Mafia recruits

[Rat]

IMO it seems like there is less rats nowadays than there was 20, 30 years ago. I'm sure most the guys still in it today are more accepting/prepared to get a life sentence than the older generation.

[gohnjotti]

IMO it seems like there is less rats nowadays than there was 20, 30 years ago. I'm sure most the guys still in it today are more accepting/prepared to get a life sentence than the older generation.

Less rats today than 1989? Don’t think so. 1989 was still a year when ratting was pretty taboo, although it would become a lot more popular in the next few years.
1999, I see your point but I disagree with your reason why. If there were more rats in 1999, there were far more busts, indictments, murders conspiracies. The Mafia was at its lowest point, since 9/11 hadn’t hit yet and it seemed there would be no end to the FBI’s onslaught. There was definitely a lot more FBI pressure than today, and also a lot of internal infighting which compelled guys to flip.

I don’t think you can compare the amount of rats today than to the amount 20 years ago for that reason alone, but even when you look at the cases today, guys are flipping over a lot less. You had Colombo acting capo Paul Bevacqua wire up over an assault charge (that he didn’t even take part in), Colombo capo Reynold Maragni over extortion and marijuana dealing, Peter Lovaglio flipping over god knows what, that recent Shark guy in the Bonannos. Previously, it generally took a murder charge to convince a guy to flip.

[maxiestern11]

We’ll said Gohn

[maxiestern11]

Well said Gohn

[bert]

IMO it seems like there is less rats nowadays than there was 20, 30 years ago. I'm sure most the guys still in it today are more accepting/prepared to get a life sentence than the older generation.

Less rats today than 1989? Don’t think so. 1989 was still a year when ratting was pretty taboo, although it would become a lot more popular in the next few years.
1999, I see your point but I disagree with your reason why. If there were more rats in 1999, there were far more busts, indictments, murders conspiracies. The Mafia was at its lowest point, since 9/11 hadn’t hit yet and it seemed there would be no end to the FBI’s onslaught. There was definitely a lot more FBI pressure than today, and also a lot of internal infighting which compelled guys to flip.

I don’t think you can compare the amount of rats today than to the amount 20 years ago for that reason alone, but even when you look at the cases today, guys are flipping over a lot less. You had Colombo acting capo Paul Bevacqua wire up over an assault charge (that he didn’t even take part in), Colombo capo Reynold Maragni over extortion and marijuana dealing, Peter Lovaglio flipping over god knows what, that recent Shark guy in the Bonannos. Previously, it generally took a murder charge to convince a guy to flip.

Guys started ratting the 1980's cause they were weaker than predecessors, and they rat more now because each generation gets weaker.

[Lupara]

IMO it seems like there is less rats nowadays than there was 20, 30 years ago. I'm sure most the guys still in it today are more accepting/prepared to get a life sentence than the older generation.

Less rats today than 1989? Don’t think so. 1989 was still a year when ratting was pretty taboo, although it would become a lot more popular in the next few years.
1999, I see your point but I disagree with your reason why. If there were more rats in 1999, there were far more busts, indictments, murders conspiracies. The Mafia was at its lowest point, since 9/11 hadn’t hit yet and it seemed there would be no end to the FBI’s onslaught. There was definitely a lot more FBI pressure than today, and also a lot of internal infighting which compelled guys to flip.

I don’t think you can compare the amount of rats today than to the amount 20 years ago for that reason alone, but even when you look at the cases today, guys are flipping over a lot less. You had Colombo acting capo Paul Bevacqua wire up over an assault charge (that he didn’t even take part in), Colombo capo Reynold Maragni over extortion and marijuana dealing, Peter Lovaglio flipping over god knows what, that recent Shark guy in the Bonannos. Previously, it generally took a murder charge to convince a guy to flip.

Guys started ratting the 1980's cause they were weaker than predecessors, and they rat more now because each generation gets weaker.

I don't think that's true. Rats became more abundent once LE stepped up their efforts in the 80s. There were already lots of informants (rats) before the 80s.

[eboli]

They mainly rat more now because there is less incentive to honor the code of silence. There's no punishment for being one these days, because lcn doesn't want to bring more attention to itself. On top of that there's less money going around and most guys in "the life" are a lot poorer than their counterparts decades ago. Why would you want to spend decades in prison if you're a brokester? Jerry Balzano was making 60-70k a year at the time of his road rage incident a couple of years back. That's chump change and I doubt the majority of them fare a lot better. That one Colombo guy was shaking a tattoo parlor for 250 bucks a week. Fat Larry was working as a used car salesman to pay the bills while on supervised release. If you're a low level mobster you're probably going to do better in witsec working an honest job without the additional stress of getting in trouble.

[bert]

IMO it seems like there is less rats nowadays than there was 20, 30 years ago. I'm sure most the guys still in it today are more accepting/prepared to get a life sentence than the older generation.

