20s to stop em.

They said in the Mike Genovese article.

One day he showed up at work and there was no one there.

[FriendofHenry]

They said in the Mike Genovese article.

One day he showed up at work and there was no one there.

The light was on but nobody was home

[Targenmantarian]

There are a few randoms in pgh.

I heard one NE guy who was made who lives here. Don't know the name. And there was another one who died recently who was a sleeper who never showed up on any charts but the streets knew he was 10000% made.

But yeah Sonny is it.

[FriendofHenry]

There are a few randoms in pgh.

I heard one NE guy who was made who lives here. Don't know the name. And there was another one who died recently who was a sleeper who never showed up on any charts but the streets knew he was 10000% made.

But yeah Sonny is it.

You're referring to Pittsburgh made men? If so, PM me and I'll tell you if I knew them.

[JCB1977]

All of these wounds are self inflicted.

There are still willing Italians who hustle in all these cities who would kick up and whatnot.

Are they the caliber of Luciano and Anastasia or even Bellomo?

No not at all.

But they all make six figures or more selling drugs and doing numbers and running escort stuff etc. Nothing crazy. But they make money in every single city that way and the burbs.

But it's not like beyond a few bosses these guys were visionaries. Accardo Luciano Gambino Capone...more but a few.

Most of them just took the money they could and kept membership tight cause that's what benefitted them.

Not that you let anyone in. But letting no one in is just as counterproductive.

That's why Detroit and Buffalo are still somewhat alive. Sbeey ten years or so they make some of their kids.

The cities that stopped just stopped.

And once you go below 40 active soldiers or even 30 your Hold on associates is non existent.

Pittsburgh had second and third generation associates. Those guys just took their ball and left the play ground and the 80 year olds had no one in their 20s to stop em.

They said in the Mike Genovese article.

One day he showed up at work and there was no one there.

Pittsburgh was on par with many families not making new blood. Cleveland, Kansas City, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Tampa, Northeast PA, etc. If you look at Pittsburgh's operating style, they were set up for territory bosses with a crew of high ranking associates. It was designed like that on purpose. High ranking associates were held in high regard. The last 5 guys made were Chucky Porter and Sonny Ciancutti in 1986, Joey Naples and Lenny Strollo in 1987 and Henry Zottola around 1990 while Porter was locked up awaiting trial. The Porter arrest crippled them and exposed a major narcotics fiasco. At their height, Pittsburgh had 55-65 members and only replenished the ones who were dying off. Key associates by 1985 who could have been made but were not were Bobby Iannelli, Frank Unis Jr., Sal & Junior Williams, Primo Mollica, August Ferrone and Freddy Corbo, John Sabatini and Anthony Murgie.

And the article you are referencing was more of an analogy made by Ed Reiser and Roger Greenbank. They were saying that by the time he died, nobody was left. Porter's information pipeline caused major damage. Porter gave yup the entire Youngstown crew/operations, Sonny Ciancutti and his operation was taken down as well. By 2000, Bazzano and Amato were not very active.

[JCB1977]

Pittsburgh never made anyone and there was also the rumor that they had their charter pulled after the 1991 fiasco.

But more to the point they literally were so stingy with buttons and kept it so close that eventually they killed sjy continuity. Because honestly there is a large enough pool of Italian crooks who are mostly huge drug dealers but also have gambling and escort services that they could sustain a good sized small family.

But they were really closed up and greedy. They had guys who were 75 years old who had brought them money and done time and would never be made. Dozens of those.

People just broke off cause after a while they were like "fuck you".

Charter pulled? What is this, the Rotary Club? Since the defection of Porter and because Pittsburgh was represented by NY Genovese Family, a freeze on bringing in new blood is more on par than having a charter pulled. Plus, Youngstown was still going strong through the 1990's and all that money was going through Zebo directly to Mike.

[Moscone65]

Kansas City was a bit different as they still had a decent bunch of younger guys and associates even up to the 80’s and early 90’s. They still have younger guy to this day although it’s disputed if there’s any family or just remnants, however the younger guys are there..

[JCB1977]

Kansas City was a bit different as they still had a decent bunch of younger guys and associates even up to the 80’s and early 90’s. They still have younger guy to this day although it’s disputed if there’s any family or just remnants, however the younger guys are there..

Same with Pittsburgh...there have been many busts since the demise of the family that are related to gambling involving former associates.

