Homerthedog wrote:That is true. But power, even in the mob, can't be measured in raw numbers. Logistically it would have been difficult to wage a war against Montreal. Also Montreal's numbers can include the wealth and firepower of numerous allies in North America and Europe. I doubt anybody would have supported any effort by the bonannos that would lead to a disruption of the Rizzuto drug network.
I think that drug network, especially nowadays, is way overblown. The Bonannos were never dependent on the Rizzutos for drugs. There were various networks, and Montreal was just one of those instruments. In the end all that matters is the Mafia hierarchy and it's rules and politics that keep it together. Nobody is going to wage war with each other without a non-coordinated political effort, which includes a lot of okay's. The only real wars were those of the 1930s New York and the 1980s Sicily and even those were just internal power struggles.
The allies the Rizzutos had would still obey to the rules and stay away from interfering. The Rizzutos were ultimately subservient to the Bonannos. When Montagna decided to install a new regime, nobody interfered because they knew it was an internal family matter. I think nobody saw it coming that a French Canadian would have the balls to kill a member of the mob. But he has been paying the price for it and is now isolated.
You JUST saw the transcripts from Chapos trial saying they were doing 3 mil a day in Montreal....
Renaud had the Hells as Canadas top criminal group, based on what, White collar racketeering?
You really believe a guy like Greg Wooley is more loyal to the " Bonnano family" in NY then the Rizzuto clan of Montreal? Seriously???? This is a real question here....
Even though I started this thread I learned a lot. Of course the really interesting story, in my humble opinion, is what's happened up there since Vito became a guest of Uncle Sam. I guess I need to understand more about the Greater Toronto Area guys as well.
The problem is that no tapes, cooperators, or other inside sources have revealed to us that the structure is actually different in Montreal, or if it is, then how it is. A decina can be anything from a captain with no crew, to a small army. It's anyone's guess how many soldiers were in the Carmine Galante crew but it must have been huge. When the Montreal crew split off, they were an above average sized decina with the influence of a small family due to being the lone Cosa Nostra group in the city. Having support from the Bonannos in NYC at the time the Montreal crew was formed gave them a major leg up; maybe that was the motivation for Cotroni's loyalty to Joe Bonanno through most of the war.
An FBI report from the mid-1960s stated that the Cotronis were being given more freedom in administrating their own affairs but would still belong to the Bonanno family and around this period were represented at a meeting in NYC by Frank LaBruzzo. They would fall in with the new regime by 1968 or soon after. By the early 1970s Montreal was reported to be in line with the Evola regime and their NYC liaisons were captains Rastelli and Marangello, two of the top upcoming powers in the family. Montreal would also participate in politics of the time, voting for Rastelli as boss, who would make Marangello underboss.
So Montreal would have been immediately closer to the Bonannos by 1974 given that their former liaisons were now the top bosses. Rastelli's imprisonment may have brought Montreal even closer to NYC with their former captain Galante gaining influence. Galante was not only the former captain of some still-active Montreal members, but he was a Joe Bonanno loyalist like Cotroni who maintained contact with Bonanno in Arizona. Bonanno also kept business contacts in Montreal.
The rise of the Rizzutos in the late 1970s wasn't an example of them pulling away from the Bonannos, but most likely the result of them being closer than they had in many years. The boss, defacto boss, and underboss all had ties to Montreal and the new NYC "zip" faction would become close to Montreal as well. Montreal was also likely inducting new members for the first time in many years after having followed the rules earlier in the 1970s when Violi was told the books were still closed and Montreal couldn't induct new members. Any new inductees obviously became Bonanno members. All of this would have strengthened ties between Montreal and the family in NYC, though this time with a new Sicilian faction in power.
Gerlando Sciascia was not only considered fit to head the Montreal crew, but also to aide the NYC leadership in the 1980s and serve on the captain panel in the 90s. He served as a representative of the Bonanno family regarding mafia activities within the family and in meetings with leaders of other families, all while offering some level of direction to Montreal, though obviously his allies there were running the daily operations. This new leading Sicilian faction in Montreal/NYC became key facilitators in the international drug trade and a large degree of their influence is through the drug business. However, this was not new to the Montreal leadership.
