The Chicago Outfit (discussion)

[Pogo The Clown]

Also let me ask did the Outfit just recently start using the Consiglieri rank? I don't think they used it in the 80s and before. Thanks.


Pogo

[Snakes]

They have never really used it in the traditonal sense. Accardo was basically the consigliere from the early seventies until his death. Since then, there have been statements recognizing a few different individuals as consigliere although it seems to be more of a semi-retired, advisory type role compared to the East Coast families, whose consiglieres are generally still active on the street.

[Wiseguy]

I know you posted this in jest but some recent info has come out on the Outfits leadership. In 2007 they had it as follows.


Boss: John DiFronzo
UnderBoss: Joe Andriacchi

Crew Bosses:
Joe Andriacchi (North Side/Elmwood Park)
Frank Caruso (26th Street/Chinatown)
Al Tornabene (South Suburbs)
John Matassa (Cicero/Melrose Park)


And a few years ago some high level informants had it Mike Sarno and Salvatore Cataudella as the Outfits top 2 Bosses.


What is you view on this? Thanks.


Pogo

The crews seem off because they don't include Grand Avenue, which the feds recognized last year in the Pannozzo bust. I can't remember if they explicitly mentioned Vena as being head of that crew or not but they did recognize him as someone in a positon of authority.

It should be noted there was some discrepancy between two articles back in September 2007.

The first one below, which Pogo was referring to, was by Chuck Goudie:

Although the Chicago crime commission's new outfit family tree isn't due out until next year, the I-Team has learned that this is how it currently shapes up: Seventy-eight-year old No Nose John Difronzo is the boss; Difronzo's major domo is his brother Peter, whom mobwatchers say acts as an errand boy, delivering orders to outfit associates. The current underboss: Joseph "The Builder" Andriacchi, a convicted burglar. Andriacchi is said to control the daily operation of four criminal crews: his own Elmwood Park crew; the lucrative 26th Street/Chinatown crew assigned to Frank "Toots" Caruso who has deep political and labor union ties; south suburbs, overseen by outfit octogenarian al "The Pizza Man" Tornabene. finally, Cicero, managed by John "Pudge" Matassa.

The second one was by Jeff Cohen of the Chicago Tribune:

Law enforcement officials and the Chicago Crime Commission say the mob is now run in northern and southern sections, with street crews consolidated from six geographical areas to four: Elmwood Park, 26th Street, Cicero and Grand Avenue.


Both articles above cite Elmwood Park, Cicero, and 26th Street. The discrepancy is obviously with the first article citing the south suburbs while the second article cites Grand Ave. The second article also talks about the Outfit being run in "northern and southern sections." I tend to lean towards the second article because in the Family Secrets indictment it's labeled the "26th Street/South Side crew." In keeping with the Outfit's consolidation and streamlining of it's crews in the past, I would tend to agree that whatever is left of the mob's operations in the south suburbs likely fall under 26th Street crew now.

[Pete]

South suburbs hasn't been an active crew in over 20 years grand ave has been there the whole time and isn't going anywhere soon

[Pete]

Boss: Salvatore "Solly D" DeLaurentis/76
2. Underboss: Salvatore "Sally C" Cataudella/62
3. Consigliere: Marco "The Mover" D'Amico/79

Capos:
1. Frank "Tootsie" Caruso/69 - 26th Street
2. Rudolph "Rudy" Fratto/71 - Elmwood Park
3. James "Jimmy I" Inendino/72 - Cicero
4. Albert "Albie" Vena/66 - Grand Ave.

One difference, though, is the administrations and captains we see in Pogo's NY charts have been officially confirmed by the feds - including in indictments. The Outfit administration shown above, while mentioned in some articles and blogs, has not as far as I can remember.

As for the captains, Caruso has been verified to be captain of the South Side/26th Street crew. But again, as far as I can recall, the same can't be said about the others.

The info above may end up proving true, or some of it, or it may not.

Wise guy where do you think the blog info comes from come on think about it.... Oh yeah the Feds and the ccc give info to people like goudie and Scott and they pass it on stop wasting time with this garbage oh it's only speculated on blogs duh duh duh. You are better than this constant trolling

[Pogo The Clown]

Wise guy where do you think the blog info comes from come on think about it.... Oh yeah the Feds and the ccc give info to people like goudie and Scott and they pass it on stop wasting time with this garbage oh it's only speculated on blogs duh duh duh. You are better than this constant trolling

No it doesn't. I don't know about Goudie but what Scott says is often very different from what the Feds say.


Pogo

[Pete]

Wise guy where do you think the blog info comes from come on think about it.... Oh yeah the Feds and the ccc give info to people like goudie and Scott and they pass it on stop wasting time with this garbage oh it's only speculated on blogs duh duh duh. You are better than this constant trolling

No it doesn't. I don't know about Goudie but what Scott says is often very different from what the Feds say.


Pogo

Besides some exaggerations on family size what has he reported about Chicago that was different then the Feds or ccc was saying? Most of his information has been right in line ask him his sources they're almost all le sources

[Pogo The Clown]

What Scott says the Feds tell him is often very different from what the Feds actually say.


