Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[eboli]

1 Do we have photos of any of these men?

2 What's the source on Rocco Luppino being captain?

3 Same for Sansanese and Bifulco alledgedly holding ranks, what's the sources?

1.) Yes, I found a few of them around the internet.
2.) Allegedly he's a captain according to this: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/sh ... falo-mafia
3.) Dunno, speculations most likely. Some of them date back to 2016 when Falzone passed away.

[Wiseguy]

The Los Angeles family was, by my definition, an active family during the 1990s. Yes they were small, and yes they were dying, but they were very much “active”. If Violi’s wiretap is anything to go by, then Buffalo is in the same boat as the Los Angeles family.

At what point, approximately, did the Los Angeles Mafia go from being active to inactive? Milano and Caruso were more “legitimate” than most mobsters, but they were still committing crimes under the banner of LCN? They were still inducting members for the furtherance of a criminal enterprise, right? Jimmy Caci was a career criminal operating under the flag of the Los Angeles Mafia, right?

Yet you characterise the Los Angeles Mafia’s operations during the 1990s as “last remnants going through the motions.” That, to me, implies that the induction of new members, promotions to administrative positions, adherence of LCN rules, is just something that happens on its own, even when a Mafia family is not “viable,” whatever that means. I would argue that multiple induction ceremonies, sitdowns, meetings with capos, “claiming” associates, operating rackets and kicking upstairs is a lot more than “going through the motions.” I would argue that the activity listed is evidence of an ongoing criminal enterprise. These LA mobsters we’re making a conceited effort to upkeep a criminal enterprise. And yes, the Los Angeles Mafia ended up dying out, and even if Violi’s statements are admissible of anything, then the Buffalo Mafia will likely suffer the same fate. But for now, if the Buffalo Mafia is operating in the same capacity as the 1990s LA Mafia, then they’re active as of 2017.

That begs the question at what point then do you consider a crime family finished? Because it seems, for some of you, as long as there are two made guys still breathing, there's still a family.

For the record, I guess the FBI was less than impressed because they were reported as close to writing the LA family off in 1992.

[Frank]

Joe Violi should not be included on the list of Buffalo members. There is no info saying he was made yet and to which Family

[Pogo The Clown]

1 Do we have photos of any of these men?

2 What's the source on Rocco Luppino being captain?

3 Same for Sansanese and Bifulco alledgedly holding ranks, what's the sources?

1.) Yes, I found a few of them around the internet.
2.) Allegedly he's a captain according to this: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/sh ... falo-mafia
3.) Dunno, speculations most likely. Some of them date back to 2016 when Falzone passed away.

Sansanese was listed as a Capo in the 1997 chart. Bifulco was indicted as a Capo in 2001 for setting a car on fire in an insurance scam. Haven't seen anything about them still holding those ranks in the present day.


Pogo

[gohnjotti]

The Los Angeles family was, by my definition, an active family during the 1990s. Yes they were small, and yes they were dying, but they were very much “active”. If Violi’s wiretap is anything to go by, then Buffalo is in the same boat as the Los Angeles family.

At what point, approximately, did the Los Angeles Mafia go from being active to inactive? Milano and Caruso were more “legitimate” than most mobsters, but they were still committing crimes under the banner of LCN? They were still inducting members for the furtherance of a criminal enterprise, right? Jimmy Caci was a career criminal operating under the flag of the Los Angeles Mafia, right?

Yet you characterise the Los Angeles Mafia’s operations during the 1990s as “last remnants going through the motions.” That, to me, implies that the induction of new members, promotions to administrative positions, adherence of LCN rules, is just something that happens on its own, even when a Mafia family is not “viable,” whatever that means. I would argue that multiple induction ceremonies, sitdowns, meetings with capos, “claiming” associates, operating rackets and kicking upstairs is a lot more than “going through the motions.” I would argue that the activity listed is evidence of an ongoing criminal enterprise. These LA mobsters we’re making a conceited effort to upkeep a criminal enterprise. And yes, the Los Angeles Mafia ended up dying out, and even if Violi’s statements are admissible of anything, then the Buffalo Mafia will likely suffer the same fate. But for now, if the Buffalo Mafia is operating in the same capacity as the 1990s LA Mafia, then they’re active as of 2017.

