Gangland:5/28/15

[Pete]

4 FBI agents (who have access to several Lucchese informants and 60 years of in house intelligence on the Luccheses tht we don't have) and a Lucchese Associate Vs. Speculation on a mob forum. This is bascially what it all comes down to and what one thinks carries more weight.


You also keep mentioning that Capeci was wrong in the past but how many times have you been wrong? If I recall you were wrong on John Riggi still being the Boss and as well as Peter Gotti being the Boss and Jack D'Amico being Acting Boss over Nick Corozzo.


Pogo

When are you saying corozzo was acting boss? That very short period in the late 90's before going to jail?

On the topic of capeci no one is perfect but if he is not an expert on the ny mob I don't know who is he def knows more than many others who claim to be in the know.

Pete that was directed at me. Years back I said I didn't believe that Pete Gotti was really boss or wasn't really running the show..just in name only because he was such a fuckin bozo that Nicky Corozzo must be really running the show. Then an indictment or some news article came out a short time later were an FBI agent or Capeci said Pete Gotti is the boss or some shit. lol Pogo and Wiseguy cant grasp the threads were guys add there opinions on the current "unknowns" of the mob. This thread was who you think is really running the lucheses on the street. I said it must be Crea. Pogo and Wiseguy do no stray from gangland or old indictments. They do no enjoy a those conversations. So to them...Amuso is defacto boss calling all the shots(even though he is in prison for the last 20plus yrs) and Maddona is his underboss. Which means they think Crea is just a Capo now and not part of the administration. My opinion is that Amuso holds the title Official boss and Crea is the street boss really running the family on the street. Maddona gets shipped off for the 3yrs shortly and has two additional trials/indictments on top of that. So he is pretty much out of the picture shortly.

Wait I thought it was common knowledge while amuso is boss crea is acting boss and the number 1 guy on the street? I didnt realize that was the argument here.

In regards to Pete gotti and corozzo I don't think what you said there was necessarily wrong either while Pete was official boss his own brothers thought he was a moron I doubt he told Nicky what to do but who knows

According to Pogo and Wiseguy that is not the case because Capeci's article and Scarfo Jrs indicments says Amuso calls all the shots and runs family not Crea. They only mentioned Maddona as underboss. So unless Crea was mentioned as Acting Boss in that article or Scarfo indictment..then we cant talk about what our personal opinion of Crea position might be. lol To pogo and wiseguy since Crea wasn't mention then he is either a capo or soldier but we cant say that either because that wasn't in the article either.. So might as well assume Crea just doesn't exist and he got a job at shoprite and left LCN.. lol

As for what you said about Peter the dunce Gotti and Corrozo....if it wasn't written in gangland or an indictment that Pete Gotti was a dunce that nobody respected him and corrozzo didn't take orders from him then Pogo and Wiseguy will not tolerate that talk either.lol ...Unless we can get someone to feed that info to Capeci and he writes in next weeks gangland then we can talk about of course Capeci might retract that a few months later....

Ok got it

[Pogo The Clown]

Nice job spinning and rewritting history there Rocco.


You and others were saying Nick Corozzo was the Boss and not Peter Gotti. That was disproven when the Depalma wiretapes later came out. Later you and others were saying again that Corozzo was the Boss and not D'Amico. Again that was disproven when informants and the Vallaro wiretapes came out. And more recently you and others were saying John Riggi was not the Boss. Once again that was disproven when wiretaps came out. So you are 0-3 on these.


In all these cases you and others used the same tired arguements. X has been in prison for x years, x has no loyalist, x is not respected, etc as if you are in a position to actually know any of that. Again it goes back to what makes sense to you than to the actual reality. It doesn't make sense to you that a guy in prison for 20 years can still be the Boss so that means he must not be.


And no one has argued that Amuso doesn't have an Acting Boss running the day to day for him. He obviosuly does as did Gotti, Persico, Gigante and Riggi when they were in prison. That doesn't mean they are no longer the Boss. That was never part of this discussion so I don't know why you keep arguing it.


Pogo

[Rocco]

Pogo you completely ignored everything ... I knew you would because it involves personal opinion from you. What is your " opinion " on who is running the show out there for lucheses? That is the actual discussion here. We all know there are official bosses in prison for life and actual bosses on the street running the show. Who is doing that for the lucheses? In your opinion who is boss on the street calling the shots everyday?

[Pogo The Clown]

But that wasn't the actual discussion here. No one was arguing that someone other than Amuso is running the day to day on the street.


