Chicago Outfit Soldier Sentenced

[Antiliar]

Thanks bud. Now I remember that Prignano and Glimco were the Italian names within the Alex family

Any thoughts on what crew Joey Glimco was with? Head of the taxi unions and allegedly killed Charles Gioe.

[Villain]

Thanks bud. Now I remember that Prignano and Glimco were the Italian names within the Alex family

Any thoughts on what crew Joey Glimco was with? Head of the taxi unions and allegedly killed Charles Gioe.

I believe that except for Ricca, Giancana and possibly Battaglia, Glimco didn't answer to anyone else. As you already pointed out, he was the head of local 777, but he also had his fingers in local 727, 1001, 703 and others. Guys like Comforte, Senese, Coli, Esposito, Smith and others were close with Glimco. During Accardo's reign as boss, it seems that Glimco was the top guy regarding all union matters, but when Giancana took over, sources say that Humphreys became the Outfits boss on everything union.

I don't want to say that Glimco fell under Humphreys, but by 1964 I think, Glimco was finished since he was ousted from his own union and every other which he was connected to. He was also the last member who saw Ricca alive at the hospital.

During the late 40s until the late 50s, Glimco possibly held a high position similar to a capo, but later things began changing

[Antiliar]

I have similar thoughts on Glimco, except I'm more agnostic about him. I know you have Dago Mangano as a capo, but two other guys who I'm not sure you mentioned were Nick De John and Vincent Benevento. Several sources name De John as a capo and connect him to be prior to Ross Prio, or perhaps pre-Battaglia. Apparently Butch Loverde was close to him, and Loverde was a Battaglia guy operating and paying tribute in the North Side. Fratianno claimed that a capo named John Franzone ordered Hunk Galiano to kill De John. Except that there was only a James Franzone and he was a capo in the San Francisco Family, while Galiano was a partner of Loverde in the North Side answerable to Battaglia. James Franzone was from Chicago and later returned there. Galiano was killed in 1966, allegedly by Jasper Campise.

[Villain]

I have similar thoughts on Glimco, except I'm more agnostic about him. I know you have Dago Mangano as a capo, but two other guys who I'm not sure you mentioned were Nick De John and Vincent Benevento. Several sources name De John as a capo and connect him to be prior to Ross Prio, or perhaps pre-Battaglia. Apparently Butch Loverde was close to him, and Loverde was a Battaglia guy operating and paying tribute in the North Side. Fratianno claimed that a capo named John Franzone ordered Hunk Galiano to kill De John. Except that there was only a James Franzone and he was a capo in the San Francisco Family, while Galiano was a partner of Loverde in the North Side answerable to Battaglia. James Franzone was from Chicago and later returned there. Galiano was killed in 1966, allegedly by Jasper Campise.

My opinion is that during one period Loverde's Rush St ops were overseen by Marshall Caifano, who in turn answered to Battaglia, and allegedly harassed Loverde, a situation which created some type of conflict between Caifano and Giancana, since the latter one was close friend of Loverde. I also think that Galiano answered to Prio and belonged to the Northsiders but I might be wrong...

Here are my thoughts on the North Side Mob regarding that same time period...

1932-1943

Boss/Major Capo - James DeGeorge

Capos and crew bosses

Thomas O'Neglia (Northwest and Rogers Park)(killed in 1943)

Tony Pinelli (Near West Side and Near North Side)

Possibly Ross Prio also received some high position by the end of this period but Im not sure

Members and associates: James Deangelo, Ross Prio, Onofrio Vitale, Sam and James Gervase, John Pisano, Dom and Mike Nuccio, Dom Brancato, Dom DiBella, Vincent Benevento, Nick DeJohn, Henry Finklestein, Joe and William Dote, Henry and Joe Vazzano, Amerigo Bertolini, Joe Muscarello, Sam Aiello, Sam Siano, John Ingraffia, James Marcello, Ernest Sansone, Paul Labriola, Martin Ochs, Leonard Calamia, Gus Giovenco, Thomas Rossi etc. and I also believe that James Mirro first started as associate of the North Side Mob together with Labriola and Ochs and later ended up as members of the Elmwood Park crew.