That begs the question at what point then do you consider a crime family finished? Because it seems, for some of you, as long as there are two made guys still breathing, there's still a family.

For the record, I guess the FBI was less than impressed because they were reported as close to writing the LA family off in 1992.

Two made guys breathing? That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about - for both 2017 Buffalo and 1990s LA - an ongoing criminal enterprise with a formal structure, new inductions, a chain of command, and crimes committed in furtherance of the criminal enterprise.

And, yes, I see your points. The LA Mafia was doomed to fail in the 1990s due to general attrition, a lot of members like Milano and Caruso being disenfranchised with crime, and an aging workforce. The Buffalo Mafia might be in the same boat. But we’re not arguing whether or not the Buffalo Mafia is a stable and successful ongoing criminal enterprise. We are arguing whether or not it is an ongoing criminal enterprise, period. Which, as evidence shows, it most likely is, even if the family is indeed doomed to fail, or is going to die out soon.

[Cheech]

The New Orleans thing was 25 years ago. So was the LA thing. That’s my point. If either happened today it would be news like this. I for sure thought buffalo was finished. Evidently not.

[Angelo Santino]

1 Do we have photos of any of these men?

2 What's the source on Rocco Luppino being captain?

3 Same for Sansanese and Bifulco alledgedly holding ranks, what's the sources?

1.) Yes, I found a few of them around the internet.
2.) Allegedly he's a captain according to this: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/sh ... falo-mafia
3.) Dunno, speculations most likely. Some of them date back to 2016 when Falzone passed away.

Says Falzone was the former boss who died in 2016.

If I expand on this chart beyond half-a-joke I'd like to source things. Great article.

[Pogo The Clown]

Two made guys breathing? That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about - for both 2017 Buffalo and 1990s LA - an ongoing criminal enterprise with a formal structure, new inductions, a chain of command, and crimes committed in furtherance of the criminal enterprise.

This criteria applied to New Orleans in the early 1990s, Rochester in 1999, Scranton in the 1990s and LA, Tampa and Pittsburgh in the early 2000s yet in each case the FBI considered those families defunct. You can still have LCN activity via a few members still involved with crime or some members with some nominal titles but at the end what you really have is just the remnants of the organization.


Pogo

[Pogo The Clown]

1 Do we have photos of any of these men?

2 What's the source on Rocco Luppino being captain?

3 Same for Sansanese and Bifulco alledgedly holding ranks, what's the sources?

1.) Yes, I found a few of them around the internet.
2.) Allegedly he's a captain according to this: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/sh ... falo-mafia
3.) Dunno, speculations most likely. Some of them date back to 2016 when Falzone passed away.

Says Falzone was the former boss who died in 2016.

If I expand on this chart beyond half-a-joke I'd like to source things. Great article.

What I posted earlier.


The article also raising some red flags for me. Like listing Leonard Falzone as having been the Boss. That has only ever appeared on the forums and was never mentioned once in the local Buffalo article about his death. In fact the article made it sound like he was inactive when he died. The 2017 article about Buffalo talked about Falzone and quoted the FBI and local LE and made no mention of him having been the Boss either. Also in the 2006 chart he is listed as a Soldier. It also uses "The Calzone" nickname for Falzone which first appeared in a ScottB piece (raising red flags for me right off the bat) and has never been used in the few articles I have seen On him. The 2006 chart also doesn't have that as his nickname either.


