Bounty on Merlino
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Mikeymike12
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Bounty on Merlino
There was a 500 k bounty on Joey Merlino’s head from Scarfo, I don’t get how he was able to avoid that. Scarfo was close with powerful Genovese guys and then was close to the boss of the Lucchese. Plus anyone else from under the sun would be able to do it and collect from the bikers to any gang member period from any walks . Then he was locked up for 12 plus years and not one attempt by anyone trying to get that 500 k . It’s actually shocking .
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maxiestern11
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Re: Bounty on Merlino
I’d like to see the guy who approached Little Nicky to collect the 500K lol...... fast way to get yourself clipped! LolMikeymike12 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:00 pm There was a 500 k bounty on Joey Merlino’s head from Scarfo, I don’t get how he was able to avoid that. Scarfo was close with powerful Genovese guys and then was close to the boss of the Lucchese. Plus anyone else from under the sun would be able to do it and collect from the bikers to any gang member period from any walks . Then he was locked up for 12 plus years and not one attempt by anyone trying to get that 500 k . It’s actually shocking .
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Mikeymike12
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Re: Bounty on Merlino
You don’t think he would of paid? That in itself would of made him loose all respect on the street
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maxiestern11
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Re: Bounty on Merlino
First of all, no goodfella get paid....NOBODY gets paid! It’s part of the life. It’s in the job description. And any “outsider” they wouldn’t give two wooden nickels to!Mikeymike12 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:11 pm You don’t think he would of paid? That in itself would of made him loose all respect on the street
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$500,000.? a half mill? Lol.... they wouldn’t pay $50,000.!
- think of it? Before they would pay that kind of money, even if the guys killed his target, it’s cheaper to put two in his head and save the $500k (providing they even have $500k to start with)
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THAT IS one of the biggest fallacies of mob life!
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Confederate
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Re: Bounty on Merlino
Mikeymike12 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:11 pm You don’t think he would of paid? That in itself would of made him loose all respect on the street
No, is the answer and it's spelled "lose" not "loose"." Everything Woke turns to shit".
Re: Bounty on Merlino
While it's true that the bounty on someone's head has always been stuff of legend in organized crime, whether it be Joe Pistone or Joey Merlino, that does not discount the likelihood that in this situation Nicky did put the word out through certain channels in the prison system that if Joey got clipped they would get paid . Nicky was well connected with a number of different criminal groups, especially the mexicans. Nicky could get the money to the right people if the right people could prove they were responsible. Makes sense that he put the word out and it leaked back to Joey and Ralph Natale.
Now the idea that it was an open bounty or contract that someone in OC would randomly decide to fulfill and ask for payment is silly as everyone here is indicating. But Nicky was moving in other ways and his son getting made later with the Lucheses may have been in part to protect him from the blowback when the bounty became public knowledge.
Now the idea that it was an open bounty or contract that someone in OC would randomly decide to fulfill and ask for payment is silly as everyone here is indicating. But Nicky was moving in other ways and his son getting made later with the Lucheses may have been in part to protect him from the blowback when the bounty became public knowledge.
Re: Bounty on Merlino
Scarfo was in the can for life with no more pull on the streets. The game was over for him and Merlino was the new generation. The Genoveses are not for for nothing the most sophisticated family. They could make more money with someone on the streets than someone behind bars. Just my educated guess.
Re: Bounty on Merlino
That's because Scarfo had no more juice after he went down for good. People aren't gonna do favors like murder for someone if that person is never getting out of jail and is of no purpose to them like Scarfo was. Plus Scarfo probably could even pay the $500k if some nut ball actually would do it.Mikeymike12 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:00 pm There was a 500 k bounty on Joey Merlino’s head from Scarfo, I don’t get how he was able to avoid that. Scarfo was close with powerful Genovese guys and then was close to the boss of the Lucchese. Plus anyone else from under the sun would be able to do it and collect from the bikers to any gang member period from any walks . Then he was locked up for 12 plus years and not one attempt by anyone trying to get that 500 k . It’s actually shocking .
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maxiestern11
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Re: Bounty on Merlino
With all do respect fella’s I don’t imagine any of those theories are plausible in the real world that is “Cosa Nostra”!...... for a hundred very good reasons that are too numerous to enumerate here! ..... is it possible, I’d imagine yes, like 1%...... is it non viable or non plausible, yes, and more like 99%!
