Speculating who the new Gambino underboss will be

[Frank]

Didn't Felice say that he heard Mannino was underboss and Cali was consigliere?

Yes he did, and there were rumors about Cali and his position for years. Someone even posted that he had been shelved. I don't know where they read that. LE and Capeci had Cali as underboss till his death.

[TommyGambino]

What about when nick corozzo gets out in 2020? Could he be a candidate?

He’ll be 80 when he gets out so I doubt he’d take that position. But i could be wrong.

Everything points to him jumping straight back in, he's a lifer. Not sure why so many people think age is an issue unless you've completely lost your marbles.

[eboli]

Corozzo is old school. He's a lifer no doubt, but father time is undefeated. He's up there in age and very few people are blessed to be Sonny Franzese in their old age. It's worth to note he'll be out in less than a year and as gohn said, he's in a facility that makes it possible for him to keep an ear on the street if he wants to. Who knows, we might be looking at another late bloomer like Madonna.

[Frank]

Didn't Felice say that he heard Mannino was underboss and Cali was consigliere?

Maybe Felice's source is right, but LE has Cali as under boss. So I'm going with LE. Rumors of Cali being demoted exactly 2 years ago started. Around same time Vernace died. Maybe the did move him to consigliere. I myself had a hard time believing that Vernace was consigliere, I believe he had been of the streets since 2011. But LE and Capeci had him as consigliere since Cefalu took over till he died 2 years ago. I have just been going with what LE and Capeci have stated. It's just another LCN leadership can of worms.

[Camo]

Didn't Felice say that he heard Mannino was underboss and Cali was consigliere?

Maybe Felice's source is right, but LE has Cali as under boss. So I'm going with LE. Rumors of Cali being demoted exactly 2 years ago started. Around same time Vernace died. Maybe the did move him to consigliere. I myself had a hard time believing that Vernace was consigliere, I believe he had been of the streets since 2011. But LE and Capeci had him as consigliere since Cefalu took over till he died 2 years ago. I have just been going with what LE and Capeci have stated. It's just another LCN leadership can of worms.

Vernace was on a Ruling Panel prior to 2011, it's possible he had been Consig as well since then and we just didn't find out until then. Don't think Capeci or LE told us the start date, correct me if i'm wrong though this was a long time ago now.

[Frank]

Didn't Felice say that he heard Mannino was underboss and Cali was consigliere?

Maybe Felice's source is right, but LE has Cali as under boss. So I'm going with LE. Rumors of Cali being demoted exactly 2 years ago started. Around same time Vernace died. Maybe the did move him to consigliere. I myself had a hard time believing that Vernace was consigliere, I believe he had been of the streets since 2011. But LE and Capeci had him as consigliere since Cefalu took over till he died 2 years ago. I have just been going with what LE and Capeci have stated. It's just another LCN leadership can of worms.

Vernace was on a Ruling Panel prior to 2011, it's possible he had been Consig as well since then and we just didn't find out until then. Don't think Capeci or LE told us the start date, correct me if i'm wrong though this was a long time ago now.

Yes and when I posted ,I thought about that, and you are right I believe that they didn't necessarily say that he became consigliere when Cefalu took over, it could have been before. So there was never a report of him either being replaced or being or an acting. For all we know he could of been acting for JoJo Corazzo. I still am not 100 per cent sure he wasn't on the street on bail.

[JohnnyS]

Do we have any info on who replaced John Gambino on the panel or if the panel even exists now? Think it was Capeci that wrote it was acting as a layer between the admin (Cefalu, Cali) and the streets. Sonny Juliano and Anthony Gurino were reported to be on it.

[Camo]

Didn't Felice say that he heard Mannino was underboss and Cali was consigliere?

Maybe Felice's source is right, but LE has Cali as under boss. So I'm going with LE. Rumors of Cali being demoted exactly 2 years ago started. Around same time Vernace died. Maybe the did move him to consigliere. I myself had a hard time believing that Vernace was consigliere, I believe he had been of the streets since 2011. But LE and Capeci had him as consigliere since Cefalu took over till he died 2 years ago. I have just been going with what LE and Capeci have stated. It's just another LCN leadership can of worms.

Vernace was on a Ruling Panel prior to 2011, it's possible he had been Consig as well since then and we just didn't find out until then. Don't think Capeci or LE told us the start date, correct me if i'm wrong though this was a long time ago now.