Circa 1944

Boss/Major Capo - James DeGeorge

Capos and crew bosses

James DeAngelo (Northwest Side and W Grand Av) (killed in 1944)

Anthony Pinelli (Near West Side and Near North Side)(the next year or in 1945 fled the city and went to Los Angeles)

Ross Prio (Rogers Park and Near North Side)


1945 - 1947

Boss/Major Capo - James DeGeorge (by 1947 or 48 stepped down as boss of the North Side)

Capos and crew bosses

Vincent Benevento (W Grand Av and Northwest Side) (Killed in 1946)

Nick DeJohn (Dallas Tex, and W. Grand Av)(killed in 1947) (during this period DeJohn was the Outfit's main overseer of their "invasion" in Dallas and after his murder, the whole operation allegedly failed)

Ross Prio (Rogers Park and Near North Side) (succeeded DeGeorge)

Members and associates: Paul Labriola, Martin Ochs, James Marcello, Dom DiBella, Dom and Mike Nuccio, Dom Brancato, Joe DiVarco, Ernest Sansone, Paul Jones, Leonard Calamia, Dom Galiano, James Mirro, Joe Vazzano, Marcus Lipsky, Eddie Sturch, James Allegretti, Tony Policheri aka Allegretti, William Goldstein, Gaetano Morgano, James Barsella, Nick and Pete Kokenes, John Miraglia, Frank Zizzo?, Sam Wright, Gus Giovenco, Sam Lisciandrello, Joe LaBarbera, Gerald Covelli, Fred Romano etc.

As I already stated, after the DeJohn murder, Labriola, Ochs, Mirro, Barsella and Miraglia possibly switched their alliance to the Elmwood Park crew, while Nick and Pete Kokenes switched to the South Side Mob under Guzik, Roti and Alex as their reps in Cicero. I also believe that after the conflict, Morgano (Near North Side under Pinelli) also transferred to the northwest Indiana area. Im not sure when Zizzo (Near West Side under Pinelli) also transferred there...

I dont have much info regarding Franzone and I highly doubt that he was long time Outfit capo, since maybe he was for some very short time period and later switched families at some point....For example Pinelli later switched to the LA fam...also both members from Chicago and San Francisco families were involved in the DeJohn hit. ...Franzone probably held more weight than Galiano and Calamia and also already knew each other, and so he had the jurisdiction to order the hit and after that he switched his alliance to another family...I'm just speculating here

[SolarSolano]

Great info on Glimco - from what I know that's who brought Dominic Senese into the Outfit (Senese was his enforcer in the fruit markets along Randolph Street and other rackets going back to the late 30s/early 40s.). Crackers Mendino was another Glimco crew member and an interesting/sadistic guy I've read about.

Villain and Antillar you guys always impress me with what you post - I know Frank Zizzo was Chicago Heights guy and I believe Pinelli (like LaPorte after him) may have essentially had a satellite crew in LA or was retired there and simply advising them. That's how I always read that - the Outfit had a crew in LA that was a little different from the LA family but could be off there.

[Villain]

Great info on Glimco - from what I know that's who brought Dominic Senese into the Outfit (Senese was his enforcer in the fruit markets along Randolph Street and other rackets going back to the late 30s/early 40s.). Crackers Mendino was another Glimco crew member and an interesting/sadistic guy I've read about.

Villain and Antillar you guys always impress me with what you post - I know Frank Zizzo was Chicago Heights guy and I believe Pinelli (like LaPorte after him) may have essentially had a satellite crew in LA or was retired there and simply advising them. That's how I always read that - the Outfit had a crew in LA that was a little different from the LA family but could be off there.

Thanks bud.

Yes, the Indiana crew was under the auspices of Chicago Heights Mob and in fact they had interests in both Gary and Hammond since the days of Prohibition.

Previously or by 1945, Pinelli was with the North Side faction until he fled Chicago and went to LA. Back in the days, a lot of old time North Side members also settled there. Besides being located on the west coast, Pinelli still received illegal income from few bookmaking ops which were again located on the North Side, according to records from 1947 until 1951 I think.

Pinelli was brought back in 1952 or 53 personally by Accardo, Giancana and Ferraro, as the new leader of the so-called Indiana crew, after the arrest of their previous overseer Jack Doyle.

