Kenjis book and Milano family
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
If Pete was content with letting the family die why did he bother to make new members? Tommy gambino is relatively young and we know he was brought in to the family
I agree with phat,I love those old fucks and he's right.we all got some cosa nostra in us.I personnely love the life.I think we on the forum would be the ultimate crew! - camerono
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
Don't know.Pete wrote:If Pete was content with letting the family die why did he bother to make new members? Tommy gambino is relatively young and we know he was brought in to the family
But check this out: relates to Gambino in LA.
http://breakshotblog.blogspot.com/2014/ ... itics.html
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
Made members Dominick Longo was from Buffalo and Tommy Ricciardi was from Jersey/NY.
Reading some of the Fed files about the DeSimone reign Frattianos assessment of DeSimone as Boss was pretty accurate. DeSimone was a weak Boss who really let family fall apart (not making any members during his reign, pulling the family back from most of the street rackets, etc0.
Pogo
Reading some of the Fed files about the DeSimone reign Frattianos assessment of DeSimone as Boss was pretty accurate. DeSimone was a weak Boss who really let family fall apart (not making any members during his reign, pulling the family back from most of the street rackets, etc0.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
Christie hit the nail on the head. Instead of trying to be a "real gangster," Milano recognized his time and place for what it was (and wasn't) and operated accordingly. As a result, he didn't do that much prison time and died a millionaire. Meanwhile, Frattiano, Fiato, and Kenji, who all claimed Milano was weak, and fancied themselves true gangsters, ended up flipping. Milano probably had more brains than those three combined.
All roads lead to New York.
Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
hey Rick, good to hear from you. I agree with everything you say. The source could be someone other than a Milano but he was very intimate with the Milano's current business dealings (in the 1960s) but also knew a lot about their backstory, including specific dates and money values.Antiliar wrote:Ed,long time no see, buddy. We know that the Los Angeles Family hasd quite a few informants: Frank Bompensiero, Jimmy Fratianno, "Dago Louie" Piscopo/Merli, Louis Dragna, Fiato, as well as plenty of associates like Kenji. Mickey Cohen even provided some intel. Plus the LAPD Intelligence Unit really monitored those guys, which is one of the reasons the Los Angeles Family failed to grow. The LAPD even chased out Capone when he came in 1927 and Accardo and Giancana when they came in 1950.Ed wrote:MF has some very specific information about the Milanos, ie business dealings and personal criminal history, that always suggested to me that one of them could have shared some confidential information with the FBI.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
It could be Carmen Milano. In the 90s he almost flipped for the feds but then changed his mind at the last minute and din't go all the way. Maybe he was secretely feeding info back then?
Pogo
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
Mere speculation. Not saying he wasn't, but there has never been concrete proof of that. I could assure you his father Tony and uncle Frank wouldn't have taken that too well.Pogo The Clown wrote:It could be Carmen Milano. In the 90s he almost flipped for the feds but then changed his mind at the last minute and din't go all the way. Maybe he was secretely feeding info back then?
Pogo
"I figure I’m gonna have to do about 6000 years before I get accepted into heaven. And 6000 years is nothing in eternity terms. I can do that standing on my head. It’s like a couple of days here."
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
I think it was quite common in the 1960s for mobsters to share confidential information with the FBI as long as they believed it couldn't be used (in their minds at least) to hurt other mobsters. The Bureau was desperate for this type of intel at the time. Harry Riccobene once told the FBI that it was okay to talk with law enforcement "as long as one does not "hurt" anyone."
Another example of a mobster who shared historical information about his crime family was Pittsburgh Crime Family member Sam Mannarino. He told the FBI a ton of stuff about the family going back to the 1930s, how he started off, who made him, etc but didn't really reveal anything, as far as I could tell, that could be used to hurt anyone.
Another example of a mobster who shared historical information about his crime family was Pittsburgh Crime Family member Sam Mannarino. He told the FBI a ton of stuff about the family going back to the 1930s, how he started off, who made him, etc but didn't really reveal anything, as far as I could tell, that could be used to hurt anyone.
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FriendofHenry
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
I would be interested in what JCB has to say about this. I'm not saying you're wrong, I am saying: I don't know.Ed wrote:I think it was quite common in the 1960s for mobsters to share confidential information with the FBI as long as they believed it couldn't be used (in their minds at least) to hurt other mobsters. The Bureau was desperate for this type of intel at the time. Harry Riccobene once told the FBI that it was okay to talk with law enforcement "as long as one does not "hurt" anyone."