Re: Bounty on Merlino
Maxie, Thanks for giving all "do" respect to everyone in this thread before backhanding them, but since you are itk, please spend the time to illuminate me what is plausible in the "real world" of Cosa Nostra...Ill tell you what I think about this situation.
We know Joey was told by LE about Scarfo putting a price on his head because he did the interview about it that inspired this thread. We know Natale and Previte were told by law enforcement that communication was intercepted about a Scarfo contract on each of them because they were picked up on Previte's wiretap discussing the visit by LE. Considering the letters Scarfo was sending out of Marion of all places and what happened with Nicky Jr and the Lukes, I tend to believe Scarfo was making all the moves he could after Stanfa got indicted through any avenue. ...maybe these guys didn't take it 1000% seriously because Scarfo was doing life but Scarfo Jr. was out in the mid-90's and had a crew under the Philly flag so a hit wasn't out of the question. Whether those guys or some prison group he intended to pay or not pay or just someone dumb enough to fulfill it...and he had mexican connections from previous prison stint in Texas that he still was in contact with when he went away, so maybe it was through them.
Now I'm interested in why you think that's so implausible that the contract went out....not that anyone would ever get paid, but that fact that Scarfo put out the contract in the first place.
We know Joey was told by LE about Scarfo putting a price on his head because he did the interview about it that inspired this thread. We know Natale and Previte were told by law enforcement that communication was intercepted about a Scarfo contract on each of them because they were picked up on Previte's wiretap discussing the visit by LE. Considering the letters Scarfo was sending out of Marion of all places and what happened with Nicky Jr and the Lukes, I tend to believe Scarfo was making all the moves he could after Stanfa got indicted through any avenue. ...maybe these guys didn't take it 1000% seriously because Scarfo was doing life but Scarfo Jr. was out in the mid-90's and had a crew under the Philly flag so a hit wasn't out of the question. Whether those guys or some prison group he intended to pay or not pay or just someone dumb enough to fulfill it...and he had mexican connections from previous prison stint in Texas that he still was in contact with when he went away, so maybe it was through them.
Now I'm interested in why you think that's so implausible that the contract went out....not that anyone would ever get paid, but that fact that Scarfo put out the contract in the first place.
Re: Bounty on Merlino
This thing with dack and maxie looks like it might be getting good. Stay tuned. I'll be taking bets, pm me.
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maxiestern11
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Re: Bounty on Merlino
Dack, you certainly are entitled to your opinion. And I respect your opinion!...... you make some very good points in your post.
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But how I feel about it, and the reason I stated what I did, is for several reasons.
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a) as I stated earlier, nobody but nobody in Cosa Nostra gets paid for a hit
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b) and NO boss offers money for a hit!..... PERIOD!..... ITS NOT DONE!
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c) now because of Scarfo being aced out. Doing life, others coming into power, tried to kill his kid, etc etc., is it possible that he actually offered money? It’s possible but remember he was still a member (a boss at that), and in close with another top boss Vic Amuso, and many other top wise guys in his prison so he can’t have gone “off the rails” too much or he’d have been looked at like a screwball and a laughing stock by other top guys.
He also still has to follow “Cosa Nostra” rules! Boss or no boss he can’t just do anything he wants. Bosses like Amuso and others would pull him “on the carpet” in two seconds flat! ..... remember NYC IS the commission and power over ALL members, bosses and former bosses included!
And the fact that Scarfo Jr., was made in another family at Nicky Sr’s request would only go to strengthen my point that he had to, and would want to, keep in the good graces of Amuso and the other four NYC bosses! Not to have his son ostracized and be left with NO protection out there. And Nick Sr inside jail for that matter!
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d) although there have been mob guys to offer money for someone else to kill for them, it’s usually been a half-assed Guy, or some associate with no balls to do it himself. Or a mob guy not well “plugged in” so to speak, who doesn’t have the resources or juice to get a guy clipped. So he’ll try and hire someone for the hit.
But a top guy, especially a boss who had run a whole city? He just doesn’t think that way! It’s NOT Cosa Nostra!
