Pogo The Clown wrote:Exactly Christie. If you are gonig to state something as a fact that goes against the established facts then expect to be challenged on it.
Just as if I were to say (for example) Willy Wiseguy is the new Boss of the Gambinos or Vincent Gigante was never a made member or Philly has 200 made members then I would expect for people to say, "hey wait a minute, how do you know this? That is not what the official info says, etc."
Pogo
You are going waaaay over board. Which means you need to find a hobby or get out the house more. No one is making those claims or even close. You are just making shit up now so you don't look like such a tight ass here. We have all read the same Ganglands and Indictments you have. You are not teaching anyone anything new here. Let people have their discussions and their fun here. That's all I am going to say on this.
One of the big differences between garbage speculation and quality speculation is the use of facts to speculate. Some of our best members here do a whole lot of speculating, but they might frame it as, "Maybe Z is true, because X and Y seem to suggest that."
I think we're all open to the theory of Crea being official boss, but if someone is trying to frame it as "Crea is boss, and that's a fact" with nothing else to go on except a hunch or some rumor the rest of us aren't privy to, they might as well be Frank C. If someone can say "Crea is the boss for these reasons", that's a different story and at least allows some discussion and constructive arguments.
B. wrote:One of the big differences between garbage speculation and quality speculation is the use of facts to speculate. Some of our best members here do a whole lot of speculating, but they might frame it as, "Maybe Z is true, because X and Y seem to suggest that."
I think we're all open to the theory of Crea being official boss, but if someone is trying to frame it as "Crea is boss, and that's a fact" with nothing else to go on except a hunch or some rumor the rest of us aren't privy to, they might as well be Frank C. If someone can say "Crea is the boss for these reasons", that's a different story and at least allows some discussion and constructive arguments.
No one has ever Stated it as a fact that Crea is defacto boss(except Capeci lol) What they are stating is their opinion and disagreeing with the new Capeci article. But pogo has to jump in with cut and paste shit we already know BUT don't agree with to try and kill the discussion like we are doing some great disjustice to Vic Amuso lol. Its pretty common knowledge that all stated facts are stated as such or with backed up documentation from news articles or court docs. Anything else is just opinion on an open forum.
As for Frank C or anyone else of says they have some insider info....well its not fact unless they prove it with documentation OR you believe it etc.
The guy was clearly stating his opinion on the Amuso article and how he believes Amuso is not calling the shots boss in name only. Its his opinion. He can have it.
Most Basic rule here to follow so you don't get caught up in allot of Bullshit. Its not FACT unless someone says so or backs it up with info. Everything is opinion and up for discussion
Rocco wrote:Now I am playing fantasy football because I like a discussion on the unknowns of current positions within the Luchese family...? Really? LOL
"Exactly Christie. If you are gonig to state something as a fact that goes against the established facts then expect to be challenged on it."
Rocco, friend of mine, when Capeci published that Crea was boss, you stated it as being "common knowledge for years that Amuso had no pull." Then a few years later Capeci recanted that Crea wasn't the boss, and your response was that it was "common knowledge and no surprise that Amuso was still in charge." You can't have it both ways. It's either "common knowledge" or fantasy. And here's the thing, I still don't fully believe Merlino is boss of Philly, that's my fantasy football against what's come out in transcripts and what the LEO acknowledges. I wasn't trying to hit a nerve with you.
Rocco wrote:Now I am playing fantasy football because I like a discussion on the unknowns of current positions within the Luchese family...? Really? LOL
"Exactly Christie. If you are gonig to state something as a fact that goes against the established facts then expect to be challenged on it."
Rocco, friend of mine, when Capeci published that Crea was boss, you stated it as being "common knowledge for years that Amuso had no pull." Then a few years later Capeci recanted that Crea wasn't the boss, and your response was that it was "common knowledge and no surprise that Amuso was still in charge." You can't have it both ways. It's either "common knowledge" or fantasy. And here's the thing, I still don't fully believe Merlino is boss of Philly, that's my fantasy football against what's come out in transcripts and what the LEO acknowledges. I wasn't trying to hit a nerve with you.
