Salvatore Profacis (yes, plural)

[B.]

There were three Salvatore Profacis who were made into the Profaci/Colombo family:

- Salvatore Profaci Sr., brother of Joe, who appears to have been a powerful captain in the family until he died in a boating accident in the 1950s. He was a close friend of Joe Bonanno and other members of that family, and his daughter would end up marrying Bill Bonanno.

- Salvatore Profaci Jr., son of Sal Sr. and a made member in the family by the end of the 1950s, which would mean he was likely made in his late teens or early twenties. A member of the family's Jersey crew that would later be headed by his cousin, Sal Jr. died of natural causes in 1978 when he was still in his early 40s.

- Salvatore J. Profaci, son of boss Joe Profaci, who like his cousin was made at a very young age and would serve as a messenger for the Commission during the Bonanno conflict in the 1960s. He eventually took over as capo of the Colombo Jersey crew and became more well-known for his appearance on the "Goodfella" tapes with John Stanfa as well as for supporting Vic Orena during the Persico conflict. Some information says that he was shelved for being an Orena supporter, but he seems to have been less active in family affairs by that time anyway given his legal problems and other factors. Either way he seems to have been retired for a number of years. His son Joseph was also associated with the family but never made.

- Does anyone have any info on Salvatore "Sal Curtis" Profaci? He is listed as a cousin of the other Profacis and was a drug dealer in Ocean County on record with the Colombo NJ crew but I don't believe he was made. He is likely Frank Profaci's son, as he had a son named Salvatore as well, but I haven't been able to confirm it. Years ago on the RD I posted a photo that I thought was Sal J. Profaci, but I believe it was actually Frank's son Sal, the likely "Sal Curtis".

Anyone have any other bits of info on the above Sal Profacis? How about any other Sal Profacis out there? Do you know any Sal Profacis in your daily life? Is your name Sal Profaci?

[Angelo Santino]

Not sure, but the Profaci family was associated with the Mafia in Villabate in the 1890's. I want to say ones name was Ignazio and with the Fontana who was later killed by the Colombo and Genovese families in 1913. There were two Fontanas, one from Villabate and the other from Resuttana, they have been labeled cousins but there's no evidence yet to confirm that. The other Fontana was also with the Gambinos ten years earlier.

[B.]

Not sure, but the Profaci family was associated with the Mafia in Villabate in the 1890's. I want to say ones name was Ignazio and with the Fontana who was later killed by the Colombo and Genovese families in 1913. There were two Fontanas, one from Villabate and the other from Resuttana, they have been labeled cousins but there's no evidence yet to confirm that. The other Fontana was also with the Gambinos ten years earlier.

Ignazio Profaci, is that what you mean? There was an Ignazio who was another son of Frank Profaci, so it could be a name that runs in the family. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Francesco Profaci connected as well, as along with Joe and Sal's brother Frank, Sal Profaci Sr. had a son named Frank.

The Fontanas from Resuttana are Harry Fontana and his brothers, right? I remember asking you and Rick about his possible connection to Giuseppe Fontana from Villabate and also wondering if Giuseppe could have been an early leader of the future Profaci family, but it sounds like there was information that he was a captain under D'Aquila, right? Any idea if he had any Villabate men who he associated with in the US that would later be connected to the Profaci family? Given what you've discovered about Mineo being a possible leader of his own family (i.e. future Profaci family) before taking over D'Aquila's group, it makes me wonder if there was a faction of Villabate members who were under Fontana/D'Aquila and later transferred to Mineo's (Profaci's) group.

[Angelo Santino]

Not sure, but the Profaci family was associated with the Mafia in Villabate in the 1890's. I want to say ones name was Ignazio and with the Fontana who was later killed by the Colombo and Genovese families in 1913. There were two Fontanas, one from Villabate and the other from Resuttana, they have been labeled cousins but there's no evidence yet to confirm that. The other Fontana was also with the Gambinos ten years earlier.

Ignazio Profaci, is that what you mean? There was an Ignazio who was another son of Frank Profaci, so it could be a name that runs in the family. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Francesco Profaci connected as well, as along with Joe and Sal's brother Frank, Sal Profaci Sr. had a son named Frank.