Pogo

[Cheech]

Two made guys breathing? That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about - for both 2017 Buffalo and 1990s LA - an ongoing criminal enterprise with a formal structure, new inductions, a chain of command, and crimes committed in furtherance of the criminal enterprise.

This criteria applied to New Orleans in the early 1990s, Rochester in 1999, Scranton in the 1990s and LA, Tampa and Pittsburgh in the early 2000s yet in each case the FBI considered those families defunct. You can still have LCN activity via a few members still involved with crime or some members with some nominal titles but at the end what you really have is just the remnants of the organization.


Pogo

Ya but the Underboss says their is 30 members. What do u make of that?

And for the record idgaf about buffalo or of it has a mafia family but the underboss is on tape saying 30. Idk man. What else do u need to know?

[Cheech]

In my opinion B. and Gohn have summed it up pretty well

[gohnjotti]

Two made guys breathing? That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about - for both 2017 Buffalo and 1990s LA - an ongoing criminal enterprise with a formal structure, new inductions, a chain of command, and crimes committed in furtherance of the criminal enterprise.

This criteria applied to New Orleans in the early 1990s, Rochester in 1999, Scranton in the 1990s and LA, Tampa and Pittsburgh in the early 2000s yet in each case the FBI considered those families defunct. You can still have LCN activity via a few members still involved with crime or some members with some nominal titles but at the end what you really have is just the remnants of the organization.


Pogo

So is there a spectrum of “viability,” or is it a case of a family being viable or not viable? For example, would you consider 1990s LA to be “semi-viable”?

[Angelo Santino]

Two made guys breathing? That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about - for both 2017 Buffalo and 1990s LA - an ongoing criminal enterprise with a formal structure, new inductions, a chain of command, and crimes committed in furtherance of the criminal enterprise.

This criteria applied to New Orleans in the early 1990s, Rochester in 1999, Scranton in the 1990s and LA, Tampa and Pittsburgh in the early 2000s yet in each case the FBI considered those families defunct. You can still have LCN activity via a few members still involved with crime or some members with some nominal titles but at the end what you really have is just the remnants of the organization.


Pogo

I'm reminded of Joey Merlino's New England crew where they made 4-6 Bostonians and named a captain. Such expansion is relatively rare, more existing mafia crews have heritage (Genovese/Gambino crews) or are recently made up of preexisting members (Colombos/Bonannos). Not saying that's what occuring in Buffalo but we can't rule it out that something happened in 2014, some kind of revitalization, as per what has surfaced. Maybe even the Bonannos encouraged it. If- per the article- some kind of regeneration occurred in 2014, they made it less than 3 years before being noticed by law enforcement. Perhaps it was more dormant 1997-2014 than it is now. The FBI is not going to do a press release and say they were wrong and are investigating it now, but I'm sure they are investigating.

LA and Buffalo are comparable, but one thing I'd like to state is that LA was never a powerhouse, their foundations were weak from the very beginning. Even their Babe Ruth in Jack Dragna can not compare with Steve Magaddino in terms of their assets, background, national reputation and longevity. New Orleans on the other hand, was like Buffalo, a former powerhouse, NO early on but their 'first family' status rendered them exempt from Commission rulings. I'd put Carlos Marcello and Magaddino in the same room. Lastly, Buffalo's close proximity to Canada puts them in a situation that NO and LA never had the chance to capitalize on- a local country with very lax OC laws (LA never expanded their TJ rackets). So while they doesn't definitively prove anything it does show the potential for such a revitalization which other defunct groups don't have.

If I was Joe Todaro today I'd shit myself and seriously take a look at what I'm involved in and if the odds are worth federal prison time, asset forfeiture and the end of the family's (lower case f) upstanding local reputation. I know next to nothing about the man other than that he heads a local pizza chain with 2 locations but haven't heard of him ever before facing legal consequences. He can forget about Florida.

[Wiseguy]

Two made guys breathing? That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about - for both 2017 Buffalo and 1990s LA - an ongoing criminal enterprise with a formal structure, new inductions, a chain of command, and crimes committed in furtherance of the criminal enterprise.