Yes and when I posted ,I thought about that, and you are right I believe that they didn't necessarily say that he became consigliere when Cefalu took over, it could have been before. So there was never a report of him either being replaced or being or an acting. For all we know he could of been acting for JoJo Corazzo. I still am not 100 per cent sure he wasn't on the street on bail.

Was Vernace a Corozzo guy or was he closer to the Gotti's? If it was the former it'd make sense for him to be acting or possibly replace JoJo as Consig. JoJo was in jail since 2008 which i believe is around the time Vernace was said to have joined a ruling panel.

[B.]

Was Vernace a Corozzo guy or was he closer to the Gotti's? If it was the former it'd make sense for him to be acting or possibly replace JoJo as Consig. JoJo was in jail since 2008 which i believe is around the time Vernace was said to have joined a ruling panel.

Old post from JD that gives background on Vernace:

Vernace was an associate in Carmine Fatico's crew in the 1970s, on-record with Anthony Ruggiano.

After Ruggiano sponsored Nicholas Corozzo for membership the two had a falling out. Corozzo wanted his brothers and several other associates moved over to him, and initially there was an agreement that in return Ruggiano would be paid $100,000 so the loanshark operation they had together would be given over as well. A meeting was held with Aniello Dellacroce and the decision went against Ruggiano. No payment was required and the operation went to Corozzo, along with a few dozen associates formerly under Ruggiano. This included Vernace, the Trucchios and many others. Ruggiano had brought the Corozzos into the Family, and he felt betrayed by this and held a grudge against their crew from that point forward.

After Joseph Corozzo was made Vernace reported to him. Around Fall 1996 Corozzo wanted to propose Vernace and John Setaro for membership but was only allowed one and went with Setaro. The exact date for Vernace's induction isn't available but it happened no later than early February 1999. He was released from prison re the Shamrock murder indictment January 21 of that year, so it could have been right after that, or around the time of his actual arrest in that case the prior November.

At one point when he was still an associate, Vernace was overheard telling one of his people that once he was made he was going to immediately be upped to acting captain for John Gambino. No other information on this. Whatever the situation was, throughout this time he was closely associated with the Gambino's Sicilian guys and eventually represented the Gambino interests in the seasonal baccarat games.

Some other info I had previously posted about Vernace's role in the Gambino family:

- Bobby Vernace's detention memo, from 2011, claims Vernace is a longstanding member and captain who has been close to JoJo Crozzo (ID'd as consigliere) since the 1970s.

- Vernace was elevated to a ruling panel along with captains John Gambino and Daniel Marino in 2008. This panel was believed to have been created after the entire administration was arrested (acting boss Jackie D'Amico, acting underboss Domenico Cefalu, consigliere JoJo Corozzo).

- As far back as 1989, Vernace was seen visiting the Ravenite and he's been seen at at least 20 weddings and wakes associated with organized crime. One of these is the 1992 wake of John Gotti's father, as well as John Gotti's wake in 2002.

- In 2006, the wake for Vernace's sister was attended by members of Vernace's crew, acting underboss Cefalu, consigliere Corozzo, and more than a dozen other captains and soldiers.

- Vernace used his Queens cafes as a base for meetings and gambling operations. One of these cafes was raided and gambling machines were seized, but Vernace and "multiple captains and soldiers" were found meeting in the cafe. Vernace's brother Michael, a family associate, was also there and believed to be in charge of the gambling machines.

[Camo]

Thanks B. Wasn't aware of him being close to John Gambino that makes it sound like he very well could have became Consig when those guys came to power if it was before he was jailed, if not he likely replaced JoJo or was Acting for him.

[slimshady_007]

Was Vernace a Corozzo guy or was he closer to the Gotti's? If it was the former it'd make sense for him to be acting or possibly replace JoJo as Consig. JoJo was in jail since 2008 which i believe is around the time Vernace was said to have joined a ruling panel.

Old post from JD that gives background on Vernace:

Vernace was an associate in Carmine Fatico's crew in the 1970s, on-record with Anthony Ruggiano.

After Ruggiano sponsored Nicholas Corozzo for membership the two had a falling out. Corozzo wanted his brothers and several other associates moved over to him, and initially there was an agreement that in return Ruggiano would be paid $100,000 so the loanshark operation they had together would be given over as well. A meeting was held with Aniello Dellacroce and the decision went against Ruggiano. No payment was required and the operation went to Corozzo, along with a few dozen associates formerly under Ruggiano. This included Vernace, the Trucchios and many others. Ruggiano had brought the Corozzos into the Family, and he felt betrayed by this and held a grudge against their crew from that point forward.