Few of the most prominent crew members were Formosa, Morgano, Zizzo, Pinnelis nephews the Gruttadauro bros, the Schiralli bros, the Cardinale bros, Colianni, Dicks, Iatarolla family both father and son, Spino, Montagano, Izzi, Romeo, Fezekas and many more...

Besides being labeled as long time Indiana resident, Morgano also had many interests around the North Side so I believe that he and Pinelli knew each other from the old days. Most of these fellas owned or operated pizza restaurants or frozen pizza companies, which were fronts for gambling and narcotics operations

Zizzo used to operate around the Near North and Near West Side before joining the Indiana crew, so I only presume that he knew Pinelli at the time, or maybe he was close to the West Side admin such as Battaglia or some of the other fellas who operated or had interests in those same areas.

Colianni also had several business ventures with members from the North Side such as Allegretti and DiVarco, meaning he also probably had long standing relationship to that same faction. Thanks to Snakes, he came out with some info that back in the days Colianni was allegedly one of the members who pushed for Allegretti to also become a member of the Outfit.

The original long time resident in the Indiana area was Formosa who in turn was big in the prostitution racket on national level, and was close both with Giancana and LaPorte, and was also close associate of Sinatra. I think that Formosa was also one time manager of the infamous Cal-Neva lounge but I might be wrong. The Iatarolla family were also long time residents who owned one famous restaurant and were big in the car theft business.

So it seems that the Indiana crew was a mixture of some of Pinnelis old criminal associates from the North Side, followed by his criminal relatives and also long time residential gangsters who decided or were ordered to join the group.

Pinelli ruled from 1953 until 1959, followed by Morgano until his deportation in 1963, and so he was succeeded by Zizzo who in turn that same year was imprisoned on gambling charges. In addition, by the mid 60s I think, Pinelli switched his membership from the Outfit to the LA crime family.

Interesting thing to note is that after Zizzos imprisonment, Gruttadauro was the one who oversaw the Indiana crew until 1966 when Zizzo was paroled. Story goes that Formosa was next in line after Zizzo or maybe it was after Morgano I don't remember, but the problem was that he suffered a stroke and couldn't speak nor move.

[Villain]

Great info on Glimco - from what I know that's who brought Dominic Senese into the Outfit (Senese was his enforcer in the fruit markets along Randolph Street and other rackets going back to the late 30s/early 40s.). Crackers Mendino was another Glimco crew member and an interesting/sadistic guy I've read about.

Maybe I'm stepping over the red line here but I think that Glimco controlled or had some jurisdiction over some type of crew which included Jack Perno, Max Podolsky, Fred Smith, Victor Comforte, Frank Esposito, Dominic Senese, Eco Coli, and even possibly Frank Pantaleo who was a known Chicago businessman but was also labeled by the feds as Outfit associate and close friend of Glimco

[PolackTony]

I know this thread hasn't been active in a while, but in some of the earlier posts a few people posted comments regarding prison retribution by gangs for robbing stash houses. Bobby Pinocchio and Big Paulie were also C-Notes, and therefore are Folks. In the Illinois prison system, regardless of them being white they're Folks and thus they will be "plugged" (in addition to whatever protection or connections the Outfit may or many not still have on the inside). Further, IIRC they had associates from Latin Folks gangs affiliated with the C-Notes (Dragons, Spanish Cobras) working as intel and lookouts on these robberies. Thus it's not just that they were robbing gang stash houses, the guys working with this crew were also gang members. Some observers may underestimate Outfit connections to street gangs in Chicago. I believe that particularly since the 90s the Outfit may have used connections with street gangs to move drugs and likely to take care of heavy work as well. The C-Notes have always been intimately connected to the Outfit. I've heard before, but can't substantiate, that they were either founded by or initially sponsored by Joey Lombardo in the 50s. Either way, they operated under his watch as their HQ and main section was in Mitchell School Yard, across the street from Lumbo's building on Ohio. Fred Pascente talked also about him and Tony Spilotro hanging out at there, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were C-Notes at one point. The other main C-Note section in the Grand Ave Patch was at Huron and Campbell, where Lombardo's SAC was (and still is). The C-Notes were heavily involved in drugs as well as smerch and armed robberies since at least the 80s. I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure that Albie Vena and the Bravieri brothers were also all C-Notes, as well as that guy Zuñiga who was convicted along with Joey Bravieri in the 80s for murder during a drug robbery. This all goes to say that the sort of jobs that Pinocchio's crew was doing have a background to them, and that the Grand Ave Crew has a long and close connection to drugs and street gangs. As the C-Notes joined the Folks alliance, the mob attained a direct line of contact and influence with the leadership the Latin Folks organizations both in the streets and the prison system. FWIW I'm from the neighborhood and this was always what the word on the street was. And it's good to keep in mind the neighborhood context, as before they were Outfit guys dudes like Pinocchio and Vena etc were wild gangbangers in a super rough gang infested part of Chicago.