At the time the Cotronis were still Galante soldiers, they were already among the most important mafia members in the international drug trade. The idea of the Bonanno Montreal crew being autonomous A-list drug traffickers with deep influence in Canada seems to have been the norm for them regardless of whether it was the Cotronis or Rizzutos in charge. The main difference is the even more Sicilian-centric network the Cattolica Eraclea group was part of, which is a reflection of what was going on throughout the US and Sicily at the time.
A flow chart based on business relationships, social contacts, and criminal activity for the Cotroni era wouldn't look much different from the Rizzutos in terms of structure and it would probably be a more accurate depiction of what happens on the street. This chart would probably include some non-Italians and other high-placed associates in equal or greater standing to the made members. However, a chart based on their status as mafia members would show a captain, maybe an acting captain, and a bunch of soldiers. Not as exciting as being able to name a boss, underboss, and consig with a bunch of capos underneath them, but if these guys were introduced to other mafia members, which did happen and probably still does, they would be introduced as captains and soldiers in the Bonanno family. Unless they transferred membership to another Cosa Nostra family or have been officially recognized as a new Cosa Nostra family, neither of which have been reported.
Project Colisee showed that there was some distribution of money/power among a "ruling faction" in Montreal, but did any tapes reveal anything out of the ordinary? These sorts of partnerships and co-management of illegal businesses doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary, even for a crew, but I don't know what all was recorded or discovered about the set-up.
I feel like you discount South America, the time Rizzuto spent in Venezuela, and the connections to Brazil.
To me, THATS where the drug connects came from, not an association with the NY Bonnanos...
Let me ask this... do you think the Caruanas operations were funded with Bonnano money?
Like the ranches they bought, the powdered milk companies, the fronts, all that business in South America... ( this was going on while Galante was all the way in NY, right?)
That's perfect if you want a chart about the whole network they're a part of. No denying who and what they were involved in around the world. It just doesn't help if someone wants to figure out the crew succession and identify made members.
Homerthedog wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:00 pm
That is true. But power, even in the mob, can't be measured in raw numbers. Logistically it would have been difficult to wage a war against Montreal. Also Montreal's numbers can include the wealth and firepower of numerous allies in North America and Europe. I doubt anybody would have supported any effort by the bonannos that would lead to a disruption of the Rizzuto drug network.
in the mob usually the families with more made members are the strongest, the rizzuto's were a crew of the bonannos although they are more involved in drugs and have several allies in montreal (hells, haitians, etc.) they were weaker than bonanno's whose boss was also a member of ny commission... anyway the fact that makes the rizzuto very powerful is that the canadian minister alfonso gagliano was a member of that crew more than drug trafficking, they were strongly politically involved, constructions, public works, waste disposal etc.
Homerthedog wrote:That is true. But power, even in the mob, can't be measured in raw numbers. Logistically it would have been difficult to wage a war against Montreal. Also Montreal's numbers can include the wealth and firepower of numerous allies in North America and Europe. I doubt anybody would have supported any effort by the bonannos that would lead to a disruption of the Rizzuto drug network.
I think that drug network, especially nowadays, is way overblown. The Bonannos were never dependent on the Rizzutos for drugs. There were various networks, and Montreal was just one of those instruments. In the end all that matters is the Mafia hierarchy and it's rules and politics that keep it together. Nobody is going to wage war with each other without a non-coordinated political effort, which includes a lot of okay's. The only real wars were those of the 1930s New York and the 1980s Sicily and even those were just internal power struggles.
The allies the Rizzutos had would still obey to the rules and stay away from interfering. The Rizzutos were ultimately subservient to the Bonannos. When Montagna decided to install a new regime, nobody interfered because they knew it was an internal family matter. I think nobody saw it coming that a French Canadian would have the balls to kill a member of the mob. But he has been paying the price for it and is now isolated.
You JUST saw the transcripts from Chapos trial saying they were doing 3 mil a day in Montreal....
Renaud had the Hells as Canadas top criminal group, based on what, White collar racketeering?
You really believe a guy like Greg Wooley is more loyal to the " Bonnano family" in NY then the Rizzuto clan of Montreal? Seriously???? This is a real question here....
I believe it was alleged by a former DEA agent the Sinaloa cartel was making nearly $3 million a day in Canada total, not just in Montreal.
You are correct, my mistake.... 3 million a day from Canada in total....
It also says Sinaloa was basically partners with the Wolfpack; Iranian gangs, with the Hells handling Distribution... I wonder where Tony Suzuki comes in?