Less rats today than 1989? Don’t think so. 1989 was still a year when ratting was pretty taboo, although it would become a lot more popular in the next few years.
1999, I see your point but I disagree with your reason why. If there were more rats in 1999, there were far more busts, indictments, murders conspiracies. The Mafia was at its lowest point, since 9/11 hadn’t hit yet and it seemed there would be no end to the FBI’s onslaught. There was definitely a lot more FBI pressure than today, and also a lot of internal infighting which compelled guys to flip.

I don’t think you can compare the amount of rats today than to the amount 20 years ago for that reason alone, but even when you look at the cases today, guys are flipping over a lot less. You had Colombo acting capo Paul Bevacqua wire up over an assault charge (that he didn’t even take part in), Colombo capo Reynold Maragni over extortion and marijuana dealing, Peter Lovaglio flipping over god knows what, that recent Shark guy in the Bonannos. Previously, it generally took a murder charge to convince a guy to flip.

Guys started ratting the 1980's cause they were weaker than predecessors, and they rat more now because each generation gets weaker.

I don't think that's true. Rats became more abundent once LE stepped up their efforts in the 80s. There were already lots of informants (rats) before the 80s.

Lupara:
"I don't think that's true. Rats became more abundent once LE stepped up their efforts in the 80s. There were already lots of informants (rats) before the 80s."

I still disagree Lupara, they had a lot of pressure in the period of 1957-1979, tons of it. They kidnapped Carlos Marcello once, they put so much pressure on Sam Giancana that he sued and won, and they were going to mafia members houses over and over trying to talk to them. They were also finding out who came here as infants or pre school kids and trying to deport them. That's a lot of pressure. Most rats were low lever crooks and small time thieves from the areas they operated in, or fringe associates.
Vito Genovese did a ton of time, so did a lot of soldiers and associates. Even the average street criminals, non OC affiliated, had a lower rate of rats. Inmates would get stabbed in prison be dying, yet refuse to name who stabbed them. We can't compare the eras, but thanks for at least letting me see one notice in my notification box that was not from the "Martin Luther King was a pervert" thread.

[500YearReign]

There have been more made member informants than have been publicly revealed since the 50s, 60s, 70s... some of these guys are active members and still informing hence the lack of publication. Same goes for the 80s to the nineties and up to the present day.

I wouldn't be surprised if a full one third of the made members are informing secretly as an insurance policy. They make no testify agreements which allows them to further infiltrate the upper ranks.

If I was in the streets today and a member of a family, I would be incredibly uncomfortable talking to anyone let alone doing business with them. Knowing full well that anyone from a boss to an underboss and right down the line could potentially be informing on me or flip at some later date.

There genuinely seems to be absolutely zero upside to membership or association. It does not appear to ever have an upside in the recent three decades and certainly the future fares much worse.

This is coming from someone who has been very close to ranks from the top to the bottom of several families.

[Rat]

This is coming from someone who has been very close to ranks from the top to the bottom of several families.

I was reading along and then you lost me. Seems like everyone on this site is somehow connected to someone, maybe you should all move to New York and start the 6th Family since theres so many.

[Lupara]

This is coming from someone who has been very close to ranks from the top to the bottom of several families.

I was reading along and then you lost me. Seems like everyone on this site is somehow connected to someone, maybe you should all move to New York and start the 6th Family since theres so many.

My uncle in Montreal, who is upper-echelon going back to the 60s and related to a cousin of Vito Rizzuto's wife's sister, told me that they are the Sixth Family. He told me that Vito Rizzuto told his wife, who told her sister, who told her cousin, who told my uncle, that Rizzuto told New York to go fuck themselves and that was that. He also told me Montagna was a light-weight flunky and that the Bonannos lost half their members during a making ceremony. Apparantly there was a gas leak in the basement that caused an explosion during the ritual. Not even Capeci knows about this.

[scagghiuni]

I still disagree Lupara, they had a lot of pressure in the period of 1957-1979, tons of it.

aside vito genovese all the other bosses were free and virtually untouchable for decades, carlo gambino, joe colombo, joe bonanno, tommy lucchese etc. at that time the pressure of le on the mob in the states was like today in canada, a joke

[Pogo The Clown]

For the very top guys yes but a lot of the low and even mid level guys were in and out of prison during that time. Just about all the guys who came up during the 60s and 70s did time at one time or another.


Pogo

[Lupara]

For the very top guys yes but a lot of the low and even mid level guys were in and out of prison during that time. Just about all the guys who came up during the 60s and 70s did time at one time or another.


Pogo

But where the sentences the same as today? I don't think it's a coincidence that more guys flipped after RICO and the mob became the FBI's priority in 1975-2000.

[richy67]

Suppose people are always going to say new generation isnt as good as the last, but im sure thr guys on the street arent walking around going aw were not as good etc, im sure the guys out there will be pretty ready and dangerous. Could be argued as well I suppose by the younger guys that the generation before them are the ones that ruined lcn to begin with!