[Wiseguy]

I know this thread hasn't been active in a while, but in some of the earlier posts a few people posted comments regarding prison retribution by gangs for robbing stash houses. Bobby Pinocchio and Big Paulie were also C-Notes, and therefore are Folks. In the Illinois prison system, regardless of them being white they're Folks and thus they will be "plugged" (in addition to whatever protection or connections the Outfit may or many not still have on the inside). Further, IIRC they had associates from Latin Folks gangs affiliated with the C-Notes (Dragons, Spanish Cobras) working as intel and lookouts on these robberies. Thus it's not just that they were robbing gang stash houses, the guys working with this crew were also gang members. Some observers may underestimate Outfit connections to street gangs in Chicago. I believe that particularly since the 90s the Outfit may have used connections with street gangs to move drugs and likely to take care of heavy work as well. The C-Notes have always been intimately connected to the Outfit. I've heard before, but can't substantiate, that they were either founded by or initially sponsored by Joey Lombardo in the 50s. Either way, they operated under his watch as their HQ and main section was in Mitchell School Yard, across the street from Lumbo's building on Ohio. Fred Pascente talked also about him and Tony Spilotro hanging out at there, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were C-Notes at one point. The other main C-Note section in the Grand Ave Patch was at Huron and Campbell, where Lombardo's SAC was (and still is). The C-Notes were heavily involved in drugs as well as smerch and armed robberies since at least the 80s. I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure that Albie Vena and the Bravieri brothers were also all C-Notes, as well as that guy Zuñiga who was convicted along with Joey Bravieri in the 80s for murder during a drug robbery. This all goes to say that the sort of jobs that Pinocchio's crew was doing have a background to them, and that the Grand Ave Crew has a long and close connection to drugs and street gangs. As the C-Notes joined the Folks alliance, the mob attained a direct line of contact and influence with the leadership the Latin Folks organizations both in the streets and the prison system. FWIW I'm from the neighborhood and this was always what the word on the street was. And it's good to keep in mind the neighborhood context, as before they were Outfit guys dudes like Pinocchio and Vena etc were wild gangbangers in a super rough gang infested part of Chicago.

Using gang members for tips on where to rob stash houses is one thing. But a close connection to gangs and drugs is a stretch. You can literally count Outfit drug cases over the past 20 years on one hand. And they all involved associates.

As far as gangs go, before the Vena crew bust in 2014 (which had more to do with robberies than drug trafficking), you had to go back more than 15 years to find another example of gang invovement. At least that I'm aware of. That was when Ronnie Jarrett, Chris Marcotte, and Peter Frigo were said to be involved in a cocaine ring tied to the Satan Disciples street gang.

[Patrickgold]

Paulie Caparelli was a 12th street player and so was their Outlaw MC representative Mark Polchan, who just had one of his convictions thrown out and will get a new sentence this fall.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.su ... reme-court

[PolackTony]

Using gang members for tips on where to rob stash houses is one thing. But a close connection to gangs and drugs is a stretch. You can literally count Outfit drug cases over the past 20 years on one hand. And they all involved associates.

As far as gangs go, before the Vena crew bust in 2014 (which had more to do with robberies than drug trafficking), you had to go back more than 15 years to find another example of gang invovement. At least that I'm aware of. That was when Ronnie Jarrett, Chris Marcotte, and Peter Frigo were said to be involved in a cocaine ring tied to the Satan Disciples street gang.

Hey thanks for the reply. I think it is of course important to be careful, as inference can far outrun evidence, particularly when there is little of the latter to be had. Having said that, it's reasonable to assume that there is always more happening on the streets then what has been captured in criminal cases. Further, I don't look at belief in these types of claims as a binary either/or, but as lying on a continuum. As such, I think there's grounds to at least move the needle a bit here.