The Fontanas from Resuttana are Harry Fontana and his brothers, right? I remember asking you and Rick about his possible connection to Giuseppe Fontana from Villabate and also wondering if Giuseppe could have been an early leader of the future Profaci family, but it sounds like there was information that he was a captain under D'Aquila, right? Any idea if he had any Villabate men who he associated with in the US that would later be connected to the Profaci family? Given what you've discovered about Mineo being a possible leader of his own family (i.e. future Profaci family) before taking over D'Aquila's group, it makes me wonder if there was a faction of Villabate members who were under Fontana/D'Aquila and later transferred to Mineo's (Profaci's) group.

Not in the Sangiorgi, perhaps Allegra. Antiliar would know offhand. Do you have any other surnames that the Profacis were related to? Thanks.

[Angelo Santino]

One thing also, about the Colombos. Map out where everyone lives and operates (that we know of), in the 10's, 30's and 60's they all come from South Brooklyn and below. Very few of them were active in the city or Bronx. Not making a conspiracy theory out of it, but I wondered if that was how the D'Aquilas (Gambinos) and Mineo-DiBella-Profaci (Colombo) managed to co-exist but there's no evidence of such an arrangement.

However, in the FBN Mafia book released, there's alot of names that didn't make it onto the Valachi charts, many of them came from lower Brooklyn connected with some narcotics trafficking. There's nothing from a glance that links them as Colombos but in the 1950's there were alot of unknowns.

[Dellacroce]

There was kind of an interesting gangland article written by scott burnstein last year that some of it was about sal profaci(joe profaci's son) and his connections to detroit through his sisters that each married a high ranking detroit guy, one married tony zirelli, and the other married one of the toccos-


viewtopic.php?f=29&t=192&hilit=Profaci

[B.]

One thing also, about the Colombos. Map out where everyone lives and operates (that we know of), in the 10's, 30's and 60's they all come from South Brooklyn and below. Very few of them were active in the city or Bronx. Not making a conspiracy theory out of it, but I wondered if that was how the D'Aquilas (Gambinos) and Mineo-DiBella-Profaci (Colombo) managed to co-exist but there's no evidence of such an arrangement.

However, in the FBN Mafia book released, there's alot of names that didn't make it onto the Valachi charts, many of them came from lower Brooklyn connected with some narcotics trafficking. There's nothing from a glance that links them as Colombos but in the 1950's there were alot of unknowns.

Yeah, the Colombos were always the NY family with the most concentration in one place. I think that's a big reason why their crew successions are the least linear. Speaking of the Profaci relatives, it's weird how the NJ crew was made up of guys with some of the deepest histories in the organization. There is a report from the early 80s that says Sal J. Profaci wants to become boss of the Colombo family to continue his family's legacy but no idea if there is any truth to that or what it's based on.

D'Arco gave some curious things to consider even though it's mostly 3rd hand info and he may not be remembering it correctly, but he says Salvatore Curiale went back to the time when there was just one Brooklyn family. I doubt there was ever just one family active in Brooklyn (except maybe if you count the very first incarnation of the US mob in the 1800's), but you have to wonder if a lot of Brooklyn was originally under one banner then later split off and became/joined other families. The fact that there was a significant non-Sicilian Italian presence in Brooklyn that later joined the two families with the most mysterious origins (Profaci and Masseria) is worth thinking about, too... could say something about the way Brookly developed.

For Profaci relations, Emanuele Cammarata may have been related somehow. The Cottones also. Nino Cottone was apparently a member in both the Profaci and Villabate families. Relatives of the Maglioccos are the Villabate Fontanas, and related through marriage are Simone Andolino, Giuseppe Tipa, and Sebastiano D'Agati.

[Angelo Santino]

One thing also, about the Colombos. Map out where everyone lives and operates (that we know of), in the 10's, 30's and 60's they all come from South Brooklyn and below. Very few of them were active in the city or Bronx. Not making a conspiracy theory out of it, but I wondered if that was how the D'Aquilas (Gambinos) and Mineo-DiBella-Profaci (Colombo) managed to co-exist but there's no evidence of such an arrangement.

However, in the FBN Mafia book released, there's alot of names that didn't make it onto the Valachi charts, many of them came from lower Brooklyn connected with some narcotics trafficking. There's nothing from a glance that links them as Colombos but in the 1950's there were alot of unknowns.