***** and there is a SPECIFIC RULE against hiring “outsiders” to do work! It is NOT allowed...... its a firm rule!
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e) let’s even say, for the sake of argument that Scarfo did. Do you really think that anybody in the mob with even “half of a brain”, even a half-assed dummy associate would really take that contract and expect to get paid? To actually collect $500,000. ice cold cash! ..... from a stone killer, Mob Boss, cheapest guy on the planet like Scarfo?
Even an outsider would have to think twice about what he’s asking and the reality of getting paid. Scarfo himself would NEVER give up that kind of money. In fact I tell you now, and I’ve been around guys my whole life, that most of them are not even worth a half-mill, let alone give it up to some popcorn! And 99% of them (even if they had that kind of money) would never give it up and blow it!
f) next...... any self-respecting and knowledgeable true “Wiseguy” is never going to entrust a “murder” to just anyone!... Hell, they don’t even trust close associstes half the time with something that serious. Your talking MURDER here! Life imprisonment!
This is not a cakewalk, but serious shit! Only very, very, trusted and capable guys are typically used! Now you could say that in recent times they’ve used lots of jerk-offs for killings and you’d be right! But a boss like Scarfo knows better than that!
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g) and probably the MOST important reason I’ve mentioned, that I think makes perfect sense, is that if he wanted Merlino dead because Joey had tried to kill his son Nick Jr., or a combo of reasons like jealousy, envy, money, hatred, etc.....to the point of having to ask Amuso for a transfer of his son to that NYC Family so as to “protect”
his kid from further retribution.
This is not a casual request understand? We are taking about made guys here, “inducted” members who ALL share a common bond, NY or Philly, makes no difference!
To have his wish granted, BOTH families have to sit and agree.
Lucchese to “accept”, and Philadelphia to “release”. There becomes a final agreement that NO more violence on either side is to be!...., Its OVER!
For Scarfo to put out a hit, offering money or not, breaks that Cosa Nostra official “formal” sitdown!
Understand??
By doing that Scarfo Sr and Jr are essentially “spitting in the face of Vic Amuso - an OFFICIAL Boss, and Scarfo Jr’s Boss and Mentor! And breaking the most basic of mob rules - the sitdown! ....... final decisions after a sitdown are binding.... (especially at that high a level) ....to the grave! Scarfo had been a judge at enough of them in his time to know and respect that!
They’d BOTH get clipped for that! And be compete “persona non grata” understand me?
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Nicky Scarfo is NOT that stupid believe me!!!
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Need I say more? I think and hope not!
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Finito! ..... Buona Notte amico mia!
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But how I feel about it, and the reason I stated what I did, is for several reasons.
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a) as I stated earlier, nobody but nobody in Cosa Nostra gets paid for a hit
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b) and NO boss offers money for a hit!..... PERIOD!..... ITS NOT DONE!
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c) now because of Scarfo being aced out. Doing life, others coming into power, tried to kill his kid, etc etc., is it possible that he actually offered money? It’s possible but remember he was still a member (a boss at that), and in close with another top boss Vic Amuso, and many other top wise guys in his prison so he can’t have gone “off the rails” too much or he’d have been looked at like a screwball and a laughing stock by other top guys.
He also still has to follow “Cosa Nostra” rules! Boss or no boss he can’t just do anything he wants. Bosses like Amuso and others would pull him “on the carpet” in two seconds flat! ..... remember NYC IS the commission and power over ALL members, bosses and former bosses included!
And the fact that Scarfo Jr., was made in another family at Nicky Sr’s request would only go to strengthen my point that he had to, and would want to, keep in the good graces of Amuso and the other four NYC bosses! Not to have his son ostracized and be left with NO protection out there. And Nick Sr inside jail for that matter!
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d) although there have been mob guys to offer money for someone else to kill for them, it’s usually been a half-assed Guy, or some associate with no balls to do it himself. Or a mob guy not well “plugged in” so to speak, who doesn’t have the resources or juice to get a guy clipped. So he’ll try and hire someone for the hit.
But a top guy, especially a boss who had run a whole city? He just doesn’t think that way! It’s NOT Cosa Nostra!