Another example of a mobster who shared historical information about his crime family was Pittsburgh Crime Family member Sam Mannarino. He told the FBI a ton of stuff about the family going back to the 1930s, how he started off, who made him, etc but didn't really reveal anything, as far as I could tell, that could be used to hurt anyone.
"Never walk in a room unless you know your way out" - Henry Zottola
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
There is an interesting sidenote to the strength of the LA Family and it's that east coast members began moving in there in the 60's and 70's and LA did nothing about it. This kinda irked Fratianno who- like I said previously wanted to be a boss- there was talk during Licata's reign that Fratianno was "doing his own thing." In Fact when Brooklier pulled him in 20 years later in 87 and said something about two families, Fratianno replied: "Don't pull that Nick Licata shit with me."
Rizzitello might have been sanctioned or non-sanctioned by LA when he was made by Fratianno in a car. But when Fratianno flipped, he was Rizzitello's mentor and he was left holding the sour grapes. It appears he was ostracized and according to Fiato, Rizzitello was sanctioned to start his own crew under the "protection" of Neil Dellacroce. When Rizzitello went to prison, Tony Rome took over. Tony Rome's book was horribly written, no two ways about it. But he distinctly states that in the 80's you had the traditional LA Family and you had Rizzitello's Neil-sanctioned crew.
When Rome flipped and Rizzi went to prison it was over. But if any you remember the early 2000's and Jiggy. You'll remember that he stated that the Rizzitello crime family continued. He had the whole thing laid out and argued that if it had happened during Fratianno's time, he would have ended up as Boss, Roselli as Consig and Frank Bomp as under. But as they all left it fell to Rizzi. After Rizzi it was Rome, then it was Joey Ipp and Acting Boss and Ronnie Lorenzo as Underboss (Pogo, remember you saying you never seen him as anything higher than an associate 10 years ago???) And Sal "Harry Leonard" Giglio was consig from Florida.. And after Joey Ipp fled due to the heat from the OJ case (the Rizzi crew secretly whacked Nicole due to a drug deal Da Juice had fucked up. Michael Jackson was a drug dealer also along with some Haitian dancer that was killed.) And after Joey Ipp fled, it fell on none other than.... Michael Franzese, Acting Boss of the Rizzitello Crime Family, a family shrouded in secrecy because the LAPD is so corrupt and are paid off. AJ Cowlings was a crew member. Joe Isgro was a capo I think. Big Mac McKenna was a crew member also but was killed after running afoul of them. And George H Bush took some payoff allegedly involving Michael's dad and so the Rizzitello family had an in with the Bush Family (who was president when Jiggy told me this) and the Royal Saudi Family who was related through marriage to Alvin Malkin, Jiggy's alleged successor to Meyer Lansky. It all connected with that guy.
It's all bullshit. But there was ALOT of non-LA Family OC going on around them. The Milanos were released from prison in the 90's and didn't want to go back. The people Pete Milano surrounded himself with were plump sleepy housecats and underlings like Saporno Rob. By the 90's it was barely even a crime family. One member was involved in this, another in that. And once a sting happened, it shattered pretty much the racket. But the majority of them lived upper class lives, brushed against some porn stars and sang in Italian restaurants. They weren't the Scarfo Mob, they were guys living out the last of what was left. Scarfo's going to die in prison. Pete Milano died of old age, rich off of his coffee shops and probably some marginal rainy day cash he received as tribute. He apparently left no successor. If Tommy Gambino picked it up, he was ran out of Philly in the 90's by Joey Merlino, so who knows what clout he even has.
I can't answer why Milano made new guys when he failed to replace captains and admin positions. But my argument has always been that you don't really need a structure in place to have OC. The Italians in LA, even currently including Joe Isgro and Bobby Paduano (who was supposed to have been made but the cops were nearby and it was called off and never happened- he remains active as far as I know in Orange County) and Tommy Gambino function in LA and 'dabble' in illegal acts. Do they know each other? Do they brush up against eachother? Most certainly. But to say they are part of something organized is disingenuous to the truth.
Interesting sidenote: Kenji Gallo beat the shit out Ronnie Lorenzo and recorded it. I heard Ronnie scream "please don't hurt me."