Yeah, the Colombos were always the NY family with the most concentration in one place. I think that's a big reason why their crew successions are the least linear. Speaking of the Profaci relatives, it's weird how the NJ crew was made up of guys with some of the deepest histories in the organization. There is a report from the early 80s that says Sal J. Profaci wants to become boss of the Colombo family to continue his family's legacy but no idea if there is any truth to that or what it's based on.

D'Arco gave some curious things to consider even though it's mostly 3rd hand info and he may not be remembering it correctly, but he says Salvatore Curiale went back to the time when there was just one Brooklyn family. I doubt there was ever just one family active in Brooklyn (except maybe if you count the very first incarnation of the US mob in the 1800's), but you have to wonder if a lot of Brooklyn was originally under one banner then later split off and became/joined other families. The fact that there was a significant non-Sicilian Italian presence in Brooklyn that later joined the two families with the most mysterious origins (Profaci and Masseria) is worth thinking about, too... could say something about the way Brookly developed.

For Profaci relations, Emanuele Cammarata may have been related somehow. The Cottones also. Nino Cottone was apparently a member in both the Profaci and Villabate families. Relatives of the Maglioccos are the Villabate Fontanas, and related through marriage are Simone Andolino, Giuseppe Tipa, and Sebastiano D'Agati.

He also said NJ was the first American Family... He also mentioned Navy Street which I find amazing. Speaks of the clout and recognition they had for a time for someone to remember hearing about to recollect it 80 years later. Navy Street was a cafe/gang with some of its top members being Camorra. Some like Nitti and Ricca grew up in the same vicinity and came from the same area of Italy many of the Navy Streeters did. Essentially, the top echelon of NS were Camorrists, but one could be Navy Street and just loosely affiliated. I see similarities to NS and the Outfit but it could be coincidental.

The first Family in Brooklyn, in full force, would have been the Gambinos in South Broolyn, Broolyn Heights and Red Hook, connected with the Lower East Side on James Street up to the 100 block of Elizabeth.... The second Family would have been the Bonannos, established after 1898 but before 1905 in Williamsburgh around Marcy and Wallabout, N5th and Roebling.

[B.]

One thing also, about the Colombos. Map out where everyone lives and operates (that we know of), in the 10's, 30's and 60's they all come from South Brooklyn and below. Very few of them were active in the city or Bronx. Not making a conspiracy theory out of it, but I wondered if that was how the D'Aquilas (Gambinos) and Mineo-DiBella-Profaci (Colombo) managed to co-exist but there's no evidence of such an arrangement.

However, in the FBN Mafia book released, there's alot of names that didn't make it onto the Valachi charts, many of them came from lower Brooklyn connected with some narcotics trafficking. There's nothing from a glance that links them as Colombos but in the 1950's there were alot of unknowns.

Yeah, the Colombos were always the NY family with the most concentration in one place. I think that's a big reason why their crew successions are the least linear. Speaking of the Profaci relatives, it's weird how the NJ crew was made up of guys with some of the deepest histories in the organization. There is a report from the early 80s that says Sal J. Profaci wants to become boss of the Colombo family to continue his family's legacy but no idea if there is any truth to that or what it's based on.

D'Arco gave some curious things to consider even though it's mostly 3rd hand info and he may not be remembering it correctly, but he says Salvatore Curiale went back to the time when there was just one Brooklyn family. I doubt there was ever just one family active in Brooklyn (except maybe if you count the very first incarnation of the US mob in the 1800's), but you have to wonder if a lot of Brooklyn was originally under one banner then later split off and became/joined other families. The fact that there was a significant non-Sicilian Italian presence in Brooklyn that later joined the two families with the most mysterious origins (Profaci and Masseria) is worth thinking about, too... could say something about the way Brookly developed.

For Profaci relations, Emanuele Cammarata may have been related somehow. The Cottones also. Nino Cottone was apparently a member in both the Profaci and Villabate families. Relatives of the Maglioccos are the Villabate Fontanas, and related through marriage are Simone Andolino, Giuseppe Tipa, and Sebastiano D'Agati.

He also said NJ was the first American Family... He also mentioned Navy Street which I find amazing. Speaks of the clout and recognition they had for a time for someone to remember hearing about to recollect it 80 years later. Navy Street was a cafe/gang with some of its top members being Camorra. Some like Nitti and Ricca grew up in the same vicinity and came from the same area of Italy many of the Navy Streeters did. Essentially, the top echelon of NS were Camorrists, but one could be Navy Street and just loosely affiliated. I see similarities to NS and the Outfit but it could be coincidental.

