Mafia recruits

[Wiseguy]

It has been weak in new york for a long time, the prosecutors and news groups make it seem big to net profits off it, and for political gain. They are still around, but nothing compared to the say, the 1940's or to other current groups.

Weak relative to what?

It's peak? The Mob as a whole probably was at its peak in the 1950s. So, if we keep using their peak as the bar of comparison, the mob has been in decline for 60 years.

If law enforcement was only concerned with building up the mob for political gain, the feds wouldn't be downsizing their OC squads.

And while you won't get an argument from me regarding anywhere else, I'd maintain the LCN is still the strongest crime group in the extended New York metropolitan area. There really isn't a single other group that you could make that argument about.

Among the New York 5, correct me if I'm wrong, it seems that the Genovese's have had the least amount of made guys who were informants. They seem to be the last hold outs of the older tradition as far as secrecy and organization. I wonder what makes them a little different?

For one, I think they've benefited from being on top since the beginning. They always had the deepest bench, as one FBI agent said, and success breeds success.

A former wiseguy turned rat can walk back into his old neighborhood without a problem. Business owners aren’t intimidated anymore to pay protection money to the Mob cause they just run straight to the cops. These guys are monitored all the time the F.B.I. Is a step ahead
Especially with all these new technology. A wiseguy today lives off past history with names such as Gambino, Genovese, Lucchese etc. atleast back then everything was firmly intact

Extortion is still one of the mob's main rackets and indictments over the past 20 years have shown as much.

Because of so many less solid options for careers years back, many Italians went into the rackets as a fast and solid way to make big money and advance themselves and their families. Many guys were sharp, smart and innovative individuals who in today’s world could/would easily rise to captains of industry. Despite a formal education these were no dummies. They were very capable in every respect, as clearly evidenced by what they accomplished (making LCN what it was, a second government within a government). There were great profits and oppurtunities with minimal risk..... today those same type of capable men generally do NOT go into the rackets because common sense dictates the odds are way stacked against them. Generally small
Profits for huge risk and penalties. The cream of the Crop so to speak choose college and legitimate advancement. Typically mob guys today scrap the bottom of the barrel to find recruits. Low quality dummies, cafone, who don’t have a clue about what “The Life”
Was/is really about seek out street life. The Rico statue, conspiracy laws and dragonian penalties make a career in the mob a losing proposition. That’s not to say there are not fella’s making money that are sharp. But in general, percentage wise the quality guys; the Profaci’s Luciano’s frank Costello’s are not around today. Each year the life breaks down a little bit more. Italian heritage is being diluted, in life in general and the mob in particular. Jerkoffs for the most part. With little real balls, short on brains, are attracted to the life now...... it’s just the way it is. And it’s ot changing any time soon. Just my two cents

Yes, there's been an attrition of quality as well as quantity. You guys keep saying this stuff like it's news.

I think it's pretty dumb to act like the modern mob is small and relatively weak compared to other crime groups. Other than street gangs the only groups in New York with the numbers or power of the mob is the cartels and even then these groups mainly don't cross the same circles outside of drugs. It may not be the 1950s-70s but these groups have proved resilient.

Just because the mob isn't cracking heads in the streets or extorting shop owners doesn't mean they aren't out there making money. The mob is out there, just in a different form. It's more Wolf of Wall Street than Goodfellas nowadays. The numbers are still there and if you check up on this site news come out about the NY mob about every week in terms of various arrests/indictments.

As I said above, in the extended New York metropolitan area the LCN is the group the best argument can be made for being the strongest.

The players in narcotics in the area are too diverse for one group to be considered strongest strongest solely because of their position in the drug trade.

[NinoFromNYC2]

Shakedowns aren’t like they use to be people paid through fear and intimidation shopkeepers didn’t know better than because LCN was so powerful there was so much violence and a lot of activity going on in the community and it was just a different time. In Sicily there’s AddioPizzo which is an Anti Mafia Organization that fights the Mafia. Shopkeepers refuse to pay cause they go straight to the cops here in the USA and in Sicily

[bert]

bert wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 3:38 pm
It has been weak in new york for a long time, the prosecutors and news groups make it seem big to net profits off it, and for political gain. They are still around, but nothing compared to the say, the 1940's or to other current groups.
Weak relative to what?

Wiseguy's reply:
"It's peak? The Mob as a whole probably was at its peak in the 1950s. So, if we keep using their peak as the bar of comparison, the mob has been in decline for 60 years.

If law enforcement was only concerned with building up the mob for political gain, the feds wouldn't be downsizing their OC squads.