And in 05 or so Jiggy was claiming there was some high level secret LA member nobody ever heard of. Kenji called Caci right in front of me and put him speaker phone, asked if he ever heard of it, Caci cut him off with: "Bahhh I don't even know the fuck that is!" Jiggy's response is that the guy is too high level for regular members to know about him. Ok...
Kenji had connections, i can verify that firsthand. Does he embellish, does he read what we read and splice that into what he already knows personally: no question. But he remained friends with Caci after he flipped. He was able to call Caci on the phone and have amicable conversations. Caci seemed to understand why he flipped and they discussed no current things... This was firsthand in OC, CA, take of that what you will. But to me, it speaks loudly that the LA Family has been essentially defunct for quite some time. If you're Milano and you're a millionaire and you're 70, why make a bunch of crazy assholes who will get you in trouble? Because quite honestly, there hasn't been a sizable "Little Italy" in San Francisco, San Jose, LA or San Diego for quite some time. There are tourist sections "Little Italy" with some 100 year old restaurants but that is absolutely it. There was nothing left in LA for Milano to "bring in" even if he wanted to. As we already discussed most of the members came from the East Coast-ish anyway.
And I'd argue that's again due to immigration patterns. West Coast Italian immigration started in 1880 and lost out to NY by 1900. Most of your Italian demographics felt a slight upsurge in the 10's-60's when Italians traveled from the American Northeast like CL, Pittsburgh (and surrounding areas), NY, Buffalo and Boston. By 1960 "Italian LA" was essentially defunct, so it's rather amazing that they lasted 50 years after that. But as we look into how, we see that many of their members came from the east coast with various connections to established Families/Networks. Unlike the east coast enclaves of NY and (formerly) Boston, LA just simply didn't have an East Harlem or Williamsburgh with litterally 1000's of compaesani spread out in 2 cross buildings.
LA Had organized crime in the 20's: Dominick DiCiolla, August Palumbo, Marco Albori, Joe Ardizzone (Mafia), Rosario DiGiorgio, the Matrangas. But that's another city like NO who's Italo-immigration patterns peaked and faded early. We can't even confirm who who was who. Early LA is interesting, but confusing.
Rizzitello might have been sanctioned or non-sanctioned by LA when he was made by Fratianno in a car. But when Fratianno flipped, he was Rizzitello's mentor and he was left holding the sour grapes. It appears he was ostracized and according to Fiato, Rizzitello was sanctioned to start his own crew under the "protection" of Neil Dellacroce. When Rizzitello went to prison, Tony Rome took over. Tony Rome's book was horribly written, no two ways about it. But he distinctly states that in the 80's you had the traditional LA Family and you had Rizzitello's Neil-sanctioned crew.
When Rome flipped and Rizzi went to prison it was over. But if any you remember the early 2000's and Jiggy. You'll remember that he stated that the Rizzitello crime family continued. He had the whole thing laid out and argued that if it had happened during Fratianno's time, he would have ended up as Boss, Roselli as Consig and Frank Bomp as under. But as they all left it fell to Rizzi. After Rizzi it was Rome, then it was Joey Ipp and Acting Boss and Ronnie Lorenzo as Underboss (Pogo, remember you saying you never seen him as anything higher than an associate 10 years ago???) And Sal "Harry Leonard" Giglio was consig from Florida.. And after Joey Ipp fled due to the heat from the OJ case (the Rizzi crew secretly whacked Nicole due to a drug deal Da Juice had fucked up. Michael Jackson was a drug dealer also along with some Haitian dancer that was killed.) And after Joey Ipp fled, it fell on none other than.... Michael Franzese, Acting Boss of the Rizzitello Crime Family, a family shrouded in secrecy because the LAPD is so corrupt and are paid off. AJ Cowlings was a crew member. Joe Isgro was a capo I think. Big Mac McKenna was a crew member also but was killed after running afoul of them. And George H Bush took some payoff allegedly involving Michael's dad and so the Rizzitello family had an in with the Bush Family (who was president when Jiggy told me this) and the Royal Saudi Family who was related through marriage to Alvin Malkin, Jiggy's alleged successor to Meyer Lansky. It all connected with that guy.