Now who do I think is Acting Boss? I would say either Madonna or Crea. Madonna had previously been IDed as Amuso's Street Boss and now the UnderBoss. That could mean that he has stepped down as Street Boss to UnderBoss or that he is serving both roles. The former would make more sense since he is on his way to prison. If it is the former Crea would be a safe bet for being the new Acting Boss. Or for all we know it could be someone else entirely as has happened before many times. We just don't know until further info comes out.


Regardless I still think Amuso is calling the shots as in he is still getting his cut and still being consulted on all major decisions. Just like Gotti, Persico, Gigante and Riggi were when they were locked up.


Pogo

[Pete]

But that wasn't the actual discussion here. No one was arguing that someone other than Amuso is running the day to day on the street.


Now who do I think is Acting Boss? I would say either Madonna or Crea. Madonna had previously been IDed as Amuso's Street Boss and now the UnderBoss. That could mean that he has stepped down as Street Boss to UnderBoss or that he is serving both roles. The former would make more sense since he is on his way to prison. If it is the former Crea would be a safe bet for being the new Acting Boss. Or for all we know it could be someone else entirely as has happened before many times. We just don't know until further info comes out.


Regardless I still think Amuso is calling the shots as in he is still getting his cut and still being consulted on all major decisions. Just like Gotti, Persico, Gigante and Riggi were when they were locked up.


Pogo

Why are you guys arguing it sounds like you agree?

[Pogo The Clown]

Why are you guys arguing it sounds like you agree?

These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

It seems to be a trend among certain posters that, whenever the FBI says something they don't like or disagree with, the FBI either has it just plain wrong or is intentionally giving out false information or "shaking the tree."

Sure.

It doesn't mean the FBI isn't doing it though.

Edit: see that's where you're wrong WG. You think I'm looking for rationale to back up/reinforce an opinion.
Rather it's the rationale which is forming it.

Well, the difference is you seem to have more confidence in internet speculation than you do the FBI, Capeci, and their sources. To me, that's just ludicrous.

No.

I have confidence in the argument. Not the source.
If the Feds were saying Crea was boss, I'd be flying their flag.

Regardless I still think Amuso is calling the shots as in he is still getting his cut and still being consulted on all major decisions. Just like Gotti, Persico, Gigante and Riggi were when they were locked up.
Pogo

And there in lies the point of contention. WG and Pogo believe that, but personally, my opinion, he's Uncle Junior.

I might also add the slight inconsistency that people forget Vic was seen as nothing more than Gas's puppet 25yrs ago when he was on the street.
Now apparently he runs the day to day from the big chair with an iron hand from the can.

Uh-huh. Sure.

[Rocco]

But that wasn't the actual discussion here. No one was arguing that someone other than Amuso is running the day to day on the street.


Now who do I think is Acting Boss? I would say either Madonna or Crea. Madonna had previously been IDed as Amuso's Street Boss and now the UnderBoss. That could mean that he has stepped down as Street Boss to UnderBoss or that he is serving both roles. The former would make more sense since he is on his way to prison. If it is the former Crea would be a safe bet for being the new Acting Boss. Or for all we know it could be someone else entirely as has happened before many times. We just don't know until further info comes out.


Regardless I still think Amuso is calling the shots as in he is still getting his cut and still being consulted on all major decisions. Just like Gotti, Persico, Gigante and Riggi were when they were locked up.


Pogo

LMAO! I know that was painful to discuss your opinion on a scenario with no actual data to back it up. So I appreciate that Pogo.

[Pogo The Clown]

I might also add the slight inconsistency that people forget Vic was seen as nothing more than Gas's puppet 25yrs ago when he was on the street.
Now apparently he runs the day to day from the big chair with an iron hand from the can.

Uh-huh. Sure.

Where did it ever come out that Amuso was nothing more than Caso's puppet? Amuso was Boss for years while Casso was a Soldier.


Pogo

[Pete]

I might also add the slight inconsistency that people forget Vic was seen as nothing more than Gas's puppet 25yrs ago when he was on the street.
Now apparently he runs the day to day from the big chair with an iron hand from the can.

Uh-huh. Sure.

Where did it ever come out that Amuso was nothing more than Caso's puppet? Amuso was Boss for years while Casso was a Soldier.


Pogo

I thought when amuso got the chair casso was a capo or consig?

[123JoeSchmo]

I might also add the slight inconsistency that people forget Vic was seen as nothing more than Gas's puppet 25yrs ago when he was on the street.
Now apparently he runs the day to day from the big chair with an iron hand from the can.

Uh-huh. Sure.