The first Family in Brooklyn, in full force, would have been the Gambinos in South Broolyn, Broolyn Heights and Red Hook, connected with the Lower East Side on James Street up to the 100 block of Elizabeth.... The second Family would have been the Bonannos, established after 1898 but before 1905 in Williamsburgh around Marcy and Wallabout, N5th and Roebling.

Yeah, if D'Arco was even in the ballpark with his comment, I figure it might have been a reference to most of Brooklyn being under the future Gambinos originally, which would make sense why there seemed to be some fluidity between the future Colombo and Gambino families in that area. With the heavily Italian parts of South Brooklyn (Bensonhurst, etc.) they have always been overwhelmingly dominated by the Colombos and Gambinos. There were probably more, but the only Bonannos I know of who lived or operated there were Cesare Bonventre, Joseph DeFilippi, and Frank Lupo (would be interesting if Lupo had some relation to Ignazio Lupo), as their Brooklyn presence was almost entirely up north in Williamsburg and along the Queens border.

D'Arco's comment was made offhandedly to indicate that the original Lucchese Brooklyn crew (which included Bensonhurst at that time as well as their base in Canarsie) was part of the same family as the other Brooklyn crews. Whether that's true or not, you still have to wonder why a crew with an Agrigento background based in Brooklyn would get hooked up with a family dominated by Corleone and Palermo-area members up in East Harlem and the Bronx. If they split off from another group, like the D'Aquila/Lupo family, that makes it even more mysterious.

Will be very curious to see what you do with the non-Sicilian research you're doing. I have never been as interested in the non-Sicilians except in Philly but the more I learn the more it seems there was more than meets the eye as far as how they were organized and how they originally got hooked into the Sicilian-run families.

[Angelo Santino]

There was a strong link between Palermo and the Agrigento coastal cities like Sciacca and Favara and surrounding areas. Whether those ties go back to Sicily or it was a new world alliance is not something I'm sure of. But the Agrigento network was in Lower Manhattan Elizabeth Street, E 39 on the East Side and I believe E 80th. This crew/network was firmly part of D'Aquila's Gambino group. Perhaps Sciacca and Palermo, being coastal cities, their members (wine trading and exports) were more similar than the Corleonesi who were interior Sicilians from in and around Corleone, most of them being into drywall, plasterers and horse feed farmers.

[B.]

I forget too how close Corleone is to Agrigento and that the Agrigento-dominated DeCavalcantes for example had ties to Corleone both in Ribera and apparently in the US through the Majuris (though I've never been able to identify any other Corleone descendents except for the Majuris). Might have nothing to do with how the Brooklyn crew got hooked up with the Luccheses, but could mean something.

[Angelo Santino]

To get a hold on it, it's best to understand the Mafia in Sicily (which you do). The rank and structure are the same. But they were localized groups that ran along important streets. In Palermo there was Passo Di Rigano, Resuttana, San Lorenzo etc all these individual groups situated right alongside each other. But it wasn't a gang thing, as members moved around they still kept their original affiliation. Meaning I could be a member of Falde and live in Acquasanta territory. Many of these group members were connected through intermarriage, associations with other groups across Sicily. They were localized factions of a much larger association, connected to Trapani, interior Palermo province and Agrigento and even abroad.

In NYC, it didn't work like that. There was never "The Harlem Family" or "The Williamsburgh Family." It seems based on regional affiliation that existed prior in Sicily and the groups that settled weren't arranged specifically but a result of chain migration. The Palermitan knew the Palermitan and etc and it congregated along those lines initially. And as these guys settled and carried on The Mafia they recruited first with Sicilian and eventually other Italians in the areas they operated in. So by the end of the 30's you had 5 groups with members and activities scattered across NY and NJ.