And while you won't get an argument from me regarding anywhere else, I'd maintain the LCN is still the strongest crime group in the extended New York metropolitan area. There really isn't a single other group that you could make that argument about.



They are way weaker than the 1940's, or 50's. Less was known of them then, the members were tougher, and or higher quality. Law enforcement wants funding and is political, and has become a bunch of bureaucrats. The Columbians, Mexicans, Chinese, and other gangs have surpassed them long ago.

[NinoFromNYC2]

In my opinion there not going anywhere there never gonna come back. They can try and bring back the 50’s but it’s not gonna happen. Especially not in 2019 it won’t

[Wiseguy]

Shakedowns aren’t like they use to be people paid through fear and intimidation shopkeepers didn’t know better than because LCN was so powerful there was so much violence and a lot of activity going on in the community and it was just a different time. In Sicily there’s AddioPizzo which is an Anti Mafia Organization that fights the Mafia. Shopkeepers refuse to pay cause they go straight to the cops here in the USA and in Sicily

Addiopizzo only has a fraction of businesses pledging not to pay the pizza. Most businesses in and around Palermo still pay, from what I understand.

You can look at the indictments over the past 20 years in New York and see example after example of the mob being involved in extortion.

They are way weaker than the 1940's, or 50's. Less was known of them then, the members were tougher, and or higher quality.

Agreed.

Law enforcement wants funding and is political, and has become a bunch of bureaucrats.

You sound like Dan.

The Columbians, Mexicans, Chinese, and other gangs have surpassed them long ago.

In New York? How? Care to expound or are you going to just keep making baseless statements?

[NinoFromNYC2]

That’s why the Sicilian Mafia is selling coffee to businesses acting as salesmen because of the pizzo is too risky.

[maxiestern11]

If you fella’s read my thread you’ll see what I’m saying. I’ve listed some of the most iconic figures in OC in the last 100 years. Very few if any of the guys listed did and real time, if a day! Though they were active from soup to nuts for 40-50 yrs smuggling Babania, booking, etc.?
What does that tell you? The cops were paid off, even when caught the penalties were minimal. Hell, for the first 50-60 years LE Didn’t even know they existed..... that could never happen today. It’s a different world! It’s still there but the life is NOT the same, not even close. Plus the membership has changed a lot. Not the same caliber guy in my opinion. Today you’ve still got plenty of good guys but not nearly the quantity as yesteryear.

[maxiestern11]

In addition to the NY/NJ lists above, when you consider the additional 100-150 + federally documented reputed "members" plus the virtually limitless
number of "associates" throughout the entire country, its clear to see that "the life" is in sad shape to say the least. Even decades ago there were always rats, stool pidgeons, informants, however you want to refer to them. But never ever near the numbers there are today. They were far and few between proportionately speaking. Why? What happened? ......In my humble opinion there are several reasons. First and foremost, the draconian laws on the books today (Rico, etc.) make for unprecedented sentences. A gambling pinch that years ago would have resulted in a small fine or tops 30 days to 1 year max bit, today calls for 5 years or worse. A usury pinch which years ago was a misdemeanor, today is a big pinch. Even a narcotics arrest, say heroin, which would have brought a typical 6 month - tops 5 year term brings (unless you were a serious repeat offender), 10 years to 50 years like blinking your eye. Next, the entire culture and mentality has changed. Years ago, guys were raised with much more respect for family, authority, tradition, and an overall feeling of "honor", which was the backbone of this thing. Also, growing up in the old traditional neighborhood strongholds, which gave rise and reinforced a strong sense of "togetherness", loyalty, and cohesiveness because everyone knew each others dads, moms, grandparents, siblings, cousins, etc., for generations, gave a sense of responsibility if you will, to "honor" each other. They were one step closer to the "old" traditions of Sicily/Italy and learned at the feet of the originals. Very few would ever consider "ratting" out. To do so, would bring such dishonor to themselves, their family name, their family members and even their associates that it was almost a faith worse than death. (of course they're were exceptions, the Santantonio's, Attardi's, etc), but it was rare. Next, in large part, NO respect for each other. Today, many guys in the big seat know they're time at the boss helm is limited because of getting pinched, or shuffling around. So they rob as much as they can, often from other good guys, which breeds disharmony, thereby weakening the overall structure and loyalty of things. Next, today many if not most of the guys who go into this are there solely for money. And when the "shoelaces" get tightened, and things don't look so rosy anymore they jump ship to team America. Years ago, of course guys looked to score, but it was more of a complete lifestyle that they lived, day in, day out. Again many, if not most, sought out that life because of the what the life represented to them, the great "honor" of it, not just the money per se. Makes a big difference when your in it for the long haul (cause this is who you are), as opposed to the money train.