Leaving aside the examples of street gang involvement from Chinatown and Cicero for the moment, we can focus on Grand Ave. I don't think it's a stretch to conclude that they've had a long and intimate connection to street gangs, although much remains unclear as to the nature of these connections and their implications for mob rackets and operations over time. It seems pretty clear to me that the C-Notes, at least from the 1970s through the 1990s, served as a recruitment pool for Grand Ave. And once guys like Pannozzo, Big Paulie, Vena etc "graduated" to being Outfit guys, it's not like their rank and connections to the C-Notes just went away. That Grand Ave for decades has had such close connections to a gang of killers and drug dealers warrants closer attention I think. Rather than conceptualize this relationship as the Outfit vs. C-Notes as distinct entities with a clear demarcation in terms of criminal operations, I would posit that they've likely operated as two poles of a broader underworld based in the Grand Ave Patch. And with the role of the C-Notes within the wider Latin Folks organization, this would've given Grand Ave a direct inroad to the leadership of organizations such as the Spanish Cobras, who operated lucrative drug operations on the northwest side and (on the street at least) were long said to have mob ties. Word on the street is not high quality evidence, but for me at least it does provide a further basis to contextualize other evidence.

To respond to your point about Pannozzo et al as having "more to do with robberies than drug trafficking", I think it's reasonable to understand them as about both. Or more to the point, as conducting the first in service of the latter. Rather than pay a supplier, why not just rip off stash houses if you have the intel, muscle, and cogliones? I don't know offhand if we have any indication as to the quantities of drugs they took from these robberies, but I'm going to assume that they were substantial. They weren't, of course, pulling these jobs to acquire nose candy. They had to have been selling what they seized, and this required connections to criminal networks to distribute the product. And so not only do we have Cobras and Dragons working with Pannozzo on these robberies, these organizations have been very closely aligned with the C-Notes for decades prior to the period when these robberies were occurring. I don''t think it's unreasonable to entertain the likelihood that this type of cooperation didn't simply start with these stash house robberies.

In respect to the case with Jarrett et al and the SDs in Bridgeport, we can see that at least since the 90s other Outfit crews saw the opportunities of working with street gangs in drug distribution enterprises. I have no evidence that Chinatown had long standing and intimate ties with street gangs as Grand Ave did, and can't comment on their connections to the SDs beyond this case. The SDs have had a heavy presence in that area of the Southside for decades though, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were other links. Although I can't confirm its validity and I don't have the source at hand, I recall either hearing or reading somewhere that Chuckie English was involved in drug distribution with the LKs before he was clipped. So we can at least see a potential pattern here of Outfit ties over the years to street gangs that, while not conclusive, deserves to at least be further explored and taken seriously.

[PolackTony]

BTW, I haven't seen any mention of it on this forum or Gangsterbb, but I'm curious as to whether anyone here has read John Hagedorn's book "The In$ane Chicago Way". Hagedorn is a criminologist at the University of Illinois at Chicago with a long career researching Chicago street gangs, and has a network of informants from older ranking gang members. In this book, he argues that the Grand Ave crew actively supported the formation of a more sophisticated crime syndicate by the prison-based leadership of the Latin Folks in the 90s, to serve as associates and proxies of the mob. Hagedorn bases his argument on information that he received from not only gang members but also informants that he claims were Outfit guys from Grand Ave, appearing in the text under the pseudonyms "Sal Martino" and "the Don". Hagedorn's account further claims that this project fell apart over the 90s due to intensifying violence between the Insane faction of the Latin Folks under the Cobras (the faction to which the C-Notes belonged) and the Maniac faction under the Latin Disciples. His narrative of these gang wars in the 90s is spot on, as I can attest personally having lived through this period. And his claims about the Outfit at least broadly align with what was always said on the street about relationships between gangs and the Outfit.

https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/i ... d=20511448

[Wiseguy]

Using gang members for tips on where to rob stash houses is one thing. But a close connection to gangs and drugs is a stretch. You can literally count Outfit drug cases over the past 20 years on one hand. And they all involved associates.

