Sammy / Gotti

[Manhattan_]

What do you think ? Does Sammy Gravano testify against John Gotti if Gotti never gets caught on tape blaming Sammy for the DB and Louie Dibono murders ? Would Sammy have gone down with Gotti and LoCascio or would he still have rolled ? Do you think Gotti beats the case if not for his own big mouth ?

[500YearReign]

I may be in the minority here with my take on your question but truth be told I wholeheartedly believe Sammy would not have flipped. Rather than debate the reasoning I'll just leave it at that.

[bert]

Once he knew he was going to prison he was ready to cave in and rat his ass off. The tapes and whatever else he used as excuses were just that, excuses.

[SonnyBlackstein]

I may be in the minority here with my take on your question but truth be told I wholeheartedly believe Sammy would not have flipped. Rather than debate the reasoning I'll just leave it at that.

Actually agree.

Gotti ratted out Sammy.
A boss is meant to lead by example. And he sold Sammy down the river. Sammy just responded in kind.
Now agreed, ‘ratting’ to the G and betrayal by your boss when you’ve done nothing wrong yet get sold down the river for personal selfish reasons are two different branches. But they’re of the same tree. And make no mistake Gotti gave up the life when he ‘ratted’ out Sammy. What hope/faith/trust in the family, the life, honour, his rappresentante could he have? If his boss had no honour, proved it all false and self serving, how could anyone actually expect Sammy to hold true to provenly false beliefs?

I think the wool was removed from Sammy’s eyes thanks to John, and there’s zero reason to think Sammy would’ve behaved the same if things were different.

My vote is Sammy stands tall if still a believer. John only has himself to blame. There’s zero evidence to suggest differently.

[bert]

Sarcasm? ^^^^

[bronx]

he rats

[Pete]

I may be in the minority here with my take on your question but truth be told I wholeheartedly believe Sammy would not have flipped. Rather than debate the reasoning I'll just leave it at that.

Actually agree.

Gotti ratted out Sammy.
A boss is meant to lead by example. And he sold Sammy down the river. Sammy just responded in kind.
Now agreed, ‘ratting’ to the G and betrayal by your boss when you’ve done nothing wrong yet get sold down the river for personal selfish reasons are two different branches. But they’re of the same tree. And make no mistake Gotti gave up the life when he ‘ratted’ out Sammy. What hope/faith/trust in the family, the life, honour, his rappresentante could he have? If his boss had no honour, proved it all false and self serving, how could anyone actually expect Sammy to hold true to provenly false beliefs?

I think the wool was removed from Sammy’s eyes thanks to John, and there’s zero reason to think Sammy would’ve behaved the same if things were different.

My vote is Sammy stands tall if still a believer. John only has himself to blame. There’s zero evidence to suggest differently.

I’m gonna assume this post is a joke

[SonnyBlackstein]

Everyone loves to play Monday morning quarterback. But the evidence is that Sammy only flipped after hearing Gotti gave him up.
That is the only evidence. And the only evidentiary reason for his flipping.

Everything else is subjective opinion and holds little weight.

All due respect Bronx.

@ Pete: Assume what you want. Feel free to provide a cogent argument to support this position, evidence based if you will, your opinion is great for those interested, I don’t know you, so that excludes me.

[Manf]

Sammy flips. They all have excuses about how they would do a 100 years easy if not for this guy or that guy but in the end they flip because they don't want to do the time.

[500YearReign]

While Gotti partied and ego tripped... Sammy was really running the family and dealing with the other families because noone wanted to sustain John's nonsense.

[500YearReign]

Any hitter/shooter in the life knows, the old time rule is once a deed is done it is never spoken of even in jest. Gotti and his ilk were so full of themselves they broke that rule. Wheres the loyalty, the respect in that? Talking like a female dog behind your second in commands back. Incriminating him.

[gohnjotti]

I may be in the minority here with my take on your question but truth be told I wholeheartedly believe Sammy would not have flipped. Rather than debate the reasoning I'll just leave it at that.

Actually agree.

Gotti ratted out Sammy.
A boss is meant to lead by example. And he sold Sammy down the river. Sammy just responded in kind.
Now agreed, ‘ratting’ to the G and betrayal by your boss when you’ve done nothing wrong yet get sold down the river for personal selfish reasons are two different branches. But they’re of the same tree. And make no mistake Gotti gave up the life when he ‘ratted’ out Sammy. What hope/faith/trust in the family, the life, honour, his rappresentante could he have? If his boss had no honour, proved it all false and self serving, how could anyone actually expect Sammy to hold true to provenly false beliefs?

I think the wool was removed from Sammy’s eyes thanks to John, and there’s zero reason to think Sammy would’ve behaved the same if things were different.

My vote is Sammy stands tall if still a believer. John only has himself to blame. There’s zero evidence to suggest differently.

First time I've ever heard "provenly" used in a sentence. God bless.

[Manhattan_]

Keep in mind fellas that it is said that Sammy did NOT give up anyone from his crew..... I do not know how Sammy was able to NOT testify against his crew bc you are to divulge all crimes ? …. The tapes were so self incriminating that I think Gotti had no chance of beating this case even if he had Cutler by his side and Sammy does not testify …. One can only imagine what else Gotti was saying about Sammy ? I think the Feds used Sammy to embarrass Gotti at trial. Gotti's big mouth is the reason why this all happened the way it did.... Just think without the tapes how weak the case against Gotti would have been ! Sammy would have kept quiet and things would be much different.

[CabriniGreen]

A side point......

Does getting caught on a wire " red handed" so to speak, constitute a violation of omerta?

Or are you just looked at as a Chatty Patty?

It seemed in a case of say, Paolo Violi, it was seen as a violation, how about Tony Ducks, did the wire damage his standing that much in LCN?

Without the Gotti tapes, did they actually have Sammy cold?

[JeremyTheJew]

A side point......

Does getting caught on a wire " red handed" so to speak, constitute a violation of omerta?

Or are you just looked at as a Chatty Patty?

It seemed in a case of say, Paolo Violi, it was seen as a violation, how about Tony Ducks, did the wire damage his standing that much in LCN?

Without the Gotti tapes, did they actually have Sammy cold?

violating omerta is talking cooperating.
being a "chatty patty" on the phone would be a little different