Where did it ever come out that Amuso was nothing more than Caso's puppet? Amuso was Boss for years while Casso was a Soldier.


Pogo

I thought when amuso got the chair casso was a capo or consig?

I thought he was Underboss

[SonnyBlackstein]

Where did it ever come out that Amuso was nothing more than Caso's puppet? Amuso was Boss for years while Casso was a Soldier.Pogo

Neg.

Casso was a capo. Corallo offered Casso the big chair but Casso turned it down and took consig instead. Or UB. I can't remember.

[Wiseguy]

You guys are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Or people could learn from the history of these forums and how often those who think they know better than the FBI or Capeci have been proven wrong.

Nice job spinning and rewritting history there Rocco.


You and others were saying Nick Corozzo was the Boss and not Peter Gotti. That was disproven when the Depalma wiretapes later came out. Later you and others were saying again that Corozzo was the Boss and not D'Amico. Again that was disproven when informants and the Vallaro wiretapes came out. And more recently you and others were saying John Riggi was not the Boss. Once again that was disproven when wiretaps came out. So you are 0-3 on these.


In all these cases you and others used the same tired arguements. X has been in prison for x years, x has no loyalist, x is not respected, etc as if you are in a position to actually know any of that. Again it goes back to what makes sense to you than to the actual reality. It doesn't make sense to you that a guy in prison for 20 years can still be the Boss so that means he must not be.


And no one has argued that Amuso doesn't have an Acting Boss running the day to day for him. He obviosuly does as did Gotti, Persico, Gigante and Riggi when they were in prison. That doesn't mean they are no longer the Boss. That was never part of this discussion so I don't know why you keep arguing it.


Pogo

Saved me A LOT of time.

But that wasn't the actual discussion here. No one was arguing that someone other than Amuso is running the day to day on the street.


Now who do I think is Acting Boss? I would say either Madonna or Crea. Madonna had previously been IDed as Amuso's Street Boss and now the UnderBoss. That could mean that he has stepped down as Street Boss to UnderBoss or that he is serving both roles. The former would make more sense since he is on his way to prison. If it is the former Crea would be a safe bet for being the new Acting Boss. Or for all we know it could be someone else entirely as has happened before many times. We just don't know until further info comes out.


Regardless I still think Amuso is calling the shots as in he is still getting his cut and still being consulted on all major decisions. Just like Gotti, Persico, Gigante and Riggi were when they were locked up.


Pogo

And it should be pointed out that Pogo's opinion above is consistent with the information released from the feds and/or Capeci. Unlike some, Pogo isn't pulling some theory out of his ass and claiming that's the way it is. That gets to the heart of the disagreement here - opinions and what one thinks they're worth. Opinions are fine if there is no official info. But when official info is there for all to see, it's time for opinions to go by by. Anything else is just pure arrogance.

It doesn't mean the FBI isn't doing it though.

Edit: see that's where you're wrong WG. You think I'm looking for rationale to back up/reinforce an opinion.
Rather it's the rationale which is forming it.

More speculation on your part. As Pogo has pointed out, others did the same thing in the past with Peter Gotti, Jackie D'Amico, and John Riggi. Also Tommy Gieoli, I might add. And they were all proven wrong. You're just repeating history here by making the same mistakes. Good luck with that.

No.

I have confidence in the argument. Not the source.
If the Feds were saying Crea was boss, I'd be flying their flag.

You know better than the FBI. I get it. Again, good luck with that.

And there in lies the point of contention. WG and Pogo believe that, but personally, my opinion, he's Uncle Junior.

Hello! Anyone home?! Think, McFly! It's not about me or Pogo saying it. IT'S THE FBI AND CAPECI THAT ARE SAYING IT.

I know, I know, they're just shaking the tree.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Easy there tiger.

Be nice if somebody would flip already and settle this. Personally I couldn't care less if it is Vic or Herbie or Abe fucking Rubenstein who has last call.

[Wiseguy]

Easy there tiger.

Be nice if somebody would flip already and settle this. Personally I couldn't care less if it is Vic or Herbie or Abe fucking Rubenstein who has last call.

Even that hasn't always settled things. Many here will remember the arguments about the 1970s-1980s Genovese leadership on the RD forum back in the day and some, led by pic, claiming Fat Tony was the real boss and Chin didn't actually take over until Salerno's conviction in the Commission case. Never mind the fact that Vincent Cafaro said otherwise after he flipped or that there were recordings of guys like Matthew Ianniello, Angelo Ruggiero, and Fat Tony himself referring to Chin as the boss. It would seem the stubbornness of some posters knows no bounds despite how much evidence there is.