[Moscone65]

Kansas City was a bit different as they still had a decent bunch of younger guys and associates even up to the 80’s and early 90’s. They still have younger guy to this day although it’s disputed if there’s any family or just remnants, however the younger guys are there..

Same with Pittsburgh...there have been many busts since the demise of the family that are related to gambling involving former associates.

Ya but what I’m trying to say is KC imo always had more structure even up until more recently, and they made more guys. I guess it depends on the boss ect

[Targenmantarian]

It's super simple math.

If you have an organization of geriatric people or even people in their 50s and you never bring anyone in then it will die out.

There's a million reasons why but the end is always the same.

And yeah bringing people in would have changed their structure etc. But if you don't adapt then you die.

You can only afford to be insanely selective when you have vitality. Otherwise you just cease to exist.

[JCB1977]

It's super simple math.

If you have an organization of geriatric people or even people in their 50s and you never bring anyone in then it will die out.

There's a million reasons why but the end is always the same.

And yeah bringing people in would have changed their structure etc. But if you don't adapt then you die.

You can only afford to be insanely selective when you have vitality. Otherwise you just cease to exist.

Yeah...that is very obvious. No need to explain attrition, the posters on this thread are beyond that. Thanks for posting on the Steel Town, Welcome to the board.

[JCB1977]

Keep in mind that in rust belt cities, Italian immigrants weren’t flocking to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, St Louis etc because the steel industry collapsed in the very early 1970’s. Pittsburgh had the 3rd largest Southern Italian population in the 1920’s-30’s behind NY and Chicago. Railroads, steel, manufacturing, auto industry were good jobs for immigrants and southern Italians were primarily poor, uneducated laborers who flocked to Pittsburgh for the work. Over time, the demographic landscape of the city changed. Buffalo, Detroit, Northeast PA, St Louis, KC lost many manufacturing jobs hence the rackets shrunk over time. When rackets shrunk, the amount of $$ coming in from gambling and loansharking took a major hit leading eventually to narcotics trafficking and stiff sentences. Domino effect on the local economy, including the rackets.

[Pete]

All of these wounds are self inflicted.

There are still willing Italians who hustle in all these cities who would kick up and whatnot.

Are they the caliber of Luciano and Anastasia or even Bellomo?

No not at all.

But they all make six figures or more selling drugs and doing numbers and running escort stuff etc. Nothing crazy. But they make money in every single city that way and the burbs.

But it's not like beyond a few bosses these guys were visionaries. Accardo Luciano Gambino Capone...more but a few.

Most of them just took the money they could and kept membership tight cause that's what benefitted them.

Not that you let anyone in. But letting no one in is just as counterproductive.

That's why Detroit and Buffalo are still somewhat alive. Sbeey ten years or so they make some of their kids.

The cities that stopped just stopped.

And once you go below 40 active soldiers or even 30 your Hold on associates is non existent.

Pittsburgh had second and third generation associates. Those guys just took their ball and left the play ground and the 80 year olds had no one in their 20s to stop em.

They said in the Mike Genovese article.

One day he showed up at work and there was no one there.

They don’t all make six figures the New York Times did an article about brokesters many of these guys are barely scraping by

[Targenmantarian]

All of these wounds are self inflicted.

There are still willing Italians who hustle in all these cities who would kick up and whatnot.

Are they the caliber of Luciano and Anastasia or even Bellomo?

No not at all.

But they all make six figures or more selling drugs and doing numbers and running escort stuff etc. Nothing crazy. But they make money in every single city that way and the burbs.

But it's not like beyond a few bosses these guys were visionaries. Accardo Luciano Gambino Capone...more but a few.

Most of them just took the money they could and kept membership tight cause that's what benefitted them.

Not that you let anyone in. But letting no one in is just as counterproductive.

That's why Detroit and Buffalo are still somewhat alive. Sbeey ten years or so they make some of their kids.

The cities that stopped just stopped.

And once you go below 40 active soldiers or even 30 your Hold on associates is non existent.

Pittsburgh had second and third generation associates. Those guys just took their ball and left the play ground and the 80 year olds had no one in their 20s to stop em.

They said in the Mike Genovese article.

One day he showed up at work and there was no one there.

They don’t all make six figures the New York Times did an article about brokesters many of these guys are barely scraping by

I wasn't talking about broke made guys in NYC. I was talking about the dozens of successful Italian American drug dealers in every major city.

It's pretty hard not to make 275$ a day selling drugs if you're in any way competent.

That's the pool of money makers left. Very few twenty year olds that can wake up and shake down a union. They can however sell weed and coke and pills.