I almost hate to say it....

[Wiseguy]

Thats the first I've heard of him being consigliere.It doesn't surprise me if he was never official boss, thats always a confusing mess. As is the consigliere position after Miranda. Did they give any dates?

Not that I saw. It seems pretty certain that he was never official boss and that he was underboss at one point. As for acting boss or consigliere, who knows?

[Frank]

Thats the first I've heard of him being consigliere.It doesn't surprise me if he was never official boss, thats always a confusing mess. As is the consigliere position after Miranda. Did they give any dates?

Not that I saw. It seems pretty certain that he was never official boss and that he was underboss at one point. As for acting boss or consigliere, who knows?

Isn't there enough clear evidence that Catena was acting boss and Eboli was acting underboss??

[Wiseguy]

Thats the first I've heard of him being consigliere.It doesn't surprise me if he was never official boss, thats always a confusing mess. As is the consigliere position after Miranda. Did they give any dates?

Not that I saw. It seems pretty certain that he was never official boss and that he was underboss at one point. As for acting boss or consigliere, who knows?

Isn't there enough clear evidence that Catena was acting boss and Eboli was acting underboss??

Suppose that depends on how you define "clear." It's possible. As I said in the beginning, I'm not convinced he was ever the boss. Though, admittedly, I take less of a stance on Catena than the Tieri issue.

[HairyKnuckles]

Even acting boss??

According to hearings in the late 1970s and early 1980s, he was identified as underboss, acting boss, and consigliere at different times. But seemingly never official boss.

Lots of errors in the reports presented during those hearings. Catena was fully retired after he stepped down as boss in or around 1973, He was never consigliere like some charts in the hearings show. John Ardito was consiglere til around 1978, then Gigante. Then Manna.

[Wiseguy]

Even acting boss??

According to hearings in the late 1970s and early 1980s, he was identified as underboss, acting boss, and consigliere at different times. But seemingly never official boss.

Lots of errors in the reports presented during those hearings. Catena was fully retired after he stepped down as boss in or around 1973, He was never consigliere like some charts in the hearings show. John Ardito was consiglere til around 1978, then Gigante. Then Manna.

I don't find there being errors hard to believe at all. Not unlike info in MF files.

[CabriniGreen]

Even acting boss??

According to hearings in the late 1970s and early 1980s, he was identified as underboss, acting boss, and consigliere at different times. But seemingly never official boss.

The papers had him as boss but said he was sick and getting on in age. That's when they dropped tieri's name as succeeding him. I forgot his first name but there was a kid named Moran who was a regular on the mob beat. Kinda like capeci. Didn't exagerrate or bullshit the public like vic riesel or nick pileggi who were the more well known cosa nostra tabloid spin doctors.

JIGGS

I believe you, I posted the Life magazine article from 69, and they had ALL these guys as potential boss candidates, including Lombardo, which surprised me initially, because I thought the guy was some big secret.

This info was out there, and pretty public actually....

[CabriniGreen]

That article is why I asked Hairy the question about Carillo, he was like Miranda's proxy I guess?

[JIGGS]

Even acting boss??

According to hearings in the late 1970s and early 1980s, he was identified as underboss, acting boss, and consigliere at different times. But seemingly never official boss.

The papers had him as boss but said he was sick and getting on in age. That's when they dropped tieri's name as succeeding him. I forgot his first name but there was a kid named Moran who was a regular on the mob beat. Kinda like capeci. Didn't exagerrate or bullshit the public like vic riesel or nick pileggi who were the more well known cosa nostra tabloid spin doctors.

JIGGS

I believe you, I posted the Life magazine article from 69, and they had ALL these guys as potential boss candidates, including Lombardo, which surprised me initially, because I thought the guy was some big secret.

This info was out there, and pretty public actually....

X-Zac!

But then 25 yrs later the pileggis, nicky gages and the uppity ups had it as if mr. Cafaro had exposed himself some brand spanking new intel.

I wonder if the feds will ever publish some kind a definitative cronology on the west side? Or cosa nostra during the 20th century? If any body can put a lot of the shit we beat over to rest its them! I mean how long can them files impact any future cases or living snitches?

JIGGS

[JIGGS]

Thats the first I've heard of him being consigliere.It doesn't surprise me if he was never official boss, thats always a confusing mess. As is the consigliere position after Miranda. Did they give any dates?