***** and there is a SPECIFIC RULE against hiring “outsiders” to do work! It is NOT allowed...... its a firm rule!
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e) let’s even say, for the sake of argument that Scarfo did. Do you really think that anybody in the mob with even “half of a brain”, even a half-assed dummy associate would really take that contract and expect to get paid? To actually collect $500,000. ice cold cash! ..... from a stone killer, Mob Boss, cheapest guy on the planet like Scarfo?
Even an outsider would have to think twice about what he’s asking and the reality of getting paid. Scarfo himself would NEVER give up that kind of money. In fact I tell you now, and I’ve been around guys my whole life, that most of them are not even worth a half-mill, let alone give it up to some popcorn! And 99% of them (even if they had that kind of money) would never give it up and blow it!
f) next...... any self-respecting and knowledgeable true “Wiseguy” is never going to entrust a “murder” to just anyone!... Hell, they don’t even trust close associstes half the time with something that serious. Your talking MURDER here! Life imprisonment!
This is not a cakewalk, but serious shit! Only very, very, trusted and capable guys are typically used! Now you could say that in recent times they’ve used lots of jerk-offs for killings and you’d be right! But a boss like Scarfo knows better than that!
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g) and probably the MOST important reason I’ve mentioned, that I think makes perfect sense, is that if he wanted Merlino dead because Joey had tried to kill his son Nick Jr., or a combo of reasons like jealousy, envy, money, hatred, etc.....to the point of having to ask Amuso for a transfer of his son to that NYC Family so as to “protect”
his kid from further retribution.
This is not a casual request understand? We are taking about made guys here, “inducted” members who ALL share a common bond, NY or Philly, makes no difference!
To have his wish granted, BOTH families have to sit and agree.
Lucchese to “accept”, and Philadelphia to “release”. There becomes a final agreement that NO more violence on either side is to be!...., Its OVER!
For Scarfo to put out a hit, offering money or not, breaks that Cosa Nostra official “formal” sitdown!
Understand??
By doing that Scarfo Sr and Jr are essentially “spitting in the face of Vic Amuso - an OFFICIAL Boss, and Scarfo Jr’s Boss and Mentor! And breaking the most basic of mob rules - the sitdown! ....... final decisions after a sitdown are binding.... (especially at that high a level) ....to the grave! Scarfo had been a judge at enough of them in his time to know and respect that!
They’d BOTH get clipped for that! And be compete “persona non grata” understand me?
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Nicky Scarfo is NOT that stupid believe me!!!
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Need I say more? I think and hope not!
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Finito! ..... Buona Notte amico mia!
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maxiestern11
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Re: Bounty on Merlino
...... and yet is it possible? Of course, most things are! And stranger things have happened in life.
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I just find it implausible!
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I just find it implausible!
Re: Bounty on Merlino
Maxie, you keep talking in theories and plausibility like some physics professor in his first year teaching. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday, every cosa nostra rule has been broken a million times. The rules are made to be broken. Nicky hit Vince Falcone without Bruno's ok, for crying out loud. In this situation are also conflating a bunch of events that are all interrelated and impacted each other on a linear timeline, while ignoring their significance.
Here's the thing how it went down in my opinion. Scarfo is away doing life. Gets stripped of his rank and Stanfa gets the nod. Stanfa gets indicted around the time Nicky Jr. is getting released from his bid. Nicky Jr. isn't made into the Lukes at this time, he's still under the Philly flag. He opens that spot in Ventnor and Joey takes the reins officially with Ralph the titular head. We know from Phil that Nicky Scarfo is sending letters and calling Nicky Jr. to kill Joey Merlino, just like he was before Nicky Jr. went away in the Fresolone thing. Joey is sending Johnny Chang down to Ventnor to shake Nicky Jr. down to pay tribute. Nicky Sr., who only followed the rules when it suited him (like most guys), is doing everything he can to get Joey and Ralph killed, including prison contracts etc (which isn't as crazy as you seem to think). This contract on the sneak gets intercepted and reported by LE to Joey and his guys.