I never stated it as fact...as my "opinion" I said Crea was most likely Boss to the family on the street because he was from the Bronx and that's where the power came from. That topped with the fact that the entire Brooklyn faction was locked up. Based on that it was my opinion that Crea was running things and Amuso probably didn't have much pull. Also I never said "common knowledge and no surprise that Amuso was still in charge."?? Infact I stated I didn't believe it and still think Crea was running the show. That's how all this shit started on this thread.? Stop putting things in peoples mouths and saying everything someone says in a discussion is fact. If we knew all the facts there wouldn't be a discussion.
You problem Atardi is that you take everything as fact like we are FBI agents posting info. You are jumping in at the end of thread and you have no idea what it is even about? You are just stirring the pot which is what you like to do. If you cant PM people and sucker them into the Graveyard you jump in and start shit at the end of the thread. Kinda like your olde buddy Tag. You two were two peas in pod.
Last edited by Rocco on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Chris Christie wrote:And here's the thing, I still don't fully believe Merlino is boss of Philly, that's my fantasy football against what's come out in transcripts and what the LEO acknowledges. I wasn't trying to hit a nerve with you.
That's a good example, actually. Just about everyone, from forum members to LE, believed that Ligambi had taken over as official boss and that most of the family had moved on from Merlino except for a few hanger-ons. There was only one person on the RD that I can remember (AtlanticCity) who said that Merlino was the boss and that he and Ligambi's "factions" were one and the same. Then it comes out in recorded transcripts from members that Ligambi is the underboss and has been acting boss for over a decade. Ligambi had veto power no doubt, but it's clear that as of 2011, Merlino was the official boss and still held influence over the group. And that's just a small family like Philly, where people are more connected and gossip spreads like wildfire.
In NYC, we're talking about a nephew of a friend of an associate who knows an associate that knows a made guy, who reports to a captain that reports to a street boss who might also be the underboss and may or may not recognize XYZ as "official boss". There are made members who may not even know the real hierarchy, let alone some of the people who hang around the forums.
Chris Christie wrote:And here's the thing, I still don't fully believe Merlino is boss of Philly, that's my fantasy football against what's come out in transcripts and what the LEO acknowledges. I wasn't trying to hit a nerve with you.
That's a good example, actually. Just about everyone, from forum members to LE, believed that Ligambi had taken over as official boss and that most of the family had moved on from Merlino except for a few hanger-ons. There was only one person on the RD that I can remember (AtlanticCity) who said that Merlino was the boss and that he and Ligambi's "factions" were one and the same. Then it comes out in recorded transcripts from members that Ligambi is the underboss and has been acting boss for over a decade. Ligambi had veto power no doubt, but it's clear that as of 2011, Merlino was the official boss and still held influence over the group. And that's just a small family like Philly, where people are more connected and gossip spreads like wildfire.
In NYC, we're talking about a nephew of a friend of an associate who knows an associate that knows a made guy, who reports to a captain that reports to a street boss who might also be the underboss and may or may not recognize XYZ as "official boss". There are made members who may not even know the real hierarchy, let alone some of the people who hang around the forums.
I have it on good authority that Merlino was "feeling" out a possible book deal or movie deal in the first year of his release. I heard this from two different sources who have no contact with each other. That's what makes me have reservations, but that's not enough to formulate a decent enough counter-argument.
Chris Christie wrote:And here's the thing, I still don't fully believe Merlino is boss of Philly, that's my fantasy football against what's come out in transcripts and what the LEO acknowledges. I wasn't trying to hit a nerve with you.
That's a good example, actually. Just about everyone, from forum members to LE, believed that Ligambi had taken over as official boss and that most of the family had moved on from Merlino except for a few hanger-ons. There was only one person on the RD that I can remember (AtlanticCity) who said that Merlino was the boss and that he and Ligambi's "factions" were one and the same. Then it comes out in recorded transcripts from members that Ligambi is the underboss and has been acting boss for over a decade. Ligambi had veto power no doubt, but it's clear that as of 2011, Merlino was the official boss and still held influence over the group. And that's just a small family like Philly, where people are more connected and gossip spreads like wildfire.
In NYC, we're talking about a nephew of a friend of an associate who knows an associate that knows a made guy, who reports to a captain that reports to a street boss who might also be the underboss and may or may not recognize XYZ as "official boss". There are made members who may not even know the real hierarchy, let alone some of the people who hang around the forums.