Don't get me wrong, they're are still many very good guys in this life. But they are very typically many of the guys you'll never read about. Low key guys, who command much respect for having survived for so long. Some very wealthy, some maybe not so much, but who do their thing and go about their business without fanfare and notoriety. Maybe they have been pinched in the past, but they don't flash, they stay the course, and only associate with like minded individuals. Old friends if you will. They typically have no use for the younger guys, cause they don't know them, their pedigree, and don't care to.

Anyway, this post became way longer than originally intended. Lol......just my humble opinion on things. I welcome any additions or thoughts on what I have posted.

NOTE: this was from one of my earlier posts. I think it speak to the subject being discussed.

[bert]

It is not baseless to say the Columbians and Mexicans, and Chinese have surpassed the Mafia big time in New York. Look at the arrests, the demographics, the amount of crime and number of members they have. Combine it with them being ignored a lot, and the lack of enforcement against them. They passed the mafia back in the 1980's, people know it but the FBI and media tend to ignore it and report what people like you enjoy hearing, rather than the truth.

[NinoFromNYC2]

The Mob got too much into the public eye and it’s a brand that sells. Back then people heard about it but it wasn’t as known as it is today. It got noticed and the secrets came out due to Appalachian and Valachin and even during that era they were still powerful. As the years went on it kept changing

[NinoFromNYC2]

It’s funny cause whenever they nab a wiseguy or a crime family it’s a big thing and it’s front page of the newspapers. When it’s got to do with a low level drug dealer or street gang it’s not as important

[SonnyBlackstein]

It is not baseless to say the Columbians and Mexicans, and Chinese have surpassed the Mafia big time in New York. Look at the arrests, the demographics, the amount of crime and number of members they have. Combine it with them being ignored a lot, and the lack of enforcement against them. They passed the mafia back in the 1980's, people know it but the FBI and media tend to ignore it and report what people like you enjoy hearing, rather than the truth.

Always liked the line from Sammy Gravano’s father “they’re bad guys. But they’re our bad guys.”

Given the choice between Mexican/Jamaican/Honduran/Columbian gangs vs LCN?

I think we all know what we’d take.

[Rat]

It’s funny cause whenever they nab a wiseguy or a crime family it’s a big thing and it’s front page of the newspapers. When it’s got to do with a low level drug dealer or street gang it’s not as important

That’s because your average wise guy even with diminished quality is a lot more influential in terms of crime than some guy dealing coke on the corner

[Rat]

You can’t paint street gangs in the same light as wise guy. Even groups like MS13 that the government loves to talk about are very loosely organized and hold very little structure, they all play for their own team. The groups are neighborhood based where the mob is city wide based. Just because their is thousands of MS13 members doesn’t mean they work together, most ms13 groups fight with other ms13 groups.

You average gang member doesn’t last into his late 20s and is only involved in drug dealing

[Wiseguy]

It is not baseless to say the Columbians and Mexicans, and Chinese have surpassed the Mafia big time in New York. Look at the arrests, the demographics, the amount of crime and number of members they have. Combine it with them being ignored a lot, and the lack of enforcement against them. They passed the mafia back in the 1980's, people know it but the FBI and media tend to ignore it and report what people like you enjoy hearing, rather than the truth.

I look at all that info. You obviously don't.

The Chinese? They briefly took over a big part of the heroin trade in New York from about the mid-1980s to mid-1990s before the Colombians took over. But they mainly operate only within their own communities. The gangs (Ghost Shadows, Flying Dragons, etc.) that got a lot of press in the 1980s and 1990s were reduced to "roaming wolfpacks," according to law enforcement.

The Colombians? They have been the main supplier of cocaine and heroin in NYC for years, often going through Dominican middlemen. But drugs have pretty much been their sole enterprise and there are many other groups involved in different levels of the NY drug trade, including the Mexicans who have been making inroads over the past decade or so. And speaking of the Mexicans, they weren't really even a factor in New York in the 1980s so I'm not sure how they could have passed the Mafia up at that point.

Furthermore, you contadict yourself. You say look at the arrests the new groups have but then claim they are ignored by law enforcement. Which is it? None of these groups are ignored. If you actually paid attention to cases, rather than just the odd headline and talking out of your ass, you would know that the DEA makes routine busts against the Hispanic groups all the time. The FBI has squads in New York and other cities targeting Asian criminal enterprises.

The Mafia has been marginalized in the drug trade but by several groups. So I ask again, how have any one of these groups surpassed the mob and could be said to be the strongest in New York?