Once word is out Nicky Sr. and Jr. both know its a matter of time before Jr. gets hit and Philly would be within its rights to hit him and Joey has the hitters to get it done. This is when Nicky Sr. goes to Vic, who has no authority to intervene in a philly dispute (under the rules!), and Vic agrees to take Nicky Jr. and make him in the Luchese to insulate him. Vic is a boss of another family and Nicky is a soldier (remember everyone in CN are equal, a boss is just first among equals) So many rules, all getting broken, left and right. Nicky Jr. gets made without Philly ok, Joey gets indicted, Joe Ligambi takes the Philly beef against the Lucheses to the Gambinos after things settle (which is another fact we know) and at some point Nicky Jr. gets broke by the Lukes, his crew is assigned to Philly and he heads to Texas and rips off the bank and gets 30 years.
My point was always that its quite plausible that Nicky sr. sent that contract out. You responded with rules that CN isn't supposed to hire hitters outside the family with contracts etc. I think history is on my side here, don't fall in love with "rules" and thinking history plays out like a newspaper article and a court trial. Parts of the truth are within each of these things but getting to actual truth is like a puzzle that has to be put together with all the available facts.
Here's the thing how it went down in my opinion. Scarfo is away doing life. Gets stripped of his rank and Stanfa gets the nod. Stanfa gets indicted around the time Nicky Jr. is getting released from his bid. Nicky Jr. isn't made into the Lukes at this time, he's still under the Philly flag. He opens that spot in Ventnor and Joey takes the reins officially with Ralph the titular head. We know from Phil that Nicky Scarfo is sending letters and calling Nicky Jr. to kill Joey Merlino, just like he was before Nicky Jr. went away in the Fresolone thing. Joey is sending Johnny Chang down to Ventnor to shake Nicky Jr. down to pay tribute. Nicky Sr., who only followed the rules when it suited him (like most guys), is doing everything he can to get Joey and Ralph killed, including prison contracts etc (which isn't as crazy as you seem to think). This contract on the sneak gets intercepted and reported by LE to Joey and his guys.
Once word is out Nicky Sr. and Jr. both know its a matter of time before Jr. gets hit and Philly would be within its rights to hit him and Joey has the hitters to get it done. This is when Nicky Sr. goes to Vic, who has no authority to intervene in a philly dispute (under the rules!), and Vic agrees to take Nicky Jr. and make him in the Luchese to insulate him. Vic is a boss of another family and Nicky is a soldier (remember everyone in CN are equal, a boss is just first among equals) So many rules, all getting broken, left and right. Nicky Jr. gets made without Philly ok, Joey gets indicted, Joe Ligambi takes the Philly beef against the Lucheses to the Gambinos after things settle (which is another fact we know) and at some point Nicky Jr. gets broke by the Lukes, his crew is assigned to Philly and he heads to Texas and rips off the bank and gets 30 years.
My point was always that its quite plausible that Nicky sr. sent that contract out. You responded with rules that CN isn't supposed to hire hitters outside the family with contracts etc. I think history is on my side here, don't fall in love with "rules" and thinking history plays out like a newspaper article and a court trial. Parts of the truth are within each of these things but getting to actual truth is like a puzzle that has to be put together with all the available facts.
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maxiestern11
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Re: Bounty on Merlino
As I said from the beginning it’s possible, but IMO improbable...... everyone is entitled to their opinion. I guess it’s best to just agree to disagree in this instance ok!
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You know what they say about opinions right? They’re just like assholes, everybody has one! Lol
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And Nicky Sr., being desperate (if that was even the case), and being a half a screwball could have done something like that, certainly!
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But he also was a “stickler” for CN, and although everyone is capable of, and some do break cardinal rules, if in fact he did this before approaching Vic Amuso, that’s one thing (I’m honestly not familiar with the timeline), but if he ordered the so-called contract after approaching Amuso then I DO NOT believe it!
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As I said previously, Nicky was a half a nut!
But he wasn’t that nutty!
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You know what they say about opinions right? They’re just like assholes, everybody has one! Lol
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And Nicky Sr., being desperate (if that was even the case), and being a half a screwball could have done something like that, certainly!
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But he also was a “stickler” for CN, and although everyone is capable of, and some do break cardinal rules, if in fact he did this before approaching Vic Amuso, that’s one thing (I’m honestly not familiar with the timeline), but if he ordered the so-called contract after approaching Amuso then I DO NOT believe it!
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As I said previously, Nicky was a half a nut!
But he wasn’t that nutty!