It's all bullshit. But there was ALOT of non-LA Family OC going on around them. The Milanos were released from prison in the 90's and didn't want to go back. The people Pete Milano surrounded himself with were plump sleepy housecats and underlings like Saporno Rob. By the 90's it was barely even a crime family. One member was involved in this, another in that. And once a sting happened, it shattered pretty much the racket. But the majority of them lived upper class lives, brushed against some porn stars and sang in Italian restaurants. They weren't the Scarfo Mob, they were guys living out the last of what was left. Scarfo's going to die in prison. Pete Milano died of old age, rich off of his coffee shops and probably some marginal rainy day cash he received as tribute. He apparently left no successor. If Tommy Gambino picked it up, he was ran out of Philly in the 90's by Joey Merlino, so who knows what clout he even has.
I can't answer why Milano made new guys when he failed to replace captains and admin positions. But my argument has always been that you don't really need a structure in place to have OC. The Italians in LA, even currently including Joe Isgro and Bobby Paduano (who was supposed to have been made but the cops were nearby and it was called off and never happened- he remains active as far as I know in Orange County) and Tommy Gambino function in LA and 'dabble' in illegal acts. Do they know each other? Do they brush up against eachother? Most certainly. But to say they are part of something organized is disingenuous to the truth.
Interesting sidenote: Kenji Gallo beat the shit out Ronnie Lorenzo and recorded it. I heard Ronnie scream "please don't hurt me."
And in 05 or so Jiggy was claiming there was some high level secret LA member nobody ever heard of. Kenji called Caci right in front of me and put him speaker phone, asked if he ever heard of it, Caci cut him off with: "Bahhh I don't even know the fuck that is!" Jiggy's response is that the guy is too high level for regular members to know about him. Ok...
Kenji had connections, i can verify that firsthand. Does he embellish, does he read what we read and splice that into what he already knows personally: no question. But he remained friends with Caci after he flipped. He was able to call Caci on the phone and have amicable conversations. Caci seemed to understand why he flipped and they discussed no current things... This was firsthand in OC, CA, take of that what you will. But to me, it speaks loudly that the LA Family has been essentially defunct for quite some time. If you're Milano and you're a millionaire and you're 70, why make a bunch of crazy assholes who will get you in trouble? Because quite honestly, there hasn't been a sizable "Little Italy" in San Francisco, San Jose, LA or San Diego for quite some time. There are tourist sections "Little Italy" with some 100 year old restaurants but that is absolutely it. There was nothing left in LA for Milano to "bring in" even if he wanted to. As we already discussed most of the members came from the East Coast-ish anyway.
And I'd argue that's again due to immigration patterns. West Coast Italian immigration started in 1880 and lost out to NY by 1900. Most of your Italian demographics felt a slight upsurge in the 10's-60's when Italians traveled from the American Northeast like CL, Pittsburgh (and surrounding areas), NY, Buffalo and Boston. By 1960 "Italian LA" was essentially defunct, so it's rather amazing that they lasted 50 years after that. But as we look into how, we see that many of their members came from the east coast with various connections to established Families/Networks. Unlike the east coast enclaves of NY and (formerly) Boston, LA just simply didn't have an East Harlem or Williamsburgh with litterally 1000's of compaesani spread out in 2 cross buildings.
LA Had organized crime in the 20's: Dominick DiCiolla, August Palumbo, Marco Albori, Joe Ardizzone (Mafia), Rosario DiGiorgio, the Matrangas. But that's another city like NO who's Italo-immigration patterns peaked and faded early. We can't even confirm who who was who. Early LA is interesting, but confusing.
Last edited by Angelo Santino on Fri May 29, 2015 12:15 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
I'm just not aware of anyone else in L.A. who was giving out info, even if it didn't "hurt anyone."Ed wrote:I think it was quite common in the 1960s for mobsters to share confidential information with the FBI as long as they believed it couldn't be used (in their minds at least) to hurt other mobsters. The Bureau was desperate for this type of intel at the time. Harry Riccobene once told the FBI that it was okay to talk with law enforcement "as long as one does not "hurt" anyone."
Another example of a mobster who shared historical information about his crime family was Pittsburgh Crime Family member Sam Mannarino. He told the FBI a ton of stuff about the family going back to the 1930s, how he started off, who made him, etc but didn't really reveal anything, as far as I could tell, that could be used to hurt anyone.
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
Yeah I remember that whole Rizzetello Crime Family stuff. 
I managed to save a chart that was posted about them way back when. It is good for a laugh.
Administration:
Boss: Michael "Mike Rizzi" Rizzitello (IP)
-Acting Boss: Joseph "Joe" Ippolito
UnderBoss: Ronald "Ronnie" Lorenzo
-Micahel Franzese - Doesn't have an official rank but is close in status to Lorenzo.