As far as gangs go, before the Vena crew bust in 2014 (which had more to do with robberies than drug trafficking), you had to go back more than 15 years to find another example of gang invovement. At least that I'm aware of. That was when Ronnie Jarrett, Chris Marcotte, and Peter Frigo were said to be involved in a cocaine ring tied to the Satan Disciples street gang.

Hey thanks for the reply. I think it is of course important to be careful, as inference can far outrun evidence, particularly when there is little of the latter to be had. Having said that, it's reasonable to assume that there is always more happening on the streets then what has been captured in criminal cases. Further, I don't look at belief in these types of claims as a binary either/or, but as lying on a continuum. As such, I think there's grounds to at least move the needle a bit here.

Leaving aside the examples of street gang involvement from Chinatown and Cicero for the moment, we can focus on Grand Ave. I don't think it's a stretch to conclude that they've had a long and intimate connection to street gangs, although much remains unclear as to the nature of these connections and their implications for mob rackets and operations over time. It seems pretty clear to me that the C-Notes, at least from the 1970s through the 1990s, served as a recruitment pool for Grand Ave. And once guys like Pannozzo, Big Paulie, Vena etc "graduated" to being Outfit guys, it's not like their rank and connections to the C-Notes just went away. That Grand Ave for decades has had such close connections to a gang of killers and drug dealers warrants closer attention I think. Rather than conceptualize this relationship as the Outfit vs. C-Notes as distinct entities with a clear demarcation in terms of criminal operations, I would posit that they've likely operated as two poles of a broader underworld based in the Grand Ave Patch. And with the role of the C-Notes within the wider Latin Folks organization, this would've given Grand Ave a direct inroad to the leadership of organizations such as the Spanish Cobras, who operated lucrative drug operations on the northwest side and (on the street at least) were long said to have mob ties. Word on the street is not high quality evidence, but for me at least it does provide a further basis to contextualize other evidence.

To respond to your point about Pannozzo et al as having "more to do with robberies than drug trafficking", I think it's reasonable to understand them as about both. Or more to the point, as conducting the first in service of the latter. Rather than pay a supplier, why not just rip off stash houses if you have the intel, muscle, and cogliones? I don't know offhand if we have any indication as to the quantities of drugs they took from these robberies, but I'm going to assume that they were substantial. They weren't, of course, pulling these jobs to acquire nose candy. They had to have been selling what they seized, and this required connections to criminal networks to distribute the product. And so not only do we have Cobras and Dragons working with Pannozzo on these robberies, these organizations have been very closely aligned with the C-Notes for decades prior to the period when these robberies were occurring. I don''t think it's unreasonable to entertain the likelihood that this type of cooperation didn't simply start with these stash house robberies.

In respect to the case with Jarrett et al and the SDs in Bridgeport, we can see that at least since the 90s other Outfit crews saw the opportunities of working with street gangs in drug distribution enterprises. I have no evidence that Chinatown had long standing and intimate ties with street gangs as Grand Ave did, and can't comment on their connections to the SDs beyond this case. The SDs have had a heavy presence in that area of the Southside for decades though, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were other links. Although I can't confirm its validity and I don't have the source at hand, I recall either hearing or reading somewhere that Chuckie English was involved in drug distribution with the LKs before he was clipped. So we can at least see a potential pattern here of Outfit ties over the years to street gangs that, while not conclusive, deserves to at least be further explored and taken seriously.

I'd day 20+ years is a sufficient amount of time to get an idea of the general trends of things. And the involvement with gangs and drugs seems to be on a very limited, ad-hoc basis.

The Panozzo, Koroluk, etc case is a good example. You can see past cases in 2004 and 2012 where they were busted for high-end burglaries or home invasions. These guys are robbers, not so much drug dealers per se. The drug stash houses were simply a new target, where any cash present was likely the main target. Sure, they'll take the drugs too and sell them, but it's not like they're really trying to enter the drug business.

[PolackTony]

Great info on Glimco - from what I know that's who brought Dominic Senese into the Outfit (Senese was his enforcer in the fruit markets along Randolph Street and other rackets going back to the late 30s/early 40s.).

At the time of the botched hit on Dom Senese in '88, was he under a crew? Elmwood, Grand, Rush? Or was Senese direct to someone after the old Glimco crew disbanded?