Now there's two Palermo expatriates: one is deeply connected to the Mafia in Falde, another one has no connections and is just a common criminal. The guy with Falde connections would be able to have letters sent confirming his connections and he would probably find himself easily accepted as a Gambino apprentice. The other Palermitan with no connections, would have to make his way into it differently. Let's say he lands on E 13 around the Gambinos, Bonannos and Genoveses and he starts working for someone in the Genoveses, he could potentially be made. Vito Cascio Ferro of Bisacquino, a man with long Interior Mafia ties was welcomed into the Genoveses almost immediately. DiLeonardo the grandfather of Micahel, also came from Bisacquino but went with D'Aquila... At the basics, it's who you know. And people from the same town are going to know each other unless someone moved to another city.

Does that make sense in how I explain it?

[B.]

For sure. The mystery to me is why these two families were so intertwined, with soldiers and probably even a boss (Mineo) jumping between them. They were the two families with core Palermitan membership so that is a strong reason but I just wish we knew why some guys ended up in one camp versus the other. The well-known members of both families weren't just criminal types who happened to come from Palermo like the second type you mentioned, but were dyed in the wool mafiosi who were either already members themselves or had close relatives who were, i.e. the first type.

What you mentioned about members in Sicily moving to other areas but staying with their original family makes me think of some other things. In the US, you tended to see members transfer only when they moved to an area that was dominated by one family. If a member moved to Pittsburgh before the 1930s, he would join that family. If he moved to Buffalo, he would join that family. However, if he moved to an open territory that had no single family dominating, he would simply represent his original family there. With that in mind, I have to go back to the paragraph above where I'm wondering why some members seemed to switch families within NYC, where families have always had members in different boroughs. Part of it could be politics we don't know about, or situations like Valachi, but I also think there might be more to it.

[Angelo Santino]

For sure. The mystery to me is why these two families were so intertwined, with soldiers and probably even a boss (Mineo) jumping between them. They were the two families with core Palermitan membership so that is a strong reason but I just wish we knew why some guys ended up in one camp versus the other. The well-known members of both families weren't just criminal types who happened to come from Palermo like the second type you mentioned, but were dyed in the wool mafiosi who were either already members themselves or had close relatives who were, i.e. the first type.

What you mentioned about members in Sicily moving to other areas but staying with their original family makes me think of some other things. In the US, you tended to see members transfer only when they moved to an area that was dominated by one family. If a member moved to Pittsburgh before the 1930s, he would join that family. If he moved to Buffalo, he would join that family. However, if he moved to an open territory that had no single family dominating, he would simply represent his original family there. With that in mind, I have to go back to the paragraph above where I'm wondering why some members seemed to switch families within NYC, where families have always had members in different boroughs. Part of it could be politics we don't know about, or situations like Valachi, but I also think there might be more to it.

Well remember, Sicily is a small island that could fit into most US states. So carrying an affiliation across state lines when you intended to settle permanently would be pointless that early on as the means of communication were still telegrams and letters. That's why outside of NY other families are homogeneous in their makeup. Think of the Sicilian Mafia like a Franchise such as McDonalds or Starbucks, that's how the Sicilians brought it. And outside of NY, it was simply one city or another with a single family.

As for the NY Gambino and Colombos, your guesses are as good as mine. But the takeaway is that most members live in areas with members of other families. There isn't a "territory" beyond the most basic. The Gambinos would never say Red Hook is their territory, but a Gambino member involved in some local business without competition could call it his area (in regards to that racket). To open a similar business is to cause him to lose profits and seen as an invasion of territory.

Quite generally, I think the split had to do with demographics. Mafia Families in Palermo average 30 to 45 members. In NY Palermo immigration was the main Sicilian demographic (and presumably more Palermitan Mafiosi which would have already been larger than the other two families). Between 1905 and 1910 immigration shot upward and perhaps the Gambinos were getting too large. It seemed that the split was agreed upon, it didn't seem bloody. One cannot just "start" a family, it's not that easy.

[jimmyb]

There was kind of an interesting gangland article written by scott burnstein last year that some of it was about sal profaci(joe profaci's son) and his connections to detroit through his sisters that each married a high ranking detroit guy, one married tony zirelli, and the other married one of the toccos-


viewtopic.php?f=29&t=192&hilit=Profaci

The Profaci sisters were upset with cousin Rosalie when Bonannos started publishing autobios. Ironically, Tony Z and his wife end up sanctioning their own autobio (the one Burnstein is working on now). Sal Profaci the son is still alive and does not like that Tony Z and wife collaborated with Scott.

Article on Connie Profaci FYI: http://nypost.com/2010/12/12/godmother-of-real-estate/