The Feds say Detroit has 29 or 30 made members. Scott says they have 55. The Feds say Chicago has 25-30 made members. Scott says they have up to 80. Anthony Parillo (from NE) is busted as an Associate. Scott says he was the Consiglieri at the time. We have also seen how he has greatly inflated the scope and activity level of places like Detroit, claiming they control what, 25% or 50% (whatever crazy number it was) of the drug trafficking or how his charts are so overly hierarchical that they defy believability.


Pogo

[Pete]

What Scott says the Feds tell him is often very different from what the Feds actually say.


The Feds say Detroit has 29 or 30 made members. Scott says they have 55. The Feds say Chicago has 25-30 made members. Scott says they have up to 80. Anthony Parillo (from NE) is busted as an Associate. Scott says he was the Consiglieri at the time. We have also seen how he has greatly inflated the scope and activity level of places like Detroit, claiming they control what, 25% or 50% (whatever crazy number it was) of the drug trafficking or how his charts are so overly hierarchical that they defy believability.


Pogo

Ok great so you confirmed what I just said he had exaggerated on size etc but generally has been in line on leadership in the outfit

[Wiseguy]

Pogo is right. What Scott reports often doesn't match up with the feds. Saying as much isn't trolling. It's sticking to the known facts and not being gullible like certain people who never learn. And I'll believe Scott's Outfit charts when they're verified by other sources or the feds themselves.

[Pete]

Pogo is right. What Scott reports often doesn't match up with the feds. Saying as much isn't trolling. It's sticking to the known facts and not being gullible like certain people who never learn. And I'll believe Scott's Outfit charts when they're verified by other sources or the feds themselves.

Agreed he's not perfect but besides exaggerating numbers and things of that nature what leadership has he not been in line with the Feds? See you can't just throw out these general statements if your questioning his information give an example I asked pogo and he confirmed what I said by discussing the numbers exaggerations so I'll ask you what else?

[Pete]

Also let me ask did the Outfit just recently start using the Consiglieri rank? I don't think they used it in the 80s and before. Thanks.


Pogo

Your trying to challenge people and make statements about information not being in line and you ask this question? Really? Dude I think your done on this topic if you don't know if Chicago has had a consigliere position are you also curious if Chicago ever had a lake?

[HairyKnuckles]

Also let me ask did the Outfit just recently start using the Consiglieri rank? I don't think they used it in the 80s and before. Thanks.


Pogo

Your trying to challenge people and make statements about information not being in line and you ask this question? Really? Dude I think your done on this topic if you don't know if Chicago has had a consigliere position are you also curious if Chicago ever had a lake?

I think what Pogo is asking is if the consigliere rank like the one the Families use in in NY for example, have been used by the Chicago Mafia in the past. In Chicago, the consigliere seems to have had an entiry different function at least back then.

[Angelo Santino]

Also let me ask did the Outfit just recently start using the Consiglieri rank? I don't think they used it in the 80s and before. Thanks.


Pogo

Your trying to challenge people and make statements about information not being in line and you ask this question? Really? Dude I think your done on this topic if you don't know if Chicago has had a consigliere position are you also curious if Chicago ever had a lake?

I think what Pogo is asking is if the consigliere rank like the one the Families use in in NY for example, have been used by the Chicago Mafia in the past. In Chicago, the consigliere seems to have had an entiry different function at least back then.

Consig differs from family to family and whoever occupies the position at any time. Sometimes it can be an "elder" position, other times (like in the Gen) the consig is - according to Cafaro - the powerhouse in settling disputes.

It's also been disputed as to what rank is higher- Underboss or Consig... There's no set answer. If the Underboss is a power figure and the consig is a flunkie, the under would be more prevalent and vice versa if it were switched.

As for Chicago, it seems Ricca, then Accardo and a few others functioned as the final say but without holding the boss position. Some have deemed them "Chicago Consigliere." But if the position exists, it's debatable that whoever assumes it is the Outfit's Top Boss.

Just my opinion, shoot me down.

[Pogo The Clown]

Pogo is right. What Scott reports often doesn't match up with the feds. Saying as much isn't trolling. It's sticking to the known facts and not being gullible like certain people who never learn. And I'll believe Scott's Outfit charts when they're verified by other sources or the feds themselves.

Why do I suspect that if Scott had gone to the other extreme and claimed that the Outfit had say only 10-15 made members and was down to 2 Crews that Pete would not be so quick to believe it? Why do I feel that he would be quick to invoke the Feds in that case?

Agreed he's not perfect but besides exaggerating numbers and things of that nature what leadership has he not been in line with the Feds? See you can't just throw out these general statements if your questioning his information give an example I asked pogo and he confirmed what I said by discussing the numbers exaggerations so I'll ask you what else?

We don't don't know if it is in line or not since the Feds haven't released anything on the administration. The only thing they have released in recent years is that Sarno and Cataudella were the top two guy's. Which goes back to Wiseguy's original point.


Pogo