[Pete]

Using gang members for tips on where to rob stash houses is one thing. But a close connection to gangs and drugs is a stretch. You can literally count Outfit drug cases over the past 20 years on one hand. And they all involved associates.

As far as gangs go, before the Vena crew bust in 2014 (which had more to do with robberies than drug trafficking), you had to go back more than 15 years to find another example of gang invovement. At least that I'm aware of. That was when Ronnie Jarrett, Chris Marcotte, and Peter Frigo were said to be involved in a cocaine ring tied to the Satan Disciples street gang.

Hey thanks for the reply. I think it is of course important to be careful, as inference can far outrun evidence, particularly when there is little of the latter to be had. Having said that, it's reasonable to assume that there is always more happening on the streets then what has been captured in criminal cases. Further, I don't look at belief in these types of claims as a binary either/or, but as lying on a continuum. As such, I think there's grounds to at least move the needle a bit here.

Leaving aside the examples of street gang involvement from Chinatown and Cicero for the moment, we can focus on Grand Ave. I don't think it's a stretch to conclude that they've had a long and intimate connection to street gangs, although much remains unclear as to the nature of these connections and their implications for mob rackets and operations over time. It seems pretty clear to me that the C-Notes, at least from the 1970s through the 1990s, served as a recruitment pool for Grand Ave. And once guys like Pannozzo, Big Paulie, Vena etc "graduated" to being Outfit guys, it's not like their rank and connections to the C-Notes just went away. That Grand Ave for decades has had such close connections to a gang of killers and drug dealers warrants closer attention I think. Rather than conceptualize this relationship as the Outfit vs. C-Notes as distinct entities with a clear demarcation in terms of criminal operations, I would posit that they've likely operated as two poles of a broader underworld based in the Grand Ave Patch. And with the role of the C-Notes within the wider Latin Folks organization, this would've given Grand Ave a direct inroad to the leadership of organizations such as the Spanish Cobras, who operated lucrative drug operations on the northwest side and (on the street at least) were long said to have mob ties. Word on the street is not high quality evidence, but for me at least it does provide a further basis to contextualize other evidence.

To respond to your point about Pannozzo et al as having "more to do with robberies than drug trafficking", I think it's reasonable to understand them as about both. Or more to the point, as conducting the first in service of the latter. Rather than pay a supplier, why not just rip off stash houses if you have the intel, muscle, and cogliones? I don't know offhand if we have any indication as to the quantities of drugs they took from these robberies, but I'm going to assume that they were substantial. They weren't, of course, pulling these jobs to acquire nose candy. They had to have been selling what they seized, and this required connections to criminal networks to distribute the product. And so not only do we have Cobras and Dragons working with Pannozzo on these robberies, these organizations have been very closely aligned with the C-Notes for decades prior to the period when these robberies were occurring. I don''t think it's unreasonable to entertain the likelihood that this type of cooperation didn't simply start with these stash house robberies.

In respect to the case with Jarrett et al and the SDs in Bridgeport, we can see that at least since the 90s other Outfit crews saw the opportunities of working with street gangs in drug distribution enterprises. I have no evidence that Chinatown had long standing and intimate ties with street gangs as Grand Ave did, and can't comment on their connections to the SDs beyond this case. The SDs have had a heavy presence in that area of the Southside for decades though, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were other links. Although I can't confirm its validity and I don't have the source at hand, I recall either hearing or reading somewhere that Chuckie English was involved in drug distribution with the LKs before he was clipped. So we can at least see a potential pattern here of Outfit ties over the years to street gangs that, while not conclusive, deserves to at least be further explored and taken seriously.

I'd day 20+ years is a sufficient amount of time to get an idea of the general trends of things. And the involvement with gangs and drugs seems to be on a very limited, ad-hoc basis.

The Panozzo, Koroluk, etc case is a good example. You can see past cases in 2004 and 2012 where they were busted for high-end burglaries or home invasions. These guys are robbers, not so much drug dealers per se. The drug stash houses were simply a new target, where any cash present was likely the main target. Sure, they'll take the drugs too and sell them, but it's not like they're really trying to enter the drug business.

Panozzo was certainly a dealer. After he was locked up he slipped up on the phone and the cops found a brick of cocaine in his house. He faces more charges because of that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.su ... ources-say