And, yes, I see your points. The LA Mafia was doomed to fail in the 1990s due to general attrition, a lot of members like Milano and Caruso being disenfranchised with crime, and an aging workforce. The Buffalo Mafia might be in the same boat. But we’re not arguing whether or not the Buffalo Mafia is a stable and successful ongoing criminal enterprise. We are arguing whether or not it is an ongoing criminal enterprise, period. Which, as evidence shows, it most likely is, even if the family is indeed doomed to fail, or is going to die out soon.

You still haven't answered my question.

The New Orleans thing was 25 years ago. So was the LA thing. That’s my point. If either happened today it would be news like this. I for sure thought buffalo was finished. Evidently not.

The point is, if we saw similar things with those families that we're seeing with Buffalo now, and those families ended being defunct (as the FBI considered them) despite some residual activity; what's to say Buffalo isn't any different?

Of course, this question presupposes one goes with the criteria of whether the FBI still acknowledges a family or not. If they go by their own criteria, whatever that may be (yours seems to be there being something going on), then I can see arguments being made for a several families thought to be finished.

Ya but the Underboss says their is 30 members. What do u make of that?

And for the record idgaf about buffalo or of it has a mafia family but the underboss is on tape saying 30. Idk man. What else do u need to know?

Given what we know about Buffalo, it appears it was an off-the-cuff comment and probably an exaggeration.

The feds had the family at 45 members in 1989. The Hamilton PD had it at 34 members in 1997. The feds had it at 23 members in 2006. At least 7 have died since then.

To get back up to 32 members (Todaro, Violi, and the "30 guys" he beat out for the underbosd position), at least 16 members would have had to be made between 2006 and 2019. Anyone who has been paying attention to trends, including the one shown above, should recognize how unlikely that is.

[Cheech]

Two made guys breathing? That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about - for both 2017 Buffalo and 1990s LA - an ongoing criminal enterprise with a formal structure, new inductions, a chain of command, and crimes committed in furtherance of the criminal enterprise.

And, yes, I see your points. The LA Mafia was doomed to fail in the 1990s due to general attrition, a lot of members like Milano and Caruso being disenfranchised with crime, and an aging workforce. The Buffalo Mafia might be in the same boat. But we’re not arguing whether or not the Buffalo Mafia is a stable and successful ongoing criminal enterprise. We are arguing whether or not it is an ongoing criminal enterprise, period. Which, as evidence shows, it most likely is, even if the family is indeed doomed to fail, or is going to die out soon.

You still haven't answered my question.

The New Orleans thing was 25 years ago. So was the LA thing. That’s my point. If either happened today it would be news like this. I for sure thought buffalo was finished. Evidently not.

The point is, if we saw similar things with those families that we're seeing with Buffalo now, and those families ended being defunct (as the FBI considered them) despite some residual activity; what's to say Buffalo isn't any different?

Of course, this question presupposes one goes with the criteria of whether the FBI still acknowledges a family or not. If they go by their own criteria, whatever that may be (yours seems to be there being something going on), then I can see arguments being made for a several families thought to be finished.

Ya but the Underboss says their is 30 members. What do u make of that?

And for the record idgaf about buffalo or of it has a mafia family but the underboss is on tape saying 30. Idk man. What else do u need to know?

Given what we know about Buffalo, it appears it was an off-the-cuff comment and probably an exaggeration.

The feds had the family at 45 members in 1989. The Hamilton PD had it at 34 members in 1997. The feds had it at 23 members in 2006. At least 7 have died since then.

To get back up to 32 members (Todaro, Violi, and the "30 guys" he beat out for the underbosd position), at least 16 members would have had to be made between 2006 and 2019. Anyone who has been paying attention to trends, including the one shown above, should recognize how unlikely that is.

LMAO. Ok