SILENT PARTNERZ wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:33 am
The Jaguar tapes clearly have Ducks talking about killing
made members that were dealing drugs. Could it really be
possible that Ducks did not know how big time drug dealers
both Vic and Gas were?
Plus Tom Mix and Ducks himself have done time for drugs.
Were Amuso and Casso convicted in the case?
Regarding Santoro...you have to go in and see what the specifics are in the case. For example, what role did he have in the conspiracy? How much involved was he? Was he framed? Etc. And also, It appears that Tommy Luchese allowed his members into the drug business while most other bosses did not.
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:18 pm
I really think " dealing drugs" means literally like, street corner dealing. Like street retail... not the big time stuff....
No. It means what we know it to mean. A boss does not need to tell his members to not go and stand on the corner and sell drugs lol. The Mafia is not the kindergarten mob.
All that does is illustrate how little control they had over thier guys. When the envelopes come up, they dont ask where the money is coming from? How do they know what they were getting were correct amounts?
Again, Scarfo and the baseball thing..... you gotta touch base.....
SILENT PARTNERZ wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:33 am
The Jaguar tapes clearly have Ducks talking about killing
made members that were dealing drugs. Could it really be
possible that Ducks did not know how big time drug dealers
both Vic and Gas were?
Plus Tom Mix and Ducks himself have done time for drugs.
Were Amuso and Casso convicted in the case?
Regarding Santoro...you have to go in and see what the specifics are in the case. For example, what role did he have in the conspiracy? How much involved was he? Was he framed? Etc. And also, It appears that Tommy Luchese allowed his members into the drug business while most other bosses did not.
Cabrini, the rule most bosses impose is don´t deal with drugs. That means that no member is allowed to deal or to finance drug deals. In reality, that has nothing to do with morals but rather with safety for the boss or for the Family. Staying away from drug trafficking reduces the risk of hefty sentences and becoming a government witness. It´s somewhat ironic, because many bosses were themselves in the drug trade while they were just soldiers or captains. The temptation for many of these guys is overwhelming and the bosses basically can´t stop them. What is he supposed to do when finding out that half the members of his Family is in the drug trade?
Mighty, something you must keep in mind is (and it goes with rape convictions too) that while being just an associate, the individual can get away with. it. It´s when he becomes made, that he rules applys to him. Why would an associate be inclined to follow Cosa Nostra rules if he literally is not a member of the organization? When becoming made, the individual has gone through a process of training, a cleansing (for lack of a better word) to become a new man. That´s why they sometimes refer to becoming made as being baptized. I hope you understand what I´m trying to say here. Santoro was most likely not made in the 1940s but later.
You might like this excerpt...........tell me what you think......
“YOUNGER SOLDIERS were going crazy in the 1970s as they saw all this money flying in the streets for pot, acid, and cocaine, while they still had these old-fashioned bosses who would not let them deal in anything except heroin. The soldiers who were stuck with bosses like this were easy to rip off. If they lost their money in a drug deal, they couldn’t go whining to their bosses. So I’d approach these guys, tell them I could let them invest in a drug deal, and then make up some reason how I’d lost their investment. “Hey, bro. The cops arrested the courier at the airport. It’s all gone.”
I did this many, many times to wiseguys. Through Jack Buccino and his concert promotions, I found a print shop where they could make fake newspaper articles. I’d tell some guinea soldiers I was sending a guy to Mexico to buy ten kilos of cocaine. They’d give me their money, and I’d make a fake news clipping from a fake Texas newspaper about a guy busted at the border with cocaine in his car. This would be my proof. Even if they suspected I’d tricked them, they could not take it to the family.
Finally I ripped off some wiseguys who earned the name “wise.” They figured out how to get their money back from me. After I took their money to make a drug score that supposedly went bad, these guys got smart. They went to their capo and said I’d ripped them off by promising to sell them stolen bearer bonds that I never delivered. Everybody knew I had helped steal the bearer bonds from Merrill Lynch, so their story was believable.
After they told their capo, he took it up to my uncle Joe.
Even Andy couldn’t help me out of this one. I met my uncle Joe at a coffee shop by his house on Staten Island. By then my uncle was so old, his bodyguards had to practically carry him to the table. When he ate, it was a disgusting mess the way he drooled. Because he was half deaf, you had to lean in to “his ear and shout. But when he spoke, he was as sharp as ever. When we sat at the table, he said, “Tell me the fucking “fucking truth. Did you rob those guys?”
“Yeah, I did. I pretended like I had bearer bonds to sell them.”
There was no way I would tell my uncle I had set these guys up in a drug deal.
My uncle looked at me for a couple of seconds like he forgot who I was. His eyes got very dull. But then the lights flashed back on. He said, “You got to pay their money back and give me an extra ten percent for the trouble you made.”
“Okay,” I said.
My uncle still looked at me. He had cream cheese all over his face from the bagel he was trying to eat. But his mind was as evil as ever. He said, “Jon, something ain’t right. I don’t believe none of this trash about bearer bonds. Don’t bullshit my ass here.”