Consiglieri: Salvatore "Harry Leonard" Giglio
Capos/Crews:
Bicycle Club Crew - Answers to Lorenzo and Ippolito
Hollywood Crew - Lorenzo's Crew, Street Boss is Michael "Hollywood Mike" Divencio
Rizzi Crew - Rizzitello's old Crew, Capo is Craig Fiato
Hollywood Hills Crew - Franzese's Crew, Capo is Robert "Victor" Viggiano
Beverly Hills Crew - Answers to Giglio, Capo is Joseph "Joe" Isgro (IP), Acting Capo is Tommasso Gambino
Orange County Crew - Capo is Robert "Bobby" Paduano
The family numbers 60 members of all ethnicities and their rackets are drug trafficking, extortion, porno and home invasion robberies. They also have their hooks into the entertainment industry (including HBO).
Like we said before their was a lot of bullshit on the forums back in those days.
Pogo
I managed to save a chart that was posted about them way back when. It is good for a laugh.Administration:
Boss: Michael "Mike Rizzi" Rizzitello (IP)
-Acting Boss: Joseph "Joe" Ippolito
UnderBoss: Ronald "Ronnie" Lorenzo
-Micahel Franzese - Doesn't have an official rank but is close in status to Lorenzo.
Consiglieri: Salvatore "Harry Leonard" Giglio
Capos/Crews:
Bicycle Club Crew - Answers to Lorenzo and Ippolito
Hollywood Crew - Lorenzo's Crew, Street Boss is Michael "Hollywood Mike" Divencio
Rizzi Crew - Rizzitello's old Crew, Capo is Craig Fiato
Hollywood Hills Crew - Franzese's Crew, Capo is Robert "Victor" Viggiano
Beverly Hills Crew - Answers to Giglio, Capo is Joseph "Joe" Isgro (IP), Acting Capo is Tommasso Gambino
Orange County Crew - Capo is Robert "Bobby" Paduano
The family numbers 60 members of all ethnicities and their rackets are drug trafficking, extortion, porno and home invasion robberies. They also have their hooks into the entertainment industry (including HBO).
Like we said before their was a lot of bullshit on the forums back in those days.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
^ Who came up with that load of horse doodoo? 
All roads lead to New York.
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Angelo Santino
- Filthy Few
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
Jiggy had me create some charts- I was 16 fucking years old for God's sakes, don't hold it against me- and he sent Michael Franzese on AOL the chart with Michael's face at the top as Acting Boss. Franzese flipped out, threatened legal action and closed his AOL IM's. (You can thank Jiggy for whoever used to converse with MF on AOL Instant Message and listen to his Christian bullshit gospel that I think he had on "copy and paste.").Pogo The Clown wrote:Yeah I remember that whole Rizzetello Crime Family stuff.
Administration:
Boss: Michael "Rizzi" Rizzitello (IP)
-Acting Boss: Joseph "Joe" Ippolito
UnderBoss: Ronald "Ronnie" Lorenzo
-Micahel Franzese - Doesn't have an official rank ubt is close in status to Lorenzo.
Consiglieri: Salvatore "Harry Leonard" Giglio
Capos/Crews:
Bicycle Club Crew - Answers to Lorenzo and Ippolito
Hollywood Crew - Lorenzo's Crew, Street Boss is Michael "Hollywood Mike" Divencio
Rizzi Crew - Rizzitello's old Crew, Capo is Craig Fiato
Hollywood Hills Crew - Franzese's Crew, Capo is Robert "Victor" Viggiano
Beverly Hills Crew - Answers to Giglio, Capo is Joseph "Joe" Isgro (IP), Acting Capo is Tommasso Gaambino
Orange County Crew - Capo is Robert "Bobby" Paduano
The family numbers 60 members of all ethnicities and their rackets are drug trafficking, extortion, porno and home invasion robberies. They also have their hooks into the entertainment industry (including HBO).
Like we said before their was a lot of bullshit on the forums back in those days.
Pogo
I'm going to go through my old CD's, I might still have those charts
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Pogo The Clown
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Re: Kenjis book and Milano family
Chris Christie wrote:Jiggy had me create some charts- I was 16 fucking years old for God's sakes, don't hold it against me
Of course not. I was a teen myself and I fell for that shit.
Ah the good ole days of the mob forums. 
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.