After Joseph Corozzo was made Vernace reported to him. Around Fall 1996 Corozzo wanted to propose Vernace and John Setaro for membership but was only allowed one and went with Setaro. The exact date for Vernace's induction isn't available but it happened no later than early February 1999. He was released from prison re the Shamrock murder indictment January 21 of that year, so it could have been right after that, or around the time of his actual arrest in that case the prior November.

At one point when he was still an associate, Vernace was overheard telling one of his people that once he was made he was going to immediately be upped to acting captain for John Gambino. No other information on this. Whatever the situation was, throughout this time he was closely associated with the Gambino's Sicilian guys and eventually represented the Gambino interests in the seasonal baccarat games.

Some other info I had previously posted about Vernace's role in the Gambino family:

- Bobby Vernace's detention memo, from 2011, claims Vernace is a longstanding member and captain who has been close to JoJo Crozzo (ID'd as consigliere) since the 1970s.

- Vernace was elevated to a ruling panel along with captains John Gambino and Daniel Marino in 2008. This panel was believed to have been created after the entire administration was arrested (acting boss Jackie D'Amico, acting underboss Domenico Cefalu, consigliere JoJo Corozzo).

- As far back as 1989, Vernace was seen visiting the Ravenite and he's been seen at at least 20 weddings and wakes associated with organized crime. One of these is the 1992 wake of John Gotti's father, as well as John Gotti's wake in 2002.

- In 2006, the wake for Vernace's sister was attended by members of Vernace's crew, acting underboss Cefalu, consigliere Corozzo, and more than a dozen other captains and soldiers.

- Vernace used his Queens cafes as a base for meetings and gambling operations. One of these cafes was raided and gambling machines were seized, but Vernace and "multiple captains and soldiers" were found meeting in the cafe. Vernace's brother Michael, a family associate, was also there and believed to be in charge of the gambling machines.

Did jojo have his own crew or was he in Nicky’s crew?

[B.]

Thanks B. Wasn't aware of him being close to John Gambino that makes it sound like he very well could have became Consig when those guys came to power if it was before he was jailed, if not he likely replaced JoJo or was Acting for him.

My take on him, which is always open to revision, is that he was somewhat of a halfway point between a couple of the dominant factions at the time which is why he was seen as a good fit for consigliere. Though Vernace came up around Ruggiano/Corozzos, mingled with the Gotti faction, and was not a true "zip", he had a Sicilian background and was close to the Gambino and Conte/Cefalu crews. If the family was trying to find a common denominator between leading factions, he seemed to be it.

Jackie D'Amico was similar in that he had been captain over both an old Sicilian-American crew in addition to the 18th avenue "zip" crew while Gambino was away, but was close to the Gotti faction. It's not surprising to me that D'Amico and Vernace were family leaders during these periods.

[Rocco]

I think DAmico is out due to age and health issues.

[TommyGambino]

GREAT posts as usual B

[Camo]

Thanks B. Wasn't aware of him being close to John Gambino that makes it sound like he very well could have became Consig when those guys came to power if it was before he was jailed, if not he likely replaced JoJo or was Acting for him.

My take on him, which is always open to revision, is that he was somewhat of a halfway point between a couple of the dominant factions at the time which is why he was seen as a good fit for consigliere. Though Vernace came up around Ruggiano/Corozzos, mingled with the Gotti faction, and was not a true "zip", he had a Sicilian background and was close to the Gambino and Conte/Cefalu crews. If the family was trying to find a common denominator between leading factions, he seemed to be it.

Jackie D'Amico was similar in that he had been captain over both an old Sicilian-American crew in addition to the 18th avenue "zip" crew while Gambino was away, but was close to the Gotti faction. It's not surprising to me that D'Amico and Vernace were family leaders during these periods.

Great post. I've always felt this was the most likely situation with the unknown third member on the Admin if there is one. Have always been a bit skeptical that it was Mannino since it'd seem like all three positions where held by one area of the Family, although Cali's connections to D'amico could be that i suppose. I remember Felice speculating that Lenny DiMaria could be Consig at one point because he was at that party, personally something like that would make more sense to me with his close connections to the Corozzo's. Of course we'll just have to hope something comes out to clear this up.

Should mention i remember Pogo and a few others saying that we think of families as a group of rival factions a bit too much when that's not always the case, and even if it was at one point relationships change these guys want to make money above all else so that stuff does get put to side at times. So we may be looking at the Gambino's in the wrong way. Anyway, this thread is great, should check the FBI Files section out more i always forget it's there, crazy that this info was sitting there for months undiscussed.