Andy and I thought we were the smart, new Italians. But the old mustache Italians, like my uncle Joe, even with his brain half gone, could not be fooled.
What could I do? I told him these guys wanted drugs, and I robbed them.
My uncle Joe actually smiled. “You’re a little motherfucker. You’re a cocksucking prick. “You do this all time, I’m sure. And you “don’t give me a cut?”
I told him the truth, that anything I did I paid a cut to Andy, and he always pushed this up to the family. I did not pay the IRS, but I paid Gambino.
My uncle did not want to hear how loyal I was. He said, “Jon, next time you rip somebody off, I don’t give a fuck if it’s drugs, or if you take teeth out of their mouth, you bring me my fucking end, you little prick.”
Then he asked, “How much money have you made in the last year robbing people like this?”
I told him I’d made $100,000 in robberies.
“That means you’ve made at least three hundred thousand,” he said. “I’m going to teach you a lesson. From now on, you steal any money in the street, I’m your partner. I want twenty-five percent off the top.”
That old prick. My uncle Joe was shaking me down. The man had no heart.
Just like the Mafia guys I ripped off couldn’t tell their bosses they were into drugs, I also couldn’t say nothing about my uncle shaking me down for my drug rip-offs. Drugs is what “really fucked up the Mafia. They made all these idiotic rules against “them, and then everybody went crazy scheming against each other. The Mafia should have known better. All the old guys got their start when the American government tried to enforce Prohibition. They saw how idiotic that was. Then they went and made a Prohibition of their own against drugs.
I’ve never liked rules. I am a criminal because I hate rules. But there I was sitting across from this old fucker, my uncle, telling him I’d follow his rules. I saw no choice at the time. I was a part of the family.”
HairyKnuckles wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:43 am
Cabrini, the rule most bosses impose is don´t deal with drugs. That means that no member is allowed to deal or to finance drug deals. In reality, that has nothing to do with morals but rather with safety for the boss or for the Family. Staying away from drug trafficking reduces the risk of hefty sentences and becoming a government witness. It´s somewhat ironic, because many bosses were themselves in the drug trade while they were just soldiers or captains. The temptation for many of these guys is overwhelming and the bosses basically can´t stop them. What is he supposed to do when finding out that half the members of his Family is in the drug trade?
Mighty, something you must keep in mind is (and it goes with rape convictions too) that while being just an associate, the individual can get away with. it. It´s when he becomes made, that he rules applys to him. Why would an associate be inclined to follow Cosa Nostra rules if he literally is not a member of the organization? When becoming made, the individual has gone through a process of training, a cleansing (for lack of a better word) to become a new man. That´s why they sometimes refer to becoming made as being baptized. I hope you understand what I´m trying to say here. Santoro was most likely not made in the 1940s but later.
A good example of the associate dealing theory is Angelo Ruggerio's brother-(Salvatore, name?)
He was not made, so he could deal H in kilos without rtetribution from Castellano.
However, Gene Gotti and Angelo were made, so the 'no deal' rule applied to them.
John, Sr. was taking the tribute from the H, so he is held responsible by Big Paul also.
As far as Lucchese/Tony Ducks outlawing the sale drugs by members, it seems ludicrous since Ormento was
doing it. The edict also makes sense from a self preservation standpoint. Madonna was an associate when he was dealing.
But if we look at most families, there was a specific crew that handled narcotics- Detroit w/Quassarano & Polizzi, etc.
These crews specialized in the trade; therefore, as a result of their skills, they were less likely
to get caught and the trade was controlled carefully. The way Angelo Ruggerio was dealing was extremely careless.
Talking openly on a home landline and in your kitchen clearly shows he did not have the specialized skills to not get caught.
He should have never been dealing kilos of heroin. He was a bust waiting to happen.
Did Casso ever tell the feds exactly what happened to Buddy Luongo? Who murdered him? Was it a Brooklyn Hit team that set him up etc? I doubt it was someone from the Bronx that killed Luongo. Ricciardi's testimony said that the Bronx faction was beside themselves when Luongo disappeared. Leads me to believe that it was not someone from the Bronx that pulled the trigger on Luongo.
Rocco wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:00 pm
Did Casso ever tell the feds exactly what happened to Buddy Luongo? Who murdered him? Was it a Brooklyn Hit team that set him up etc? I doubt it was someone from the Bronx that killed Luongo. Ricciardi's testimony said that the Bronx faction was beside themselves when Luongo disappeared. Leads me to believe that it was not someone from the Bronx that pulled the trigger on Luongo.
Casso said they set up a meeting with him in Brooklyn and Amuso shot him in the head.
Rocco wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:00 pm
Did Casso ever tell the feds exactly what happened to Buddy Luongo? Who murdered him? Was it a Brooklyn Hit team that set him up etc? I doubt it was someone from the Bronx that killed Luongo. Ricciardi's testimony said that the Bronx faction was beside themselves when Luongo disappeared. Leads me to believe that it was not someone from the Bronx that pulled the trigger on Luongo.
Apparently dom carbucci and bobby amuso clipped him. I can’t find anything on carbucci, besides his alleged role in the Luongo hit.
