Lupara wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:36 am
Wiseguy wrote:Chris Christie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:28 pm
I believe in the possibility of that as well. Which would mean they were largely defunct between 1997 and 2014 and not "under the radar" so to speak. Which would fit with what you've said for years about no one escaping scrutiny.
I have to say, I do get the sense that there's something larger going on in this disagreement, some carryover, call it shell-shock from the old forum days where 30 assholes competed for the most interesting take on their preferred Family. The forums have matured since then and I'd say all of us involved in this discussion- me, B., Eboli, Nicklecity etc are keeping it within the realm of possibility completely guided by sources stemming from a Canadian law enforcement investigation which resulted in convictions.I'm sorry the FBI hasn't commented and we'll have to wait and see what happens down the road. If it comes out it was BS and Violi was drunk and Porky was trout fishing I'll form my conclusion on that. But if the latter occurs and American cases are made, are you willing to then revisit your conclusions on Buffalo?
For me to rethink my position on Buffalo, the FBI would pretty much have to do a 180 on their position, as well as subsequent cases to show for it. Needless to say, I'm not holding my breath for either.
Fughedaboutit wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:03 pmIt is possible and there are the tapes of a member saying so, but these guys just keep saying shit like "it isn't possible that this happened, are you out of your mind" over and over based solely off their feelings on the subject.
Yeah, our feelings. Not what the FBI and other law enforcement have said. Not the continual and demonstrable decline in membership. Not the lack of significant cases. Our feelings.
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:19 pm
The frustration your feeling is inconsistency. We have evidence, Law Enforcement, a trial, key, taped verbatim and the ‘opposing side’ does not even cede an inch in ground in recognition of the possibility that any of the above holds weight.
The frustration emanates that these exact criteria are what the aforementioned usually trumpet as the gold standards in credibility.
We now understand that it’s not ‘Law Enforcement’ which has credibility, only one very specific agency in that umbrella.
Again, a lot of things are possible.
But what's more
probable?
That the FBI and other law enforcementhas been wrong about the Buffalo LCN, there are a bunch of members flying under the radar (many of which got made in only a few years), and the family decided to turn the lights back on after all this time?
Or.....
That maybe Violi's "30 guys" comment should be taken with a grain of salt and, perhaps, we shouldn't read too much into that article that was essentially a theory by the writer about what's going on with the family?
Such statements coming from an admin member should never be taken with a grain of salt until it is actually
proven without a reasonable doubt that it is incorrect. Your arrogance in this debate is astounding. You base your pov on secondhand articles quoting outdated statements from FBI agents and then pretend to have more insight than an inducted high ranking member. If I wouldn't have known better I would've thought you work in the FBI's pr department.
The recent events "cross the t's and dots the... lower case j's" (Waynes World 2 reference, mi despiac') in terms of what this board qualifies as having viability.
1) Convictions. A) Project Otremens conducted by the RCMP but also closer to home, in the recent Zummo case conducted by the EDNY who mentioned the "Todaro Crime Family."
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/me ... s-arrested
2) Evidence of criminal activity. See above, related to drugs.
3) Boss, Underboss, Captain, 30 alleged members, ceremonies as recent as 2015. It would be preposterous to suggest that Violi was lying, wrong, off about all of that.
Apart from a few very important quotes, alot of the tidbits contained in the articles are summaries of what Violi was talking about. It would be interesting to obtain more wiretap quotes from Violi. Has any thought about contacting the authors of these articles asking if they can provide any more information of the such? Who knows they might have gotten access to more transcripts and thought it better to summarize.
What Violi said about:
1 Where are these so-called 30 members? Did he go into any more specifics? Such as having to go to Buffalo weekly? There should be some more Ralph DeLeo-like conversations in there.
2 Who exactly told him "you beat out 30 guys." If this person has no criminal record then chances are he won't be named.
3 Any further info about meeting Todaro Jr in Florida. It's truly remarkable that the RCMP decided to release this information, I would have thought they'd do what they usually do and omit the person's identity "... went to Florida and was promoted by a Boss of Buffalo." Imagine the fucking arguments we'd be having then?
4 If he mentioned Falzone specifically. The article said Violi said the reconstitution happened in 2014, while Falzone was boss. He could have said that or it could be a case of information being added by the author. There's other examples such as whether or not he specifically said the majority of membership was currently Buffalo-based.
I reckon we won't get very far but it's still worth a shot.
Unless the funding has been cut severely, I would imagine the FBI is currently aware of the information that's come out. Given that it involves drugs, Bonanno LCN and international crime (US and Canada) they might be very interested. If Buffalo was reconstituted in 2014 then it explains why they were silent for so long, but within a few years of being active they are being noticed which coincides with the argument of criminal convictions equating to activity.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that Buffalo's stayed silent from 1998 until 2017 because they are criminal masterminds. But what comes with the 2014 Allegations is the possibility that this group was beefed up within a very short timeframe i.e. 15 or even 20 new members by 2017 to round out 30 by counting alive heads from the 2006 and 1997 charts. It's that or the FBI missed 5-10 members in 1997 and 2006 which I don't think is likely.
B., do you have any opinion on Buffalo's numbers throughout the eras from say 1960 to 2000? Was there a sharp decline or do you think they have members that evaded scrutiny into the 90's?