There is nothing wrong with that. Clearly no one knew Merlino was still the Boss. They were voicing there opinion on it. Who really cares if it comes out later they are wrong? They don't give out trophies here? lol If you believe half the people who say they know someone of have some inside info you are fool. Half the posters on here are kids for christs sake.
B. wrote:
Chris Christie wrote:And here's the thing, I still don't fully believe Merlino is boss of Philly, that's my fantasy football against what's come out in transcripts and what the LEO acknowledges. I wasn't trying to hit a nerve with you.
There is nothing wrong with disputing your opinion about who is Boss of Philly regardless of what the transcripts say. Unless you are afraid of some jackass with too much time on their hands holding it against you later when it comes out you were wrong? Is that what keeps you up at night?
I still don't believe Amuso holds as much sway as Crea does just because crea went to Amuso's wife's funeral as sign of respect doesn't change my mine.. That's my opinion get over it.
Last edited by Rocco on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is going nowhere. My "fantasy football" reference wasn't meant to be insulting but I guess I should have chosen my words differently. Salut Rocco.
Chris Christie wrote:And here's the thing, I still don't fully believe Merlino is boss of Philly, that's my fantasy football against what's come out in transcripts and what the LEO acknowledges. I wasn't trying to hit a nerve with you.
That's a good example, actually. Just about everyone, from forum members to LE, believed that Ligambi had taken over as official boss and that most of the family had moved on from Merlino except for a few hanger-ons. There was only one person on the RD that I can remember (AtlanticCity) who said that Merlino was the boss and that he and Ligambi's "factions" were one and the same. Then it comes out in recorded transcripts from members that Ligambi is the underboss and has been acting boss for over a decade. Ligambi had veto power no doubt, but it's clear that as of 2011, Merlino was the official boss and still held influence over the group. And that's just a small family like Philly, where people are more connected and gossip spreads like wildfire.
In NYC, we're talking about a nephew of a friend of an associate who knows an associate that knows a made guy, who reports to a captain that reports to a street boss who might also be the underboss and may or may not recognize XYZ as "official boss". There are made members who may not even know the real hierarchy, let alone some of the people who hang around the forums.
I have it on good authority that Merlino was "feeling" out a possible book deal or movie deal in the first year of his release. I heard this from two different sources who have no contact with each other. That's what makes me have reservations, but that's not enough to formulate a decent enough counter-argument.
In your mind maybe. But to be honest that would have been a good thread for people discuss their opinions on it for sure. I suspect what really made you not do it is the fear of being wrong later and that being held against you forever on here by the archiving Cut and Pasters so to speak. If you didn't state it as a fact and started a thread on that it probably would have made at least 10pgs. WTF atardi ?
Chris Christie wrote:And here's the thing, I still don't fully believe Merlino is boss of Philly, that's my fantasy football against what's come out in transcripts and what the LEO acknowledges. I wasn't trying to hit a nerve with you.
That's a good example, actually. Just about everyone, from forum members to LE, believed that Ligambi had taken over as official boss and that most of the family had moved on from Merlino except for a few hanger-ons. There was only one person on the RD that I can remember (AtlanticCity) who said that Merlino was the boss and that he and Ligambi's "factions" were one and the same. Then it comes out in recorded transcripts from members that Ligambi is the underboss and has been acting boss for over a decade. Ligambi had veto power no doubt, but it's clear that as of 2011, Merlino was the official boss and still held influence over the group. And that's just a small family like Philly, where people are more connected and gossip spreads like wildfire.
In NYC, we're talking about a nephew of a friend of an associate who knows an associate that knows a made guy, who reports to a captain that reports to a street boss who might also be the underboss and may or may not recognize XYZ as "official boss". There are made members who may not even know the real hierarchy, let alone some of the people who hang around the forums.
I have it on good authority that Merlino was "feeling" out a possible book deal or movie deal in the first year of his release. I heard this from two different sources who have no contact with each other. That's what makes me have reservations, but that's not enough to formulate a decent enough counter-argument.