Not that I saw. It seems pretty certain that he was never official boss and that he was underboss at one point. As for acting boss or consigliere, who knows?

Out a curiosity what are you going by mainly? The feds say he was the boss. Catena. Not acting but the boss in everything. They named the family after him. Thats where the press got it from.

Is it the more recent research that sweeps it under the rug?

JIGGS

[Wiseguy]

Thats the first I've heard of him being consigliere.It doesn't surprise me if he was never official boss, thats always a confusing mess. As is the consigliere position after Miranda. Did they give any dates?

Not that I saw. It seems pretty certain that he was never official boss and that he was underboss at one point. As for acting boss or consigliere, who knows?

Out a curiosity what are you going by mainly? The feds say he was the boss. Catena. Not acting but the boss in everything. They named the family after him. Thats where the press got it from.

Is it the more recent research that sweeps it under the rug?

JIGGS

Not that I'm aware of. You're right, some fed sources identified Catena as the boss. However, it seems Catena was identified as a lot of things. I'm not sure there's anything definitive like an indictment.

[JIGGS]

Thats the first I've heard of him being consigliere.It doesn't surprise me if he was never official boss, thats always a confusing mess. As is the consigliere position after Miranda. Did they give any dates?

Not that I saw. It seems pretty certain that he was never official boss and that he was underboss at one point. As for acting boss or consigliere, who knows?

Out a curiosity what are you going by mainly? The feds say he was the boss. Catena. Not acting but the boss in everything. They named the family after him. Thats where the press got it from.

Is it the more recent research that sweeps it under the rug?

JIGGS

Not that I'm aware of. You're right, some fed sources identified Catena as the boss. However, it seems Catena was identified as a lot of things. I'm not sure there's anything definitive like an indictment.

As you know no boss had ever been charged with being the boss until funzi tieri got charged and convicted.

MAYBE when Genovese croaks, benny squint pulls the same strategy that goes down in 1980? Making it seem like Jerry Catena (who I think was already in the can) was the official boss but in name only while he, Miranda and Tommy Eboli ran the family?

Could be what they are doing now. Somebody younger like Vince Esposito could be groomed and already holding power but far as anyone knows its Barney. Who has'nt made a move since he got out.

What was the last murder tied to the west side? Was it quiet doms kid?

JIGGS

[Wiseguy]

As you know no boss had ever been charged with being the boss until funzi tieri got charged and convicted.

MAYBE when Genovese croaks, benny squint pulls the same strategy that goes down in 1980? Making it seem like Jerry Catena (who I think was already in the can) was the official boss but in name only while he, Miranda and Tommy Eboli ran the family?

Could be what they are doing now. Somebody younger like Vince Esposito could be groomed and already holding power but far as anyone knows its Barney. Who has'nt made a move since he got out.

What was the last murder tied to the west side? Was it quiet doms kid?

JIGGS

Barney doesn't strike me as a guy who's just a figurehead. And the intel is more solid nowadays.

Cirillo's kid was in 2004. There's been several hits connected to the Genovese since then - Ricci, Izzi, Antonelli, etc.

[JIGGS]

As you know no boss had ever been charged with being the boss until funzi tieri got charged and convicted.

MAYBE when Genovese croaks, benny squint pulls the same strategy that goes down in 1980? Making it seem like Jerry Catena (who I think was already in the can) was the official boss but in name only while he, Miranda and Tommy Eboli ran the family?

Could be what they are doing now. Somebody younger like Vince Esposito could be groomed and already holding power but far as anyone knows its Barney. Who has'nt made a move since he got out.

What was the last murder tied to the west side? Was it quiet doms kid?

JIGGS

Barney doesn't strike me as a guy who's just a figurehead. And the intel is more solid nowadays.

Cirillo's kid was in 2004. There's been several hits connected to the Genovese since then - Ricci, Izzi, Antonelli, etc.

Shit thats right. Cueball. Antonelli was the jeweler thing right? Or no? I did not realize how long ago that episode was with quiet doms kid. But its when vinny gorgeous was out and about. 15 years. Time flies.

JIGGS

[CabriniGreen]

If anyone was interested... Title Page.....

20190930_233114.jpg

[CabriniGreen]

If you want the rest, I'll post it, if not, I can lb leave it alone.....