Yeah, that was mentioned in the media, too. Seems possible to me... Merlino is one of the most famous mobsters of the last 25 years and might want to cash in on that. He also could have stepped down for all we know in the last three or four years, but from what I know about Merlino over the years, it wouldn't be THAT crazy for him to be the boss and still write some self-serving, half-fictional book. We'd get to read about "Robin Hood" Merlino handing out toys for X-Mas and saving the neighborhood from "Mustache Pete of Nottingham" Stanfa.
Chris Christie wrote:This is going nowhere. My "fantasy football" reference wasn't meant to be insulting but I guess I should have chosen my words differently. Salut Rocco.
I get you But I don't understand why you are so afraid of discussing something like Merlino not being boss as an opinion(fantasy football) and not fact? Especially when no one knew his status(before the skins tapes) Its a good topic for shits and giggles atardi. The unknowns make good discussions. And if its an unknown like the Street Boss of the Lucheses... no opinion stated on the subject should be taken as fact...It's nice to hear how people come up with their theories on the unknowns without someone chimming in that we are stating it as fact in attempt to kill the discussion or police it someway by cutting and pasting an article we already read and don't agree with.
Chris Christie wrote:And here's the thing, I still don't fully believe Merlino is boss of Philly, that's my fantasy football against what's come out in transcripts and what the LEO acknowledges. I wasn't trying to hit a nerve with you.
That's a good example, actually. Just about everyone, from forum members to LE, believed that Ligambi had taken over as official boss and that most of the family had moved on from Merlino except for a few hanger-ons. There was only one person on the RD that I can remember (AtlanticCity) who said that Merlino was the boss and that he and Ligambi's "factions" were one and the same. Then it comes out in recorded transcripts from members that Ligambi is the underboss and has been acting boss for over a decade. Ligambi had veto power no doubt, but it's clear that as of 2011, Merlino was the official boss and still held influence over the group. And that's just a small family like Philly, where people are more connected and gossip spreads like wildfire.
In NYC, we're talking about a nephew of a friend of an associate who knows an associate that knows a made guy, who reports to a captain that reports to a street boss who might also be the underboss and may or may not recognize XYZ as "official boss". There are made members who may not even know the real hierarchy, let alone some of the people who hang around the forums.
I have it on good authority that Merlino was "feeling" out a possible book deal or movie deal in the first year of his release. I heard this from two different sources who have no contact with each other. That's what makes me have reservations, but that's not enough to formulate a decent enough counter-argument.
Yeah, that was mentioned in the media, too. Seems possible to me... Merlino is one of the most famous mobsters of the last 25 years and might want to cash in on that. He also could have stepped down for all we know in the last three or four years, but from what I know about Merlino over the years, it wouldn't be THAT crazy for him to be the boss and still write some self-serving, half-fictional book. We'd get to read about "Robin Hood" Merlino handing out toys for X-Mas and saving the neighborhood from "Mustache Pete of Nottingham" Stanfa.
According to Anastasia by way of Burnstein, Joey was sending out serious feelers. On the west coast, he had some phone discussion with Porno Rob and I also heard he was in touch with Danny Provenzano. Nothing ever came of it. Ralph Natale wanted to make a movie and reportedly wanted Sean Connery to play him.
123JoeSchmo wrote:WG all due respect, you could just stop acting so damn arrogant about this, state your case and leave it
If you had been around back on the RD forum and seen how many times I had to deal with BS posters who thought they knew the real scoop, questioning and disagreeing with the Feds, OC experts like Capeci, etc, only to be proven wrong time and time again, all the while never admitting they had been wrong but continued to make the same arguments (including on this board now) - arrogance in its purest form - you would understand my frustrations and lack of patience.
I apologize if I sounded like a jerkoff WG. I know the time and effort you put into paying attention to these indictments and Capeci is a pretty good source as well. I've only been on these sites for three years so I know I haven't dealt with your kind of frustration. But who knows, you very well could be right. Just know you'll never change people's minds once they're made up. Haha you should know being Mormon
*ding dong "Hello, my name is Elder Price-" *SLAM!
Rocco wrote:If you believe half the people who say they know someone of have some inside info you are fool.
So I guess anyone who believes anything you say is a fool.
rocco wrote:
I don't go by what I read in the papers. I was born and raised around the mob my whole life.
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
